Tyreek Hill vs Mecole Hardman

[sith13 1,746]

35 minutes ago, Dan4pres said:

One negative I could say about Hill is that he never really broke tackles. Hill wasn’t a big guy but was put together. For being an ex-running back, he seemed to avoid contact and run out of bounds a lot. Having said that, he was good at making catches in traffic. One advantage of having bigger WRs is the YAC being caused by breaking a tackle vs. outrunning everyone. That’s why speed AND size is what every coach wants.

I think it was more of a case of avoiding hits as opposed to not breaking tackles. Hill's definitely strong for his size but he's still a small guy, might have been trying to be smart about that fact but I also didn't like some of his runs out of bounds instead of trying to make a play. 

[reesebobby 5,662]

42 minutes ago, sith13 said:

There was some RB who ended up being the team MVP, I think he might have helped a bit too. 

That's the point a little.  Andy Reid has won many different ways and with many different people.  He was 11-5 and playoff team with Jamaal Charles being the feature of the offense.

[xen 1,010,220]

Hill has issues with getting off press and separating when corners get on him down the field.  That's why he's not tyreek.  Strength is what separates those 2.

[DieHard 2,061]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Hill has issues with getting off press and separating when corners get on him down the field.  That's why he's not tyreek.  Strength is what separates those 2.

Typo, but I agree. Dude is stacked. I hate when I hear Hill was this or that. He tracked the ball in the air, ran great routes, has mad hands (2021 as an exception) and just has a nose for where to be when the play broke down. Another underrated part of his game was to never give up. It worn defenders out. I watched Pat heave it to Watson so many times when Watson stopped and Pat kept the play alive. It looked like an over throw, but really it was a TD pass that Watkins was saving energy why Hill just said “keep up with me” if you can.

[xen 1,010,220]

13 minutes ago, DieHard said:

Typo, but I agree. Dude is stacked. I hate when I hear Hill was this or that. He tracked the ball in the air, ran great routes, has mad hands (2021 as an exception) and just has a nose for where to be when the play broke down. Another underrated part of his game was to never give up. It worn defenders out. I watched Pat heave it to Watson so many times when Watson stopped and Pat kept the play alive. It looked like an over throw, but really it was a TD pass that Watkins was saving energy why Hill just said “keep up with me” if you can.

Hill was a unicorn.  Typically speed guys break down fast and when the end comes it comes fast.  I'm not necessarily convinced that will happen as quickly with Hill as others though.  Cause you know, dude is a unicorn.  Best late pick we ever made.

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

3 hours ago, xen said:

Hill was a unicorn.  Typically speed guys break down fast and when the end comes it comes fast.  I'm not necessarily convinced that will happen as quickly with Hill as others though.  Cause you know, dude is a unicorn.  Best late pick we ever made.

It appears you are right, was trying to find a better one, but all the ones I came up with were drafted in the 3rd round, seems to be our spot, Kelce, Shields, Charles.  Jared Allen was in the 4th.  Only one I could argue was undrafted Brian Waters.  Trey Smith was in the 6th, but he appears to be on his way!

[qnet 1,150]

1 hour ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

It appears you are right, was trying to find a better one, but all the ones I came up with were drafted in the 3rd round, seems to be our spot, Kelce, Shields, Charles.  Jared Allen was in the 4th.  Only one I could argue was undrafted Brian Waters.  Trey Smith was in the 6th, but he appears to be on his way!

Wasn't Hunt a 3rd round pick as well? The 3rd round has been monstrous for the Chiefs. Hill is the only 5th round pick for the Chiefs I can think of  doing  so well.

[kkuenn 3,597]

46 minutes ago, qnet said:

Wasn't Hunt a 3rd round pick as well? The 3rd round has been monstrous for the Chiefs. Hill is the only 5th round pick for the Chiefs I can think of  doing  so well.

Brandon Carr, Dante Hall and Joe Horn were all good players we took in the 5th.

[xen 1,010,220]

Chiefs flipped the 165th pick (Hill) into 6 crazy years, 6000+ yds, 50+ TDs, Wasp and a SB trophy, and all those draft picks.  That's gonna be tough for anyone to replicate.

[Docbarnabee 225]

In games where Hill was out and Hardman got a chance to fill his role,  He did quite well.  Hardman does not have the change of direction, but he certainly has the speed to run by everyone.  Maybe this move truly lights a fire under Hardman's ass and he breaks out this year.  Could make him a shit load of cash if he does.  This year will provide all the motive you could ask for to work your ass to the bone and ball out in a big way.  I am interested to see  what he does.  

