Screw Orlando Brown

[sith13 1,746]

5 hours ago, jetlord said:

Brown will play this season.  The issue is whether he plays under the tag or negotiates a multi-year deal.  I'm betting on a deal.  Brown gets security and the Chiefs gain some immediate cap space assuming the deal is structured the right way.  

I hope so. As long as his demands are reasonable I don't see any issues with the deal. Nobody cares about the tagged OT on the rookie contract so early in the season so he was bound to negotiate over the summer. Still wouldn't be surprised if he went the stupid route, not that he can, as a lot of players are demanding crazy numbers at this point. Obviously he must play out the year but you never know. 

[sith13 1,746]

Did he find an agent already? I know he probably wants to skip the OTAs and avoid any injuries at this point but this is the time of the year where they would handle the negotiations unless he's to play under the tag. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

On 5/5/2022 at 1:33 PM, DieHard said:

That would put him at #4 in $/yr average and #2 in guaranteed money. That is probably about right. Overpaid a little, but not much we can do about that. 

I sure hope not. 28th rated tackle. Chiefs are paying Thuney huge money. Trade Brown after the season and move Thuney to LT. Seems KC is stacked at guard.

[SEMO 6,811]

3 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

I sure hope not. 28th rated tackle. Chiefs are paying Thuney huge money. Trade Brown after the season and move Thuney to LT. Seems KC is stacked at guard.

Stop with the “move Thuney to LT” nonsense, please?  Thanks.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

2 minutes ago, SEMO said:

Stop with the “move Thuney to LT” nonsense, please?  Thanks.

Sorry but Its my opinion. Thats all. No need to be frustrated. If not Thuney then find a replacement in free agency. Brown is not elite. Not worth 20 million. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

Sorry but Its my opinion. Thats all. No need to be frustrated. If not Thuney then find a replacement in free agency. Brown is not elite. Not worth 20 million. 

it's one thing to have an opinion but you beat it like a dead horse that is where the frustration comes in. Everybody knows  you think  Brown is sub par  but since Veach & Co dont agree your just pissing in a fan. Write them a letter  and please once they quit laughing maybe you'll get  a response and you can post it up.

[SEMO 6,811]

2 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Sorry but Its my opinion. Thats all. No need to be frustrated. If not Thuney then find a replacement in free agency. Brown is not elite. Not worth 20 million. 

Thuney is not elite at LT either.  Definitely not over a full season.  You don’t want to pay Brown because he is the 28th ranked tackle (he is better than his ranking, btw).  But, you are fine taking an elite guard, making elite guard money, and moving him to LT.  
 

Yeah, I am sure that was Veach’s plan all along. 

JMO 🙄

[AFCWEST 1,238]

42 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

it's one thing to have an opinion but you beat it like a dead horse that is where the frustration comes in. Everybody knows  you think  Brown is sub par  but since Veach & Co dont agree your just pissing in a fan. Write them a letter  and please once they quit laughing maybe you'll get  a response and you can post it up.

You are so insightful. Yes nobody should post an opinion that goes against what the Chiefs brass has done because their shit does not ever stink. They are flawless. No discussions and please only make a point once. We should just be followers.

Yes I know they will likely sign the guy. Yes I know they are much more informed and are the pros.

Note: What about Sorenson, Neiman, D-rob, Hardman etc comments?  Must be 25,000 references? LOL

 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

12 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

it's one thing to have an opinion but you beat it like a dead horse that is where the frustration comes in. Everybody knows  you think  Brown is sub par  but since Veach & Co dont agree your just pissing in a fan. Write them a letter  and please once they quit laughing maybe you'll get  a response and you can post it up.

Are we actually sure veach and co don’t agree? Last time I checked he hasn’t been payed and there isn’t much talk of contract progress.

be interesting to see how this develops, thats for sure

[AFCWEST 1,238]

10 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Are we actually sure veach and co don’t agree? Last time I checked he hasn’t been payed and there isn’t much talk of contract progress.

be interesting to see how this develops, thats for sure

Perhaps you are on to something.  Both Hunt & Veach stated Matheu would be resigned,  yet? Who would have thought Hill would be gone? Ward gone? 

