How the Chiefs Blew a Dynasty Window (in short)

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

We had the best QB in the history of the NFL on a rookie deal making no money.

We wasted 1 year letting Alex Smith play QB

We wasted the next year by not moving on from Bob Sutton

We wasted our opportunity to go all in money wise while Mahomes was making no money by using the dollars on Frank Clark, Anthony Hitchens, and Tyrann Matheiu. Also stupidly spending valuable 1st round resources on Frank Clark and CEH (next picks in the draft were WR Tee Higgins and WR Michael Pittman JR).

Chris Jones deal is proving to be a bust as well, although i absolutely love the dude and would have payed him. There won't be a 100% hit rate in the draft, but the pick of Hardman over stud WR's DK Metcalf and Terry Mcclaurin are badly hurting the team.

Sammy Watkin didn't really live up to his 15 mil a year deals either, but we needed weapons, i will forgive this one similar to the Chris Jones situation.

In short its not hard to imagine a scenerio where the chiefs win 3 or 4 superbowls in this window by using the resources spent on frank clark to get 2 or 3 respectable players, the resources spent on CEH to get 1 decent offensive weapon instead of a below average RB, and the resources spend on hitchens and mathieu to get some guys that... well i dont know maybe would have prevented sorenson and niemann from ever playing.

Thank God one of the greatest QB's in nfl history Mahomes led us on that amazing comeback to defeat the 49ers so we at least got 1 championship to the city.

I know Brett Veach is credited for bring Mahomes here, and for that he will always be an all time great, but lets not forget Dorsey was still the GM at the time of that draft selection. Now im not huge Dorsey fan, but the players on this team that matter were selected while Dorsey was here. Veach, while he did get us a superbowl and we have been to 4 straight afc champ games, has whiffed A LOT, and been bailed out by Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill.

With Hill gone it just leaves Mahomes and Kelce as difference makers, and i fear our superbowl window is shut for the time being. We need a couple stud WR's, and to rebuild the defense from suck status, to at least average. that isn't going to happen this offseason.

 

Again, thank you Veach, Andy Reed, and Mahomes for deriving us a superbowl, it just saddens me we could have easily rivaled the patriots as an even better dynasty, and now that door is officially shut.

[kkuenn 3,598]

We did not waste his first year. He was so raw he needed to sit and learn. Those we paid helped us to our first SB in 50 years. We also went to 4 straight afc championships where if not for Dee Ford it would have been 3 straight SB before we got Clark. Mahomes is still young as we see QBs into their late 30s playing well. This may very well help us contend for years to come.

Also this division is not the poor one patriots played in for 20 years. I doubt Patriots would have won as much as they did in the west.

[DieHard 2,061]

Aren’t we some spoiled bitches. If we are not happy with what the team is done in the last four years, then we would not be happy with any team. 
sure hope Charges fans are reading this and feeling very sorry for us. 

[WichitaZRide 321]

The Chiefs have Mahomes and Reid.  The Patriots had Brady and Billichick.  The patriots never had superstars, and when they did have top tier players, they were traded away before they became too expensive or began to drop off.  Yes, there was gronk, but health played into that alot as well.

Point is, good QBs and Coaches win and continue to win.  Teams win titles without having the best players in their position.  Coaching plays into this more than most realize.  

We will be okay... 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

Just now, DieHard said:

Aren’t we some spoiled bitches. If we are not happy with what the team is done in the last four years, then we would not be happy with any team. 
sure hope Charges fans are reading this and feeling very sorry for us. 

its not a matter of happy, obvious i am thrilled with the sucess of the team, heck in fact i think we were one of the best teams in the nfl dating back a few years before mahomes. But its simply the fact that WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN, was a team that was talked about as the best ever, and it just did not happen for reasons that could have easily been avoided.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

Just now, WichitaZRide said:

The Chiefs have Mahomes and Reid.  The Patriots had Brady and Billichick.  The patriots never had superstars, and when they did have top tier players, they were traded away before they became too expensive or began to drop off.  Yes, there was gronk, but health played into that alot as well.

Point is, good QBs and Coaches win and continue to win.  Teams win titles without having the best players in their position.  Coaching plays into this more than most realize.  

We will be okay... 

Billichick and Brady also had a 20 year window of ZERO resistance from within their division, they had a free pass to the AFC championship where all they had to do was either beat the Colts for about 10 years, and recently they had to beat the Chiefs.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

We did not waste his first year. He was so raw he needed to sit and learn. Those we paid helped us to our first SB in 50 years. We also went to 4 straight afc championships where if not for Dee Ford it would have been 3 straight SB before we got Clark. Mahomes is still young as we see QBs into their late 30s playing well. This may very well help us contend for years to come.

Except that in his rookie year when Mahomes played the last game of the season is was clear he was ready, and when we lose to the steelers the next week because we dont' score a single touchdown its hard to argue Smith should have been playing.

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Billichick and Brady also had a 20 year window of ZERO resistance from within their division, they had a free pass to the AFC championship where all they had to do was either beat the Colts for about 10 years, and recently they had to beat the Chiefs.

