Machine Gun Clark

[AFCWEST 1,238]

10 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

You know...   I'm still trying to figure out what the Chiefs have done to get the short end of every NFL situation.  Clark Hunt plays company man with the absolute best of them but still constantly gets crapped on.

I tried looking, but I can't find a single instance of a player getting suspended based on an illegal firearms charge.  Some had a combination of issues, such as drug possession or DUI, but there are players that seem to get arrested every off season with illegal firearms and this is the first time i actually see it punished by the NFL.  

I'm also trying to wrap my head around timing.  I think we've all seen time and time and time again that when someone is suspended, the punishment always comes down within 10 days of when the court case is settled.  Hell for Deshaun, within 10 days of him settling they had an independent ruling, a disagreement by the NFL, a secondary investigation by the NFL and NFLPA, negotiations between the two sides, and a decision.  How is it that Gay and Clark get suspensions handed out randomly out of nowhere?

That said, When it comes to the timing, I do wonder if the NFL is hooking up the chiefs in some way.  Like....i almost feel like they let the Chiefs decide if Gay were to miss the Chargers game or the Bills game due to the funky timing.  I also wonder If the NFL postponed their ruling on Clark to a time more convenient for the team.  As in....  not suspending him during the Gay suspension and letting him do is suspension for the titans/jags games vs the 49ers/Titans games after gay was back from his suspension...

I dunno.....  i'm just the kind of person that likes due process and consistency, and jesus the NFL sucks at both....lol

NFL Policy Decisions and The Meaning of Life.  Unsolvable.

[DieHard 2,061]

16 hours ago, azchief21 said:

Not a big fan of "pressures" what does that mean? Does it mean the pass was incomplete? Many QBs do great under pressure. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar. Mahomes threw WASP while he was under pressure. I want the QB face down in the grass either with the ball or a fumble recovery. 

I don't disagree with you, but it doesn't really answer my question.  I was just looking for a source of that info. I will say:  A lot of pressures > no pressures. 

[qnet 1,150]

To those questioning the timing of the suspensions, after thinking about it, I do remember the Chiefs playing other teams in the past who had players on suspension at random times. I think that since stuff like this hasn’t happened a lot to Chiefs players, it seems strange.  Having two players in one season is really unusual.

 

[WichitaZRide 321]

17 hours ago, azchief21 said:

Not a big fan of "pressures" what does that mean? Does it mean the pass was incomplete? Many QBs do great under pressure. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar. Mahomes threw WASP while he was under pressure. I want the QB face down in the grass either with the ball or a fumble recovery. 

It means that while not getting a sack, they pressured the QB into a situation that forced them to make a throw sooner than they would have wanted to.  Pressures are the main reason interceptions and near interceptions happen as well as tipped passes, and throwaway passes, so they are an extremely valuable as a state to monitor....

[azchief21 5,278]

1 hour ago, WichitaZRide said:

It means that while not getting a sack, they pressured the QB into a situation that forced them to make a throw sooner than they would have wanted to.  Pressures are the main reason interceptions and near interceptions happen as well as tipped passes, and throwaway passes, so they are an extremely valuable as a state to monitor....

My point is you could get great pressure on a QB and he scrambles and throws a TD or runs for a 1st down. I think pressures should only count if something negative results. If that's how it's calculated, it's a handy tool. DT applied all kinds of pressure on Dave Krieg trying to get the 8th sack only to have him escape and throw a GW TD. So it was a pressure but we lost the game.

[bamaroyal 87]

Clark's suspension is no big deal... He shot his wad in SF in the 4th qtr... It will take 3 weeks for him to get his mojo back anyway...😉

[WichitaZRide 321]

18 hours ago, azchief21 said:

My point is you could get great pressure on a QB and he scrambles and throws a TD or runs for a 1st down. I think pressures should only count if something negative results. If that's how it's calculated, it's a handy tool. DT applied all kinds of pressure on Dave Krieg trying to get the 8th sack only to have him escape and throw a GW TD. So it was a pressure but we lost the game.

