Screw Orlando Brown

[jetlord 10,209]

8 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Tagged them traded. Get a draft pick or better yet a LT in FA for less.

Maybe.  Not sure if another team would take on Brown and give up a worthwhile draft pick in addition to paying a long term contract..  Seems too much like a Frank Clark type deal. 

[sith13 1,746]

Curious about the market for OBJ. He's good but not great, just turned down the highest LT contract in terms of average. Not sure if any GM would be on board to give up prime picks just to take on this whole mess. 

[jetlord 10,209]

10 hours ago, sith13 said:

Curious about the market for OBJ. He's good but not great, just turned down the highest LT contract in terms of average. Not sure if any GM would be on board to give up prime picks just to take on this whole mess. 

The numbers could be interpreted as highest paid LT, but actually, it was worth about $19.5 million/year after the Chiefs released or renegotiated after three years.  It's all about guarantees and Brown's offer wasn't high in that area.  Chiefs were smart not to tie themselves to a long term top pay contract until Brown proves he's a top five LT. 

[sith13 1,746]

13 hours ago, jetlord said:

The numbers could be interpreted as highest paid LT, but actually, it was worth about $19.5 million/year after the Chiefs released or renegotiated after three years.  It's all about guarantees and Brown's offer wasn't high in that area.  Chiefs were smart not to tie themselves to a long term top pay contract until Brown proves he's a top five LT. 

Definitely a good move by the Chiefs but I don't see Brown valued any higher than that. As you said the offer was 19.5 per year which would make him the 5th highest paid OL in the NFL while making it look like the highest on paper for ego purposes. 

I don't see him getting anything better than that unless he takes a huge leap and more importantly I don't think it'll make giving up picks for him any easier for most GMs around the league. 

[jetlord 10,209]

9 hours ago, sith13 said:

Definitely a good move by the Chiefs but I don't see Brown valued any higher than that. As you said the offer was 19.5 per year which would make him the 5th highest paid OL in the NFL while making it look like the highest on paper for ego purposes. 

I don't see him getting anything better than that unless he takes a huge leap and more importantly I don't think it'll make giving up picks for him any easier for most GMs around the league. 

So, assuming he plays better this season than he did last year, especially the second half of the season, would you tag him again for around $20 million and try to trade him, tag and keep, sign him long term for $22 million per, or let him walk for a probable third rounder?

[AFCWEST 1,238]

4 minutes ago, jetlord said:

So, assuming he plays better this season than he did last year, especially the second half of the season, would you tag him again for around $20 million and try to trade him, tag and keep, sign him long term for $22 million per, or let him walk for a probable third rounder?

tag and trade. other positions will need the big bucks . I dont see paying top left tackle money regardless of his performance.

[jetlord 10,209]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

tag and trade. other positions will need the big bucks . I dont see paying top left tackle money regardless of his performance.

Fair enough, but who plays LT for the Chiefs and for how much?

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, jetlord said:

Fair enough, but who plays LT for the Chiefs and for how much?

Im not a fortune teller. There will be decent guys available. Lots of teams win big without the best LT. Im ok with an average to slightly above average LT. 

[jetlord 10,209]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

Im not a fortune teller. There will be decent guys available. Lots of teams win big without the best LT. Im ok with an average to slightly above average LT. 

Isn't that what the Chiefs have now?

Barring a complete lost season, the Chiefs won't be in position to draft a sure fire tackle next spring and above average players at that position don't come cheap.  I'm not so willing to cast away Brown, who still has upside potential without having a solid replacement.  He could be top ten and still worth a good contract. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

4 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Isn't that what the Chiefs have now?

Barring a complete lost season, the Chiefs won't be in position to draft a sure fire tackle next spring and above average players at that position don't come cheap.  I'm not so willing to cast away Brown, who still has upside potential without having a solid replacement.  He could be top ten and still worth a good contract. 

There will be other guys available. Heck Chicago just added a decent guy last week. This OMG we must have a great player to protect the franchise is an overreaction. Give me an average LT and put more money into several other pieces. You cant have All Pro at every position. The cap is real.

[THEWIZARD 247]

2 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Im not a fortune teller. There will be decent guys available. Lots of teams win big without the best LT. Im ok with an average to slightly above average LT. 

You are OK with having an average LT protecting arguably the most valuable player in the league? We definitely disagree there.

This is a prove it year for him. He showed a lot of improvement last year. If he continues to improve, I think they should pay him, within reason. Can't blame a guy for betting on himself. It's just business.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

10 minutes ago, THEWIZARD said:

You are OK with having an average LT protecting arguably the most valuable player in the league? We definitely disagree there.

This is a prove it year for him. He showed a lot of improvement last year. If he continues to improve, I think they should pay him, within reason. Can't blame a guy for betting on himself. It's just business.

Yep. Average is ok with me. NFL QBs are well protected. PM moves well. Give me a LT that pass protects decent. Does not matter if he run blocks well because under Reid Kc will never run the ball often enough. How many NFL QBs really get knocked out with a career ending injury from a pass rush hit? Cant pay everybody. The old bs " but the cap is going up so all is good" is fantasy. Every team benefits when the cap goes up and a team like the Raiders can kill you with a completely over priced signing. Ad Miami to that list with the Hill money.

At this point: I would put the money into a quality proven young pass rusher and defense over all.