You can only pay so many guys 20 million. 

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

I sure hope not. 28th rated tackle. Chiefs are paying Thuney huge money. Trade Brown after the season and move Thuney to LT. Seems KC is stacked at guard.

The rankings don't really mean much. A decent run & pass blocking OT could rank higher than a solid pass blocking OT with questionable performance in the run game. Also good scrambling QB could make OTs look better than they actually are. However the #1 expectation from LT for us is protection of Mahomes. If the staff is happy with Brown protecting the big investment at QB then he'll get paid accordingly. I don't believe he deserves the elite LT money but the inflation in FA contracts point to such a move assuming they want to make a deal. Otherwise the plan could be to keep Brown around for a year until someone else takes over in 2023. We can't be certain of those until the negotiations begin. 

If the goal was to move Thuney to LT they would have just signed a LT instead. Thuney is making elite guard money because he's an elite guard but playing decent at LT for a game or two doesn't make a player ready to take over the position. We had Reiter do a decent job at backup OC and started a few games only to mess up the OL for 2 seasons at full time role. Not saying it would be the same with Thuney but disrupting his training to focus on another position isn't really a risk worth taking. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

6 minutes ago, sith13 said:

The rankings don't really mean much. A decent run & pass blocking OT could rank higher than a solid pass blocking OT with questionable performance in the run game. Also good scrambling QB could make OTs look better than they actually are. However the #1 expectation from LT for us is protection of Mahomes. If the staff is happy with Brown protecting the big investment at QB then he'll get paid accordingly. I don't believe he deserves the elite LT money but the inflation in FA contracts point to such a move assuming they want to make a deal. Otherwise the plan could be to keep Brown around for a year until someone else takes over in 2023. We can't be certain of those until the negotiations begin. 

If the goal was to move Thuney to LT they would have just signed a LT instead. Thuney is making elite guard money because he's an elite guard but playing decent at LT for a game or two doesn't make a player ready to take over the position. We had Reiter do a decent job at backup OC and started a few games only to mess up the OL for 2 seasons at full time role. Not saying it would be the same with Thuney but disrupting his training to focus on another position isn't really a risk worth taking. 

Good points for sure. Thuney may not be the move.  Cinn went to the SB with an awful OL. KC does not need elite OL at every position. Yes protect PM is critical. Seems PM had a very good year but still a little off, for him, last year. My point is simple. I think an adequate LT can be found in FA or the Draft vs Investing 20 million on Brown for 5 years. If he has a great season this year that would change my perception. Maybe KC will stay in that wait and see mode?

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 hour ago, SEMO said:

Thuney is not elite at LT either.  Definitely not over a full season.  You don’t want to pay Brown because he is the 28th ranked tackle (he is better than his ranking, btw).  But, you are fine taking an elite guard, making elite guard money, and moving him to LT.  
 

Yeah, I am sure that was Veach’s plan all along. 

JMO 🙄

I dont disagree with your point. I guess my point is Brown is not worth 20 million for 5 years. Find a capable replacement in the draft or FA next year. Take a wait and see approach this season. If Brown shows up elite this year then maybe give him the big bucks. I would rather invest those dollars in a pass rushing elite DE.

[sith13 1,746]

14 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Good points for sure. Thuney may not be the move.  Cinn went to the SB with an awful OL. KC does not need elite OL at every position. Yes protect PM is critical. Seems PM had a very good year but still a little off, for him, last year. My point is simple. I think an adequate LT can be found in FA or the Draft vs Investing 20 million on Brown for 5 years. If he has a great season this year that would change my perception. Maybe KC will stay in that wait and see mode?

