Travis Kelce

[DieHard 2,061]

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiY2h0dHBzOi8vcHJvZm9vdGJhbGx0YWxrLm5iY3Nwb3J0cy5jb20vMjAyMi8wOC8wMS90cmF2aXMta2VsY2UtaS1kb250LXBsYW4tb24tcGxheWluZy1hbnl3aGVyZS1lbHNlL9IBZ2h0dHBzOi8vcHJvZm9vdGJhbGx0YWxrLm5iY3Nwb3J0cy5jb20vMjAyMi8wOC8wMS90cmF2aXMta2VsY2UtaS1kb250LXBsYW4tb24tcGxheWluZy1hbnl3aGVyZS1lbHNlL2FtcC8?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
 

I just love this guy. He and Pat are the gold standard of professionals. We are so freaking lucky to call them Chiefs. 
 

I read that he had the most receiving yards of any player in the last 6 years. Anybody who ranks him anything other than TE1 is crazy. Lunacy to quote another Legend.

[THEWIZARD 247]

It's pretty obvious his players that don't have the initials OBJ will run through walls for Andy.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

kelce can stay as long as he wants for above market value as far as im concerned

[DieHard 2,061]

With players like Kelce, Pat and Jones signing for less than market value, I can see how you can’t give an average player elite money. Sorry Brown. 

[sith13 1,746]

No surprises with the statement, he can't find a better QB elsewhere so staying here until retirement makes perfect sense. He's definitely underpaid based on the current numbers but that's not very uncommon for elite players. 

[WichitaZRide 321]

15 hours ago, THEWIZARD said:

It's pretty obvious his players that don't have the initials OBJ will run through walls for Andy.

Yeah....   if you saw Juju's comments recently....  players love Big Red

[xen 1,010,220]

21 hours ago, sith13 said:

No surprises with the statement, he can't find a better QB elsewhere so staying here until retirement makes perfect sense. He's definitely underpaid based on the current numbers but that's not very uncommon for elite players. 

Name an elite player in his prime not named Tom Brady that's purposefully taking less money than market value.

[sith13 1,746]

54 minutes ago, xen said:

Name an elite player in his prime not named Tom Brady that's purposefully taking less money than market value.

Not really taking less than market value, if we look with that perspective Kelce is still the #2 TE in terms of contract value. My point is rather being underpaid based on contribution. Elite players are generally paid as the top player, or very close, at the signing of the contract but they don't really get too far ahead of the positional value and fall behind in rankings within a year or two. 

Kelce is paid as the #2 TE but based on the contributions his real value would be the top TE even after a few years pass. The same goes for Mahomes who's now getting paid less than guys like Murray or Watson with laughable guarantees in comparison. 

Looking at the entire NFL I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few guys but I don't know anyone other than Donald who's not underpaid and will likely remain so throughout his contract. 

[xen 1,010,220]

21 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Not really taking less than market value, if we look with that perspective Kelce is still the #2 TE in terms of contract value. My point is rather being underpaid based on contribution. Elite players are generally paid as the top player, or very close, at the signing of the contract but they don't really get too far ahead of the positional value and fall behind in rankings within a year or two. 

Kelce is paid as the #2 TE but based on the contributions his real value would be the top TE even after a few years pass. The same goes for Mahomes who's now getting paid less than guys like Murray or Watson with laughable guarantees in comparison. 

Looking at the entire NFL I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few guys but I don't know anyone other than Donald who's not underpaid and will likely remain so throughout his contract. 

Those guys weren't taking less than market value when they signed their contract.  The market just passed them up.  There's a difference.  The former is rare, the latter is inevitable.  Maybe I misread your comment but you seemed to suggest guys are taking less than market value as elite players when the opposite is true.

[sith13 1,746]

7 minutes ago, xen said:

Those guys weren't taking less than market value when they signed their contract.  The market just passed them up.  There's a difference.  The former is rare, the latter is inevitable.  Maybe I misread your comment but you seemed to suggest guys are taking less than market value as elite players when the opposite is true.

May not have been very clear on my part as my intention was to mention the guys not earning as much as they should have over a longer period of time as the old fashioned "elite" status would suggest. Right now the going rate for elite players seem to be the top money at the contract signing which gets surpassed by inferior players in a few years. 

