Hardman article for your consideration

[WichitaZRide 321]

So hear me out on this.....

My personal belief is that his ball tracking is his #1 issue.  Unfortunately, that's a massive problem when you are expected to be the guy to take the top off the defense and chase down those long passes.  But we saw yesterday that if you give the guy space he makes things happen.

What if instead of being a WR, he was converted into a pass catching RB?  Everything he does good seems to be when he's a runner and not a WR.  

I just thought it was funny though, all the people out there proclaiming "yall need to apologize for what you said about hardmen all this time".   Nope...  one game in four years where all his success came as a running back (yes i know one of his TDs is considered a pass, but we all know its a run).  

I like Hardman, but his place is as that gadget running/get into space player and let him use his speed.  I think he's all what we thought Tyreek Hill was gonna be until he proved us all wrong by being an absolutely incredible route runner.  

[AFCWEST 1,238]

9 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

So hear me out on this.....

My personal belief is that his ball tracking is his #1 issue.  Unfortunately, that's a massive problem when you are expected to be the guy to take the top off the defense and chase down those long passes.  But we saw yesterday that if you give the guy space he makes things happen.

What if instead of being a WR, he was converted into a pass catching RB?  Everything he does good seems to be when he's a runner and not a WR.  

I just thought it was funny though, all the people out there proclaiming "yall need to apologize for what you said about hardmen all this time".   Nope...  one game in four years where all his success came as a running back (yes i know one of his TDs is considered a pass, but we all know its a run).  

I like Hardman, but his place is as that gadget running/get into space player and let him use his speed.  I think he's all what we thought Tyreek Hill was gonna be until he proved us all wrong by being an absolutely incredible route runner.  

Dont disagree. That small role is important. He can also return kicks. He can take a small play to the house. He can take the top off the defense, decoy, because teams must account for his speed.. I like the idea of putting him in the backfield once in awhile.

Have not seen anyone talk about apologies? 

[WichitaZRide 321]

12 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Dont disagree. That small role is important. He can also return kicks. He can take a small play to the house. He can take the top off the defense, decoy, because teams must account for his speed.. I like the idea of putting him in the backfield once in awhile.

Have not seen anyone talk about apologies? 

Well...  I'm personally not on board with him as a returner either.  He loses his job as return man because he keeps trying to go sideways.  He gets his first chance yesterday and what does he do?  Tries to go sideways and loses 8 yards vs a fair catch.  He isn't learning, and that's frustrating...

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, WichitaZRide said:

Well...  I'm personally not on board with him as a returner either.  He loses his job as return man because he keeps trying to go sideways.  He gets his first chance yesterday and what does he do?  Tries to go sideways and loses 8 yards vs a fair catch.  He isn't learning, and that's frustrating...

Point is in a pinch this guy is of value in many roles. He also broke off the kick return against Houston in the playoffs that got the Chiefs rolling. Every player , fumbles, drop passes, do stupid penalties, run the wrong route etc. Cheap contract role player. Do I care if KC keeps him? No. I route for him as long as he is a chief. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

The guy may be cheap next year. Good #3 role player. Good depth. Current contract cheap. No big deal if he leaves either. No reason to hate on this guy.

So he has trade value but is not good enough to stay? 

 

I never said or implied Hate that is your own Costanza sensitivities at work. I just think that if we could get a decent return on the guy he should be on the next greyhound outta  KC. A team might see him as a future #1 or #2 WR, here he's a gadget #3 at best. We have Moore and that other kid that got hurt in training camp coming on.  They're cheaper and an untapped upside..we know what Hardman's upside is. The NY _Giants look to be a great place for him and I'd take a 4rth in a heart beat. Probably only get a 6th and a conditional..maybe still I'd take it.

[Calichief 3,016]

He’s starting to find his niche. We need him this year.

Next year someone is gonna pay for speed. And probably over pay. Next year is another story.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Just now, oldtimer said:

I never said or implied Hate that is your own Costanza sensitivities at work. I just think that if we could get a decent return on the guy he should be on the next greyhound outta  KC. A team might see him as a future #1 or #2 WR, here he's a gadget #3 at best. We have Moore and that other kid that got hurt in training camp coming on.  They're cheaper and an untapped upside..we know what Hardman's upside is. The NY _Giants look to be a great place for him and I'd take a 4rth in a heart beat. Probably only get a 6th and a conditional..maybe still I'd take it.

I would not do a deal now. I doubt he is a 4th round value to other teams. The team, offense,  has some mojo. Keep it going. Good depth option at several positions. Knows the system. Blah Blah Blah

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

I would not do a deal now. I doubt he is a 4th round value to other teams. The team, offense,  has some mojo. Keep it going. Good depth option at several positions. Knows the system. Blah Blah Blah

Are you saying that wouldn't take a 4th round pick for mecole right now???

[oldtimer 8,686]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

I would not do a deal now. I doubt he is a 4th round value to other teams. The team, offense,  has some mojo. Keep it going. Good depth option at several positions. Knows the system. Blah Blah Blah

Kafka is their OC ya never know what he may think of Hardman, surely he was part of the draft discussion.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

2 minutes ago, artsy said:

Are you saying that wouldn't take a 4th round pick for mecole right now???

Yes. I doubt KC can get a 4th. Even if they could I dont trade him at this point. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

8 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Kafka is their OC ya never know what he may think of Hardman, surely he was part of the draft discussion.