Yup..Reid is not Bellichck! I think we've all witnessed that. I'm old school, and believe in the whole mantra that Defense wins championships. The year we won the SB, our defense was middle of the pack. We have to rebuild our defense and Reid has to actually start coaching again now. 

[kkuenn 3,598]

6 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Except that in his rookie year when Mahomes played the last game of the season is was clear he was ready, and when we lose to the steelers the next week because we dont' score a single touchdown its hard to argue Smith should have been playing.

He played against back ups too in some of the positions and a weak Denver team. A game where he did not throw a single td.

[DieHard 2,061]

Just now, CranjisMcbasketball said:

its not a matter of happy, obvious i am thrilled with the sucess of the team, heck in fact i think we were one of the best teams in the nfl dating back a few years before mahomes. But its simply the fact that WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN, was a team that was talked about as the best ever, and it just did not happen for reasons that could have easily been avoided.

Only our QB was talked about as the best in the NFL. CB/S group has always been below average with one All Pro. LBs we’re not good until this year. Interior OL has been horrible until this year. RBs and WRs have been below average except for Hill and Hunt. DL has been pretty pedestrian besides Jones. 
 

Only Reid and Pat could have taken this roster to Super Bowl favorites, IMO. 
 

 

[Thegoatee 1,780]

[WichitaZRide 321]

Just now, CranjisMcbasketball said:

its not a matter of happy, obvious i am thrilled with the sucess of the team, heck in fact i think we were one of the best teams in the nfl dating back a few years before mahomes. But its simply the fact that WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN, was a team that was talked about as the best ever, and it just did not happen for reasons that could have easily been avoided.

the problem is that you are playing Monday morning QB with this stuff.  Anyone can play "what if" years later.  Every team has bad contracts and draft picks that don't pan out.  Just about every contract issue or draft pick you highlighted above was universally accepted and applauded by the fan base and by the media.  

I do agree with our coaching issues though.  Sutton should have been gone a year earlier, and spags should be gone now.  EB should have not been given the power he was given last season.  

But the bottom line its really easy to knit pick after the fact that a GM that makes literally thousands of decisions wiffed on a few.  The fact that after 50 years of futility outside a couple of playoff wins the chiefs have 4 of the most successful consecutive seasons in NFL history obviously tells you that Veach did so much more right than he's done wrong.  And the best part is that you haven't even given him time to show you his plans to counter this move.  You've already assumed that he's literally going to do nothing and that the picks he gained aren't going to be used properly.  You can't be both a Monday Morning QB and a doomsday prepper at the same time.  Give the team 10 minutes to move forward and make its moves before declaring the world dead...  Look at the Rams...  back in 2017-2018 they were being talked about as the next big dynasty team...they had a rough patch...and then they came back and won a superbowl.  Teams reload...

[WichitaZRide 321]

12 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Except that in his rookie year when Mahomes played the last game of the season is was clear he was ready, and when we lose to the steelers the next week because we dont' score a single touchdown its hard to argue Smith should have been playing.

You mean after he had an extra 15 games to watch and learn both the offense and watch alex smith?  You mean when he played a meaningless game against one of the worst teams in the league?  Your argument here is absurd at best...

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

39 minutes ago, DieHard said:

Only our QB was talked about as the best in the NFL. CB/S group has always been below average with one All Pro. LBs we’re not good until this year. Interior OL has been horrible until this year. RBs and WRs have been below average except for Hill and Hunt. DL has been pretty pedestrian besides Jones. 
 

Only Reid and Pat could have taken this roster to Super Bowl favorites, IMO. 
 

 

you are PROVING my point. simply by not making a few of the worst possible decisions imaginable and getting some decent players to assist Reid and Pat we would have been unstoppable.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Bill would have signed a RT like Collins and found a duna KC i back while adding shuster .  Then he would have pounded the brains out of any defense that dropped 8 in coverage.  Until they came out of it he wouldn’t hesitate to pound the rock.  Reid won’t change gears and he is an awesome coach but to be one of the greatest you have to pivot and remake yourself.   
 

We won a SB and would have won another had Eric and Mitchell not gotten hurt.  This window was going to close at some point soon anyways.  Probably wasn’t planning on it this off-season but with how the rest of the west and afc have lost their minds it might be the best year to soft rebuild ( because with Mahomes we are never really out of it) and catch them paying old vets overpriced salaries for less production.  
 

Biggest catch is can Veach reload this team with talent in this draft at premium positions.   Only time will tell.  Gonna be a fun draft though!

[Calichief 3,016]

Dog shit post of the year 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

1 hour ago, WichitaZRide said:

the problem is that you are playing Monday morning QB with this stuff.  Anyone can play "what if" years later.  Every team has bad contracts and draft picks that don't pan out.  Just about every contract issue or draft pick you highlighted above was universally accepted and applauded by the fan base and by the media.  

I do agree with our coaching issues though.  Sutton should have been gone a year earlier, and spags should be gone now.  EB should have not been given the power he was given last season.  