However Kelce is truly elite but his contract doesn't reflect that as opposed to Donald who'll likely be the top dog for quite a while. 

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Those guys weren't taking less than market value when they signed their contract.  The market just passed them up.  There's a difference.  The former is rare, the latter is inevitable.  Maybe I misread your comment but you seemed to suggest guys are taking less than market value as elite players when the opposite is true.

You need a translator to know what KU people mean. 

[DieHard 2,061]

I promise all 3 could have gotten more on the free market. I felt those were sweetheart deals even at the time.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

This is what we have been saying all the time.  Receivers want to be thrown the ball by Pat.  They want to be coached by Andy.  They want to feel like they belong to a real team with players that care about each other...and who win regularly.  As Paul Simon wrote, " and that is worth some money."  Players are giving up some money to gain something else for a lifetime experience.  It's why dynasties are dynasties.  As long as Reid and Mahomes are with us, even an off year will still be very good. These players are still kids, and kids like to play, and they like to win.

[jetlord 10,209]

9 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

This is what we have been saying all the time.  Receivers want to be thrown the ball by Pat.  They want to be coached by Andy.  They want to feel like they belong to a real team with players that care about each other...and who win regularly.  As Paul Simon wrote, " and that is worth some money."  Players are giving up some money to gain something else for a lifetime experience.  It's why dynasties are dynasties.  As long as Reid and Mahomes are with us, even an off year will still be very good. These players are still kids, and kids like to play, and they like to win.

It's not all so altruistic, IMHO.  For example, JuJu played last year for the worst QB on a recently good team.  His road to a huge payday is to put up #1 receiver type numbers with Mahomes and grab the brass ring next winter in FA.  One year at modest pay and a 4 year deal at $20 million per.  Sure, he wants to win and a SB ring only enhances his value.  But, like OBJ, he's playing for the lifetime deal. KC is the perfect place to earn it. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

17 minutes ago, jetlord said:

It's not all so altruistic, IMHO.  For example, JuJu played last year for the worst QB on a recently good team.  His road to a huge payday is to put up #1 receiver type numbers with  Mahomes and grab the brass ring next winter in FA.  One year at modest pay and a 4 year deal at $20 million per.  Sure, he wants to win and a SB ring only enhances his value.  But, like OBJ, he's playing for the lifetime deal. KC is the perfect place to earn it. 

I think we are both right.  Players want money and fame, We know that.  But I am merely saying that those other elements I mentioned are also important, and players openly say that in interviews. We know that it is true. Kelce has said so, also Jones, that they want to play for the Chiefs for their whole career.  Hill was traded unilaterally, purposefully for the draft capital and because they might not have gotten that much capital in another year. He was miffed, too. Players do want to win, and they do want to play for Andy Reid and with Patrick Mahomes II and have a chance at a ring.  So, yes, that is worth something and gives the Chiefs during this era an advantage acquiring good players, many, not all, of whom will take a little less to play for a team like the Chiefs.  How much less, if any, that they will take depends on the player and the circumstances, but it is a factor.  Veach and the entire front office knows it.  You know it.  We all do.

[sith13 1,746]

16 hours ago, jetlord said:

You need a translator to know what KU people mean. 

There's a special dialect that comes with national titles 😎

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I think we are both right.  Players want money and fame, We know that.  But I am merely saying that those other elements I mentioned are also important, and players openly say that in interviews. We know that it is true. Kelce has said so, also Jones, that they want to play for the Chiefs for their whole career.  Hill was traded unilaterally, purposefully for the draft capital and because they might not have gotten that much capital in another year. He was miffed, too. Players do want to win, and they do want to play for Andy Reid and with Patrick Mahomes II and have a chance at a ring.  So, yes, that is worth something and gives the Chiefs during this era an advantage acquiring good players, many, not all, of whom will take a little less to play for a team like the Chiefs.  How much less, if any, that they will take depends on the player and the circumstances, but it is a factor.  Veach and the entire front office knows it.  You know it.  We all do.

10 million in KC could be worth 12 on a team with lame QB. There's always that small difference as the better QB will win the receiver some money off the field as well. Sustained success topped off with a ring or two means some decent money after retirement and with the tv deals coming in I think more and more players are realizing that.