I think that's just too much.  Your job is to disrupt the QB.  If you did your job, you shouldn't get downgraded because others didn't do theirs.  

your comments makes it sounds like Dave Kreig wont that game BECAUSE TD put pressure on him.  DT did his job.  Not his fault that nobody from the other side of the dline was around to meet Kreig when he escaped DT.  Also not his fault the secondary broke down and allowed Kreig to find the open man.

Lets use your scenario in another sport.  You are a sinker pitcher in baseball.  You do your job and get teams to hit ground balls.  Should you get punished when the ground balls are not fielded properly by the team or the coach shifted the team to the wrong spots to field the ball?  You did your job, and there should be stats that reflect that.   This is what pressures/hurries are.

If Chris jones bats a pass, but while its in the air, an offensive player ends up with the ball and making a positive play, do you think Jones shouldn't get credit for doing his job as well?

Flip side...  should the QB still get credit for the completion?

If orlando Jones whiffs on his defender on a run play, but the RB gets around the defender anyway and gets a first down, should Browns stats say nothing about his negative play or the fact that he didn't do his job correctly because of the outcome of the play?

Feels like we are just making stats too hard to govern.  Thats why if you do your job you should get credit....regardless of the outcome on the field.  

[azchief21 5,278]

15 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

Your job is to disrupt the QB.  If you did your job, you shouldn't get downgraded because others didn't do theirs.  

Your job is to disrupt the QB.- How disrupted is a QB if he still throws a TD or even a completion for a first down?

If you did your job, you shouldn't get downgraded because others didn't do theirs.- If you did your job, the ball would be intercepted, incomplete or thrown away. Besides he wouldn't be getting downgraded he's just not getting credit while the other team is successful. 

 

[WichitaZRide 321]

57 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Your job is to disrupt the QB.- How disrupted is a QB if he still throws a TD or even a completion for a first down?

If you did your job, you shouldn't get downgraded because others didn't do theirs.- If you did your job, the ball would be intercepted, incomplete or thrown away. Besides he wouldn't be getting downgraded he's just not getting credit while the other team is successful. 

 

Come on dude....  you watch football...    for every one of those plays you describe, there will be 25 others that go for rushed incomplete passes, failed, runs, interceptions, throwaways, or someone else getting the sack.  Why change the status quo for the anomaly?      

So let me ask you this....  you have a group project at your job that you are working on.  You work your ass off.  You do everything right, you absolutely kill it.  Then one idiot screws up and the project fails.  Are you saying that because your team was not successful that you shouldn't get any credit for the hard work you did?  That come review time your boss should forget all the great work you put in to the project?

His job is his job....  his job isn't the job of the other 11 people on the field.  If Patrick Mahomes throws an absolute perfect pass to Hardman and he drops is, do you yell at the TV "MAHOMES DIDN'T DO HIS JOB BECAUSE THE PLAY WASN'T SUCCESSFUL"?  You are severely confusing an individual doing their job vs a team doing their job.  

If QBS still get counted for interceptions that bounce out of their receivers hands and into the defenders hands, I think we can concede pressuring the QB counts as a favorable stat.  

I honestly can't believe I'm even having this discussion....  Talking football on this page for easily 15+ years and I can honestly say that this is the most unbelievable thing I've ever had to talk about....  and that's saying a lot with some of the bad takes passed around here over the years...

[azchief21 5,278]

8 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

Come on dude....  you watch football...    for every one of those plays you describe, there will be 25 others that go for rushed incomplete passes, failed, runs, interceptions, throwaways, or someone else getting the sack.  Why change the status quo for the anomaly?      

So let me ask you this....  you have a group project at your job that you are working on.  You work your ass off.  You do everything right, you absolutely kill it.  Then one idiot screws up and the project fails.  Are you saying that because your team was not successful that you shouldn't get any credit for the hard work you did?  That come review time your boss should forget all the great work you put in to the project?

His job is his job....  his job isn't the job of the other 11 people on the field.  If Patrick Mahomes throws an absolute perfect pass to Hardman and he drops is, do you yell at the TV "MAHOMES DIDN'T DO HIS JOB BECAUSE THE PLAY WASN'T SUCCESSFUL"?  You are severely confusing an individual doing their job vs a team doing their job.  