But the bottom line its really easy to knit pick after the fact that a GM that makes literally thousands of decisions wiffed on a few.  The fact that after 50 years of futility outside a couple of playoff wins the chiefs have 4 of the most successful consecutive seasons in NFL history obviously tells you that Veach did so much more right than he's done wrong.  And the best part is that you haven't even given him time to show you his plans to counter this move.  You've already assumed that he's literally going to do nothing and that the picks he gained aren't going to be used properly.  You can't be both a Monday Morning QB and a doomsday prepper at the same time.  Give the team 10 minutes to move forward and make its moves before declaring the world dead...  Look at the Rams...  back in 2017-2018 they were being talked about as the next big dynasty team...they had a rough patch...and then they came back and won a superbowl.  Teams reload...

hey, im hoping we pull off some awesome stuff before the year starts, and we save some cap to pick up some released people during the season to boot.

my only point is essentially the frank clark deal and the CEH draft are too huge wiffs that most people hated at the time of them happening, not years later. it was fairly easy to assume they were going to flop in real time. I do realize clark "helped us" win a superbowl by having a couple clutch sacs in the post season. Advanced stats say any reasonable player would have gotten to the QB in those situations, but fact is he did make the play.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

1 hour ago, WichitaZRide said:

You mean after he had an extra 15 games to watch and learn both the offense and watch alex smith?  You mean when he played a meaningless game against one of the worst teams in the league?  Your argument here is absurd at best...

if anyone here actually believes pat watching average QB alex smith play for a season is what made him the most talented QB in history then i might have to give up

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

31 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Bill would have signed a RT like Collins and found a duna KC i back while adding shuster .  Then he would have pounded the brains out of any defense that dropped 8 in coverage.  Until they came out of it he wouldn’t hesitate to pound the rock.  Reid won’t change gears and he is an awesome coach but to be one of the greatest you have to pivot and remake yourself.   
 

We won a SB and would have won another had Eric and Mitchell not gotten hurt.  This window was going to close at some point soon anyways.  Probably wasn’t planning on it this off-season but with how the rest of the west and afc have lost their minds it might be the best year to soft rebuild ( because with Mahomes we are never really out of it) and catch them paying old vets overpriced salaries for less production.  
 

Biggest catch is can Veach reload this team with talent in this draft at premium positions.   Only time will tell.  Gonna be a fun draft though!

the only response so far that makes sense to me! good post bud.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

30 minutes ago, Calichief said:

Dog shit post of the year 

valuable contribution here! 

[WichitaZRide 321]

7 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

if anyone here actually believes pat watching average QB alex smith play for a season is what made him the most talented QB in history then i might have to give up

Yeah... AVERAGE alex Smith, who in that season had 4042 passing yds (8th in the league), 26:5 TD/Int ratio, and lead the league in passer rating at 104.7.

Why even watch the Chiefs if you feel this negatively about them?

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

Just now, WichitaZRide said:

Yeah... AVERAGE alex Smith, who in that season had 4042 passing yds (8th in the league), 26:5 TD/Int ratio, and lead the league in passer rating at 104.7.

Why even watch the Chiefs if you feel this negatively about them?

on the contrary, i think im one of the few here that is so positive about where we are with mahomes and reid, that anything other than a superbowl is some sort of slight disappointment .

with all due respect to alex smith, i exaggerated to prove a point, he is above average, but the next qb after him had 50 tds, so lets not act like he was some dominating force.

[WichitaZRide 321]

Just now, CranjisMcbasketball said:

on the contrary, i think im one of the few here that is so positive about where we are with mahomes and reid, that anything other than a superbowl is some sort of slight disappointment .

with all due respect to alex smith, i exaggerated to prove a point, he is above average, but the next qb after him had 50 tds, so lets not act like he was some dominating force.

I never did...  I only feel that there aren't many other people to sit behind and learn from for a season.  What alex lacks physically he makes up for cerebrally...

I guess maybe just pump the brakes on "how the chiefs blew a dynasty" until you've actually given them time to blow the dynasty...

[sith13 1,746]

I think Dorsey/Veach and Reid have their shortcomings and not just a few. However sitting Mahomes out a year, trading away a WR wanting to be the highest paid in the position, focusing on the trenches as opposed to flashy but less important positions are very critical moves that really create a dynasty. If we tied a considerable portion of our cap to a single non-QB position we would be less likely to have consistent success. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

8 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I think Dorsey/Veach and Reid have their shortcomings and not just a few. However sitting Mahomes out a year, trading away a WR wanting to be the highest paid in the position, focusing on the trenches as opposed to flashy but less important positions are very critical moves that really create a dynasty. If we tied a considerable portion of our cap to a single non-QB position we would be less likely to have consistent success. 

Agree:

Dynasty? Andy Reid has proven he is not an elite coach. He gets out coached in and during the biggest games. Mahomes is the reason Andy has more success.

So Beli-cheat is the #1 reason NE is always competitive. If Bill was the KC head coach the Dynasty would be a reality.