Give Kafta a call. LOL Seriously dont you think he and others see the same things? Hardman is a good role guy etc. Is that a 4th? Maybe? I still dont deal him at this point.

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

The guy may be cheap next year. Good #3 role player. Good depth. Current contract cheap. No big deal if he leaves either. No reason to hate on this guy.

So he has trade value but is not good enough to stay? 

 

I don't think it's unthinkable. Hardman is definitely good enough to stay for this year but not sure if he's good enough for a long-term extension. However he could still have some trade value for a team that sees some upside or short-term value. In some cases it could just be a path towards easy extension if they believe in his pure abilities. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

4 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I don't think it's unthinkable. Hardman is definitely good enough to stay for this year but not sure if he's good enough for a long-term extension. However he could still have some trade value for a team that sees some upside or short-term value. In some cases it could just be a path towards easy extension if they believe in his pure abilities. 

Its not worth trading this guy mid season for a mid round pick. He is a part of this offense surge. He was hurt until recently. Build on the MO. 

Its not like KC is deep at receiver. Moore needs more seasoning. An injury to one of the top two guys is not unlikely.

[Palangi 788]

I wouldn’t mind trading Hardman and letting Moore get his reps. Skyy is more of a natural receiver. And I think Skyy can do the gadget plays too. We might be able to pry a young DE for Hardman. Like maybe a Yetur Gross-Matos from Carolina. 

[jetlord 10,209]

The Chiefs should keep Hardman, at least for this season.  He has a role and has made some game changing plays.  What I don't understand is why Hardman was able to haul in the long bombs his rookie year and not since.  Was he just more open then?  Has he lost ball tracking skills?  Has Mahomes not given him the opportunities?  It's hard to erase that picture of Hardman running deep and wide open in the second half of the AFCCG last year and Mahomes just didn't look for him.

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

Its not worth trading this guy mid season for a mid round pick. He is a part of this offense surge. He was hurt until recently. Build on the MO. 

Its not like KC is deep at receiver. Moore needs more seasoning. An injury to one of the top two guys is not unlikely.

The Imir Smith-Marsette kid that we just signed is very similar to Hardman. He is also a very good return guy. So maybe he returns points and kicks and allows Skyy to focus on WR?

[jetlord 10,209]

1 minute ago, Palangi said:

The Imir Smith-Marsette kid that we just signed is very similar to Hardman. He is also a very good return guy. So maybe he returns points and kicks and allows Skyy to focus on WR?

Can McDuffie return punts?  

[azchief21 5,278]

17 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Can McDuffie return punts?  

We have got to get Moore out there. He's killing us as a PR

[Okiechief1 425]

40 minutes ago, jetlord said:

The Chiefs should keep Hardman, at least for this season.  He has a role and has made some game changing plays.  What I don't understand is why Hardman was able to haul in the long bombs his rookie year and not since.  Was he just more open then?  Has he lost ball tracking skills?  Has Mahomes not given him the opportunities?  It's hard to erase that picture of Hardman running deep and wide open in the second half of the AFCCG last year and Mahomes just didn't look for him.

I agree

A few weeks back something similiar happened where Hardman down the seam into the EZ.  I think the play went to Kelce instead.  Going off memory so i may not be right on who he went to.  Mahomes is hunan he is going not always make the right read or not see an open.  

If things keep going as they are and barring any major injuries KC is looking to go to Buff for a rematch in the AGCCG.  We need every bullet we have in the chamber for that game.   

[Calichief 3,016]

If you think you are a super bowl team, which I think the chiefs do, you don’t trade away talent in the middle of it. You acquire it.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

6 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Give Kafta a call. LOL Seriously dont you think he and others see the same things? Hardman is a good role guy etc. Is that a 4th? Maybe? I still dont deal him at this point.

While we shouldn't give him a big contract he does have value.  He is worth more than a 4th to us.  We have an opportunity to win a SB this year we don't need to send off value able pieces for low round picks.  They offer a 2nd and we should help him pack his bags but he gives our O another dimension.

[artsy 1,137]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

While we shouldn't give him a big contract he does have value.  He is worth more than a 4th to us.  We have an opportunity to win a SB this year we don't need to send off value able pieces for low round picks.  They offer a 2nd and we should help him pack his bags but he gives our O another dimension.

I wouldn't think twice about trading mecole for a 4th. And no one...In their right mind, would offer up a 2nd for Hardman. 

Moore, pacheco and even Mckinnon can run jet sweeps and WR screens and Justin Watson is a better WR. If someone offered up a 4th for him, KC should jump on it....IMO.

[Holmes4six! 968]

Hardman has speed and knows the playbook. He may frustrate us more times than not but this far into the season he is a must to keep. Perhaps others like juju and MVS can keep doing what they did yesterday and all of a sudden hardman maybe more of an asset. 
I much rather keep him, and try to look for DE, DT , RT help. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, artsy said:

I wouldn't think twice about trading mecole for a 4th. And no one...In their right mind, would offer up a 2nd for Hardman. 

Moore, pacheco and even Mckinnon can run jet sweeps and WR screens and Justin Watson is a better WR. If someone offered up a 4th for him, KC should jump on it....IMO.

Lol, rather take a chance and see what we get for a comp pick than a 4th.

[robgar 1,046]

no we dont have anyone that can run a jet sweep the way hardman does. 

lets see how he does now that he is getting over that heel injury. 

seems he has gotten his speed back.