[Docbarnabee 225]

In games where Hill was out and Hardman got a chance to fill his role,  He did quite well.  Hardman does not have the change of direction, but he certainly has the speed to run by everyone.  Maybe this move truly lights a fire under Hardman's ass and he breaks out this year.  Could make him a shit load of cash if he does.  This year will provide all the motive you could ask for to work your ass to the bone and ball out in a big way.  I am interested to see  what he does.  

As for Tyreek Hill,  I think the downside of him was that Mahomes was always looking for him and often overlooked other receivers that were open.  I know Hill is great, but when teams took him away, it clearly frustrated Mahomes.  I think we could take another step forward in this offense without him.  It also takes that "Holy Shit " problem away if he gets hurt.  I think we will be forced to be a lot more versatile and deep in the receiving corp. 

 

[sith13 1,746]

3 hours ago, Docbarnabee said:

In games where Hill was out and Hardman got a chance to fill his role,  He did quite well.  Hardman does not have the change of direction, but he certainly has the speed to run by everyone.  Maybe this move truly lights a fire under Hardman's ass and he breaks out this year.  Could make him a shit load of cash if he does.  This year will provide all the motive you could ask for to work your ass to the bone and ball out in a big way.  I am interested to see  what he does.  

As for Tyreek Hill,  I think the downside of him was that Mahomes was always looking for him and often overlooked other receivers that were open.  I know Hill is great, but when teams took him away, it clearly frustrated Mahomes.  I think we could take another step forward in this offense without him.  It also takes that "Holy Shit " problem away if he gets hurt.  I think we will be forced to be a lot more versatile and deep in the receiving corp. 

 

It's definitely make or break year for Hardman but I hope Reid doesn't make the mistake of trying to replace Hill with him. Hardman is a different type of player that needs to focus on his strengths. Also I don't like the idea of Mahomes using another player like Hill, as you mentioned in the last paragraph, as it seems to be limiting the offense. I believe Reid should try to create some balance among the receivers and try to use Hardman like a legit 2nd/3rd tier WR.

[artsy 1,137]

6 minutes ago, sith13 said:

It's definitely make or break year for Hardman but I hope Reid doesn't make the mistake of trying to replace Hill with him. Hardman is a different type of player that needs to focus on his strengths. Also I don't like the idea of Mahomes using another player like Hill, as you mentioned in the last paragraph, as it seems to be limiting the offense. I believe Reid should try to create some balance among the receivers and try to use Hardman like a legit 2nd/3rd tier WR.

Exactly. Hill allowed the offense to execute in particular manner and like someone mentioned Pat relied way too much on him. Well, now there is no Hill to take the top and draw at least 2 defenders everytime. The offense will HAVE TO CHANGE. Reid has not always had a Tyreek Hll and in Pat's first year it did not really include a lot of explosive Hill plays..(just a few). 

I think the offense will be fine. And it might just be better especially if they utilize the studs up front and actually commit to running the ball with some actuall playaction...NOT RPOs.

I'm excited to see what happens. We should'nt be forced to watch Pat holding onto the ball for 15 sec waiting for either Hill or Kelce to get open...

[sith13 1,746]

2 minutes ago, artsy said:

Exactly. Hill allowed the offense to execute in particular manner and like someone mentioned Pat relied way too much on him. Well, now there is no Hill to take the top and draw at least 2 defenders everytime. The offense will HAVE TO CHANGE. Reid has not always had a Tyreek Hll and in Pat's first year it did not really include a lot of explosive Hill plays..(just a few). 

I think the offense will be fine. And it might just be better especially if they utilize the studs up front and actually commit to running the ball with some actuall playaction...NOT RPOs.

I'm excited to see what happens. We should'nt be forced to watch Pat holding onto the ball for 15 sec waiting for either Hill or Kelce to get open...

Even getting rid of the RPO will be an instant boost. I'm guessing Reid liked the idea of having a few defenders committing to Hill & Kelce but no real acceleration in the backfield and the lack of play action hurt this offense a lot. A real running game will evolve this offense.

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, sith13 said:

A real running game will evolve this offense.

Yes, this!

With pat playing within the pocket and taking what the defense gives him and real running game, IMO this offense would look really similar to the Rams' greatest show on turf or the 2003 Chiefs offense. 

[West 6,713]

Rojo is a between the tackles kinda guy.....

w