I'm sure the staff has a good idea about his current worth and if that's much lower than his expectation then 16 million isn't that bad for a 1-year rental at LT that might have some future upside. Unless Brown proved himself worthy this season is simply a way to evaluate him further and either pay him his true worth, trade him, or let him leave in FA in 2023. 

[Okiechief1 425]

14 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

I dont disagree with your point. I guess my point is Brown is not worth 20 million for 5 years. Find a capable replacement in the draft or FA next year. Take a wait and see approach this season. If Brown shows up elite this year then maybe give him the big bucks. I would rather invest those dollars in a pass rushing elite DE.

Couple years when the cap gets around 250 +  20 for even a decent LT will seem like a bargin.  I shudder to think what guys are going to get when it gets to be 275 to 300 range 3 to 5 years down the road.  

I heard an interview about a week ago with Veach and he was asked what the offense is going to look like without Tyreek.  His response i thought was interesting.  He talked about there is alot of different ways to score points.  Said they have a great offensive line and they wanna be more balanced this year.  Called out CEH and Jones when talking about that.  If Andy really does run more this year Browns value is greater because he is a better run blocker than pass blocker.   

I will believe it when i see it but he did put that out there and i doubt he puts that out without knowing how Andy plans to handle the offense without Hill.  

[AFCWEST 1,238]

35 minutes ago, Okiechief1 said:

Couple years when the cap gets around 250 +  20 for even a decent LT will seem like a bargin.  I shudder to think what guys are going to get when it gets to be 275 to 300 range 3 to 5 years down the road.  

I heard an interview about a week ago with Veach and he was asked what the offense is going to look like without Tyreek.  His response i thought was interesting.  He talked about there is alot of different ways to score points.  Said they have a great offensive line and they wanna be more balanced this year.  Called out CEH and Jones when talking about that.  If Andy really does run more this year Browns value is greater because he is a better run blocker than pass blocker.   

I will believe it when i see it but he did put that out there and i doubt he puts that out without knowing how Andy plans to handle the offense without Hill.  

Good points. I sure hope Andy does run it way more & use those backs on screens etc. Less RPO stuff. Oline should be really good at mauling.

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, Okiechief1 said:

Couple years when the cap gets around 250 +  20 for even a decent LT will seem like a bargin.  I shudder to think what guys are going to get when it gets to be 275 to 300 range 3 to 5 years down the road.  

I heard an interview about a week ago with Veach and he was asked what the offense is going to look like without Tyreek.  His response i thought was interesting.  He talked about there is alot of different ways to score points.  Said they have a great offensive line and they wanna be more balanced this year.  Called out CEH and Jones when talking about that.  If Andy really does run more this year Browns value is greater because he is a better run blocker than pass blocker.   

I will believe it when i see it but he did put that out there and i doubt he puts that out without knowing how Andy plans to handle the offense without Hill.  

I don't think the cap is the primary concern as opposed to trust in the LT. I'm pretty sure Veach is looking for that LT that is worth 20 million in today's market, that's why he offered Williams the big contract last year. The question is whether or not Brown is that LT.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/5/19/23130851/chiefs-chose-future-flexibility-over-tyreek-hill

As it turned out, it was a telling one. The sixth-year GM continued to say that the organization had two goals entering the offseason: help the defense and find a way to keep wide receiver Tyreek Hill.

The Chiefs achieved one of those goals, and the other — well, things changed as the offseason went along. We have addressed that on these pages before, but Veach provided further details during his call with Eisen.

“We had Orlando (Brown) on the (franchise) tag, and we wanted to take care of Tyreek and then kind of address the defense,” started Veach. “Then, the way the market shifted with the receivers and the way the market shifted with the veteran defensive linemen, we kind of altered our course of action and decide to go through the draft almost entirely.”

Seven of 10 members of the Chiefs’ 2022 draft class play defense.

“Again, I think we’re happy with the way it turned out — but there’s going to be a lot of young guys you see on the defensive side, but I think we’re very hopeful that these guys are going to be who we think they are.”