If QBS still get counted for interceptions that bounce out of their receivers hands and into the defenders hands, I think we can concede pressuring the QB counts as a favorable stat.  

I honestly can't believe I'm even having this discussion....  Talking football on this page for easily 15+ years and I can honestly say that this is the most unbelievable thing I've ever had to talk about....  and that's saying a lot with some of the bad takes passed around here over the years...

You're the guy that wants participation ribbons, aren't you? Or "Hey, I know he threw a game-winning TD but I had a pressure on that play!!" Again, if a pressure results in a negative result for the offense, I'm all for it. If it results in the QB throwing for a TD, a 1st down or scrambling for a 1st down then it's just stupid. The "pressure" did nothing to deter the offense's success. And if you think I have bad takes in here, check out my stuff in the LR. 

[WichitaZRide 321]

1 hour ago, azchief21 said:

You're the guy that wants participation ribbons, aren't you? Or "Hey, I know he threw a game-winning TD but I had a pressure on that play!!" Again, if a pressure results in a negative result for the offense, I'm all for it. If it results in the QB throwing for a TD, a 1st down or scrambling for a 1st down then it's just stupid. The "pressure" did nothing to deter the offense's success. And if you think I have bad takes in here, check out my stuff in the LR. 

They are called "individual stats" and not "team stats" for a reason.  

The funny thing is i have given example after example after example after example over multiple sports as to why your thoughts have no merit...  and yet you have no response.

If an offensive lineman pancakes a player, but someone else on the other side of the line stops a rb for a loss, did the pancake not happen?

If a QB throws a completed pass to a WR at the LOS, but the WR immediately trips over his own feet and falls down, did the reception not happen?

If a QB throws a completed pass to a WR and the WR ends up fumbling the ball, does the QB get that pass attempt, completion, and yards wiped off his stat card?

I don't understand how this concept is so hard to understand.  Individuals can have individual stats for their individual performance....  even if the team doesn't perform...

[xen 1,010,219]

Zride is correct.  AZ is incorrect.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[azchief21 5,278]

1 minute ago, xen said:

Zride is correct.  AZ is incorrect.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[xen 1,010,219]

So if I get a sack on 2nd down, and the QB throws a td on 3rd down they take away my sack?

Gtfo

Pressure is cumulative and a great predictor of defensive success year over year for team defense and individual performance.  Sacks have much to do with luck and much like pass defender success rate have a lot of variance year over year.  They ironically are awful at predicting team success.  Also ironically a high pressure rate also usually means that sooner or later you'll start collecting sacks.  A high team pressure rate is also a good predictor of team defensive success rates.

Deal with it brah.

[azchief21 5,278]

58 minutes ago, xen said:

So if I get a sack on 2nd down, and the QB throws a td on 3rd down they take away my sack?

Gtfo

Pressure is cumulative and a great predictor of defensive success year over year for team defense and individual performance.  Sacks have much to do with luck and much like pass defender success rate have a lot of variance year over year.  They ironically are awful at predicting team success.  Also ironically a high pressure rate also usually means that sooner or later you'll start collecting sacks.  A high team pressure rate is also a good predictor of team defensive success rates.

Deal with it brah.

That is a stoopid analogy. Totally different play. If you get pressure on a QB and he throws a TD, WTF good is it? What if a QB is in the pocket can't find a receiver, you pressure him, he rolls to the right enabling him to find a receiver open in the end zone. Your "pressure" helped him. Look how many times Mahomes has been pressured from the pocket to make huge plays. The pressure didn't hurt hurt him or help the pressuring team at all. Dumb stat unless it negatively affects the offense. There could be 7 guys that get a pressure stat on one of Mahomes drop backs and he'll throw a dart to the EZ. You've been outbrahed, brah

[azchief21 5,278]

I know the QB escaped "pressure" to throw a game-winning TD but can we give that DE a ribbon or certificate for his effort?