[oldtimer 8,686]

25 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Im not a fortune teller. There will be decent guys available. Lots of teams win big without the best LT. Im ok with an average to slightly above average LT. 

Yet you say there will be "decent" players available.

 Define "Decent" please

[oldtimer 8,686]

33 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

tag and trade. other positions will need the big bucks . I dont see paying top left tackle money regardless of his performance.

even if he makes  ALL PRO?

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Yet you say there will be "decent" players available.

 Define "Decent" please

Average or a bit above average. Nobody knows , at this point , who will be cut, free agent, drafted or available by trade.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 minute ago, oldtimer said:

even if he makes  ALL PRO?

Absolutely. Cant pay everyone. 

[DieHard 2,061]

1 minute ago, oldtimer said:

even if he makes  ALL PRO?

If he balls out at an All Pro level, his age will make him very valuable.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, DieHard said:

If he balls out at an All Pro level, his age will make him very valuable.

True but it does not mean KC has to keep him at huge expense. See Tyrek Hill.

LT is not that important to me. KC can win with a decent LT. Does not need to pay elite money.

[THEWIZARD 247]

36 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Yep. Average is ok with me. NFL QBs are well protected. PM moves well. Give me a LT that pass protects decent. Does not matter if he run blocks well because under Reid Kc will never run the ball often enough. How many NFL QBs really get knocked out with a career ending injury from a pass rush hit? Cant pay everybody. The old bs " but the cap is going up so all is good" is fantasy. Every team benefits when the cap goes up and a team like the Raiders can kill you with a completely over priced signing. Ad Miami to that list with the Hill money.

At this point: I would put the money into a quality proven young pass rusher and defense over all.

Wow. So you don't want to pay for a quality LT, widely regarded as the 2nd most important position of an offense. ESPECIALLY with all the pass rushers in the AFCW, but you will pay for a "quality young pass rusher"? What do you think THAT will cost? And look at the draft this year. It seemed to me like there are a lot more quality pass rushers than LTs . Karlaftis was the 5th ranked one in the draft and KC!got him on the 1st round.

7 out of 10 of their draft picks were defensive players, including 2 1st rounders and 3 in the first 2 rounds. I think they've done a pretty good job of rebuilding their defense. 

You may not think that a quality LT is vital, but I'd like you to show me ANY .quality GM, HC, OC, or QB that would agree with you. 

*crickets*

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, THEWIZARD said:

Wow. So you don't want to pay for a quality LT, widely regarded as the 2nd most important position of an offense, but you will pay for a "quality young pass rusher"? What do you think THAT will cost? And look at the draft this year. It seemed to me like there are a lot more quality pass rushers than LTs 7 out of 10 of their draft picks were defensive players. I think they've done a pretty good job of rebuilding their defense. Karlaftis was ranked the 5th best pass rusher, and he was a 1st rounder.

You may not think that a quality LT is vital, but I'd like you to show me ANY .quality GM, HC, OC, or QB that would agree with you. 

*crickets*

Im looking at the current team and dont see the need for an elite LT. How many true Elite LTs are there? Oh by the way....dont care what all the talking heads say.....dont need to be right or wrong about it. Its a conversation based on worthless opinions.

Chiefs D is looking better for the future. Lots of young, unproven talent. Hey if Karlaftis is a world beater I may change my focus. Clark will be gone and Jones is not getting younger.

[Holmes4six! 968]

At the end of the day, I’m glad Brown is back. We need to be stout at the tackle positions especially with afc pass rushers as mentioned earlier. ( not that guard or Center is to be dismissed ) 
I’m now wondering how the RT battle is going and what we will be doing there. 

I hope Naing comes thru. He can be nasty and that is what we need. 
I hope Brown gets some nastiness in him also. 


 

[THEWIZARD 247]

7 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Im looking at the current team and dont see the need for an elite LT. How many true Elite LTs are there? Oh by the way....dont care what all the talking heads say.....dont need to be right or wrong about it. Its a conversation based on worthless opinions.

Chiefs D is looking better for the future. Lots of young, unproven talent. Hey if Karlaftis is a world beater I may change my focus. Clark will be gone and Jones is not getting younger.

You are entitled to your opinion, but like I said before not too many agree with you.

"How many true Elite LTs are out there" 

All the more reason to keep a very good young ascending player at the position.

[DieHard 2,061]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

True but it does not mean KC has to keep him at huge expense. See Tyrek Hill.

LT is not that important to me. KC can win with a decent LT. Does not need to pay elite money.

You may be right. If is a tough comparison between the two because one is young and ascending while the other approaching the end of their career. I know its only 5 years difference, but linemen seem to age better than WRs. I hope Brown kills it and we have to figure out what to do next year. 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

True but it does not mean KC has to keep him at huge expense. See Tyrek Hill.

LT is not that important to me. KC can win with a decent LT. Does not need to pay elite money.

Wasn't the importance of good tackles illustrated in SB55?  Or rather the lack of them. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

24 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Wasn't the importance of good tackles illustrated in SB55?  Or rather the lack of them. 

Not really. The entire oline was a mess. An average tackle next to Thuney and the rest of this current oline would be a different . Hey Brown has not shown he is elite. Not close. He wants elite money. Even if he suddenly becomes elite I would look for other players. Survey the situation at that time. Nobody, fans, knows who may become available or who is available. Veach/Reid will know. We shall see if Veach/Reid survey the choices next off season and keep Brown or send him packing. I trust their decisions.