On the books, the Brown tag cost the Chiefs roughly $16.6 million. Edge rushers like Chandler Jones, Von Miller and Randy Gregory priced themselves out of Kansas City, agreeing to lucrative deals with other teams.

“On the flip side, when the market went to where it went, if we did that, in addition to carrying an Orlando Brown tag, in addition to the contracts that we have, then there would be no way to address the defense — to do anything on the defensive side. So it was either an all-or-nothing scenario.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

And on the other side, Veach remains optimistic about the future in Kansas City.

“I was happy we were able to get resources to help continue to build this thing for the next five, 10 years. And I think that we’ve taken the right step, and that won’t be easy, and we’re going to have a lot of young guys play football for us this fall. There’s going to be a transition period, but after the draft ended and from the time [the young players] have been here through the rookie minicamp, we’ve been certainly impressed with them and their attitude, so we’re excited about getting this thing rolling.”

 

Veach explained that the package the Miami Dolphins were willing to send the Chiefs (which wound up being five draft picks over the next two years) would allow them — in 2022 — to take as many defensive players as they did, all the while opening up the salary cap for years to come. The general manager added that he expects the Chiefs to be more prominent players in next offseason’s free agency period.

 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

5 hours ago, oldtimer said:

it's one thing to have an opinion but you beat it like a dead horse that is where the frustration comes in. Everybody knows  you think  Brown is sub par  but since Veach & Co dont agree your just pissing in a fan. Write them a letter  and please once they quit laughing maybe you'll get  a response and you can post it up.

I just noticed you started this thread. Thats funny. Start a thread and then complain its being discussed. LOL

[kkuenn 3,597]

5 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Sorry but Its my opinion. Thats all. No need to be frustrated. If not Thuney then find a replacement in free agency. Brown is not elite. Not worth 20 million. 

Well it worked so well with Jones.... seriously he can spot play there, but what happens if he is not good or just average? Then our LT is weak as well as the LG replacement most likely in place of Thuney who is great there already.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

6 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Well it worked so well with Jones.... seriously he can spot play there, but what happens if he is not good or just average? Then our LT is weak as well as the LG replacement most likely in place of Thuney who is great there already.

Yes could well be correct. Again to clarify my point : find a replacement in next years draft or a free agent rather than 20 million and 4 or 5 years. If Brown is all world this season I will change my opinion. I hope he is. If not trade him. 

Note; The Jones thing has nothing to do with other players and moves. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

Yes could well be correct. Again to clarify my point : find a replacement in next years draft or a free agent rather than 20 million and 4 or 5 years. If Brown is all world this season I will change my opinion. I hope he is. If not trade him. 

It was said earlier, he is tajing6 a chance as are the Chiefs for a tagged 1 year play. Chiefs though it is smart imo. If he plays well, then he can justify a 20 mil contract. If not, he can leave if he does not like our offering and get a good comp or we can tag again and trade as he still will then be worth about what he is asking yearly average. Let him play it out, unless he if course signs for 16 to 17 mil beforehand. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 minute ago, kkuenn said:

It was said earlier, he is tajing6 a chance as are the Chiefs for a tagged 1 year play. Chiefs though it is smart imo. If he plays well, then he can justify a 20 mil contract. If not, he can leave if he does not like our offering and get a good comp or we can tag again and trade as he still will then be worth about what he is asking yearly average. Let him play it out, unless he if course signs for 16 to 17 mil beforehand. 

So we agree in principle. I would not sign him to even 17 mill. Let him prove himself this season Then see what happens. Who knows. KC has like 10-12 picks next year. Maybe they trade up for a left tackle.

[kkuenn 3,597]

10 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

So we agree in principle. I would not sign him to even 17 mill. Let him prove himself this season Then see what happens. Who knows. KC has like 10-12 picks next year. Maybe they trade up for a left tackle.

If he does not do well as a pass blocker, there are some hungry run blocking teams in need of a LT. Get another pick and trade his ass then.