[jetlord 10,209]

14 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I think we are both right.  Players want money and fame, We know that.  But I am merely saying that those other elements I mentioned are also important, and players openly say that in interviews. We know that it is true. Kelce has said so, also Jones, that they want to play for the Chiefs for their whole career.  Hill was traded unilaterally, purposefully for the draft capital and because they might not have gotten that much capital in another year. He was miffed, too. Players do want to win, and they do want to play for Andy Reid and with Patrick Mahomes II and have a chance at a ring.  So, yes, that is worth something and gives the Chiefs during this era an advantage acquiring good players, many, not all, of whom will take a little less to play for a team like the Chiefs.  How much less, if any, that they will take depends on the player and the circumstances, but it is a factor.  Veach and the entire front office knows it.  You know it.  We all do.

Okay with all of that except I don't see the Hill trade as unilateral.  He willingly negotiated a high paying contract with a team that has less exposure and fame potential and a QB that likely will have less of that special rapport that Hill enjoyed with Mahomes.  It wasn't like the Chiefs were through with him and cast him off for draft picks.  They reportedly made a good offer that became less good when a few other WRs got overpaid.

[jetlord 10,209]

9 hours ago, sith13 said:

There's a special dialect that comes with national titles 😎

Worst team in the FBS is a title?  

[dhitter 1,424]

If anyone bothered to watch Florio recently....his take is Mahomes deal afforded the team the opportunity to pay others. But Hill left for greener pastures and Brown didn't get paid so the idea of cutting a deal to retain other key players "isn't working" (his words). Personally, I think he's off his nut as I do believe the Chiefs will generate more offense this year compared to last.

[oldtimer 8,686]

5 minutes ago, dhitter said:

If anyone bothered to watch Florio recently....his take is Mahomes deal afforded the team the opportunity to pay others. But Hill left for greener pastures and Brown didn't get paid so the idea of cutting a deal to retain other key players "isn't working" (his words). Personally, I think he's off his nut as I do believe the Chiefs will generate more offense this year compared to last.

fuk Florio

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

45 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Okay with all of that except I don't see the Hill trade as unilateral.  He willingly negotiated a high paying contract with a team that has less exposure and fame potential and a QB that likely will have less of that special rapport that Hill enjoyed with Mahomes.  It wasn't like the Chiefs were through with him and cast him off for draft picks.  They reportedly made a good offer that became less good when a few other WRs got overpaid.

I don't have the reference or if it was even valid, but there was reference in an article to the theory that the Chiefs felt that Hill would be less valuable in another year, as a FA, that he he was currently at his peak value in a trade, and that the Chiefs felt the draft was deep in WR's and they needed a lot of good picks to make up for veteran losses at several positions and save money with first contracts.  If true, that was pretty unilateral by the Chiefs.  They (and others) also felt that Hill was kind of inhibiting the development of other receivers by getting the lions share of snaps, and that they would be up a creek if HIll had a season ending injury. I shared the same feeling myself.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

21 minutes ago, dhitter said:

If anyone bothered to watch Florio recently....his take is Mahomes deal afforded the team the opportunity to pay others. But Hill left for greener pastures and Brown didn't get paid so the idea of cutting a deal to retain other key players "isn't working" (his words). Personally, I think he's off his nut as I do believe the Chiefs will generate more offense this year compared to last.

Hill didn't leave for greener pastures.  He was traded, wasn't he?  Am I confused?

[oldtimer 8,686]

2 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Hill didn't leave for greener pastures.  He was traded.

have you seen Arrowhead Field sometimes it's almost brown..bet that don't happen in Miami

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

30 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I don't have the reference or if it was even valid, but there was reference in an article to the theory that the Chiefs felt that Hill would be less valuable in another year, as a FA, that he he was currently at his peak value in a trade, and that the Chiefs felt the draft was deep in WR's and they needed a lot of good picks to make up for veteran losses at several positions and save money with first contracts.  If true, that was pretty unilateral by the Chiefs.  They (and others) also felt that Hill was kind of inhibiting the development of other receivers by getting the lions share of snaps, and that they would be up a creek if HIll had a season ending injury. I shared the same feeling myself.

I found the reference:  https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/6/17/23172647/was-the-tyreek-hill-trade-a-questionable-move-for-both-the-chiefs-and-dolphins