Optimism and possible explanation

[WichitaZRide 321]

So, even in a winning effort, I know many Chiefs fans were frustrated, upset, irritated, etc. by the offense most of the night.  But some reasons for optimism

• The Titans Defense is legit.  Outside Buffalo, they are averaging 16 points allowed per game while playing some teams with High powered offenses
• For the most part, the Titans are just one of those teams the Chiefs have struggled with in the Andy Reid era.  He just hasn't been able to figure how to gameplan against their defense since Vrabel has come on board.  Yes, it sucks when we play the Titans, but it shouldn't reflect the rest of the season
• Andy Reid wasn't calling the plays.  If you watched, EVERY time the cameras were on Andy, he was just standing there doing nothing.  EVERY time the cameras were on Bienemy, he was calling plays...  and the reason i believe this happened is my personal belief as to the main reason for the struggle...
• Andy Reid wasn't there mentally:  Britt Reid was sentenced to Prison time Tuesday afternoon.  He was supposed to be sentenced the prior Friday.  Andy Reid was most likely focused on his family both during the Bye week and during game week.  We saw the same thing happen Superbowl weekend.  I don't fault him for it one bit, but i do think it was the biggest contributor

Anyway.  Like most of you, i was yelling at the TV and playcalling and dropped passes and tipped too.  I was wondering why the chiefs have THESE kinds of games.  

No NFL team is perfect.  The Bills were blown out by the Panthers and lost to the Jets.  We lost to the Colts.   Parity in the NFL is real.  However, the chiefs did WIN yesterday, and now we can turn our attention to hopefully beating Jacksonville's ass and forgetting all about this game...

Additionally, the defense played their freaking asses off!  If you think about it, outside TWO running plays and a field goal due to a turnover already in fieldgoal range, the Titans offense didn't do jack shit last night.  People will point to the new QB and stuff like that...  but we all know that backup QBs are a wildcard.  There's not tape on the guy and there's no real way to gameplan.  The chiefs are far better equipped to handle Tannehill knowing what he does and what he can do vs some guy they'd never seen before.  this is why you see so many QBs come out of nowhere and suprise teams.  But then you generally see them flop if they have to play extended time and tape gets out there.  

Anyway....enjoy the win, don't flip out too much... we'll be just fine

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Agree

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

Well our offensive struggles always follow the same pattern.

1. our tackles get destroyed so our downfield plays have no time to develop 

2. juju and kelce can win in short routes, mvs and skyy moore and the other options can not. Hardman seems to be able to get open but for whatever reason pat does not trust him and rarely looks his way other than jet sweeps.

3. we can’t run the ball, mostly due to our tackles suck.

 

therefore teams double kelce, forcing juju to catch essentially short passes all the way downfield, hard to score that way before a tipped ball or something happens.

[artsy 1,137]

7 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Well our offensive struggles always follow the same pattern.

1. our tackles get destroyed so our downfield plays have no time to develop 

2. juju and kelce can win in short routes, mvs and skyy moore and the other options can not. Hardman seems to be able to get open but for whatever reason pat does not trust him and rarely looks his way other than jet sweeps.

3. we can’t run the ball, mostly due to our tackles suck.

 

therefore teams double kelce, forcing juju to catch essentially short passes all the way downfield, hard to score that way before a tipped ball or something happens.

IMO, getting that oline squared away would fix a lot of the offenses woes. For whatever reason, EB/Reid seem to be unaware of the game being played at times. When the oline is leaking, I would think they call quicker, shorter routes with some screens and draws. However, it seems like they keep calling longer developing plays with straight dropbacks even when OBJ and Wylie are struggling.

Plus, IMO Pat is locking in on Kelce everytime (nothing new). MVS was thrown at once and caught one. Maybe no one else was getting open, hence Toney being brought in. But it seems like we get outcoached by Vrabel every single time we play.

[xen 1,010,220]

13 minutes ago, artsy said:

IMO, getting that oline squared away would fix a lot of the offenses woes. For whatever reason, EB/Reid seem to be unaware of the game being played at times. When the oline is leaking, I would think they call quicker, shorter routes with some screens and draws. However, it seems like they keep calling longer developing plays with straight dropbacks even when OBJ and Wylie are struggling.

Plus, IMO Pat is locking in on Kelce everytime (nothing new). MVS was thrown at once and caught one. Maybe no one else was getting open, hence Toney being brought in. But it seems like we get outcoached by Vrabel every single time we play.

How do you lock in on Kelce every time and throw 33 receptions to players not named Kelce in the same game?  Mahomes really is a magician.

No quick passes?

[artsy 1,137]

3 minutes ago, xen said:

How do you lock in on Kelce every time and throw 33 receptions to players not named Kelce in the same game?  Mahomes really is a magician.

No quick passes?

Based on what I'm seeing...Kelce is always his first read, then someone else (probably JuJu), then scramble around holding the ball...then back to Kelce.

Vrabel knew it and  took Kelce away the best he possibly could. Hence Pat holding onto the ball and the offense stalling all night. Furthermore, the LOS was domintated by the Titans so the run game was nonexistent. 

I don't neccesarily blame Pat for all of the offensive pain last night, cause Im sure  EB had a lot to do with it..Quick passes? We had a few quick hitters, but not nearly enough.

Hell, Pat threw the damn football almost 70 times!

[Thegoatee 1,780]

The inability to run the ball is what frustrates me the most. The game is truly all about Mahomes. No RB can bail KC out of a rough patch and make the defense honest to help Mahomes. It was the same crap Tampa was good at. Blitz never and get constant pressure and RBs cannot get one yard without having an arm or body on them.

Andy may not prefer to run, but if your OC is a former RB and that is the worst part of your offense, your OC isn’t worth much.

[artsy 1,137]

2 minutes ago, Thegoatee said:

The inability to run the ball is what frustrates me the most. The game is truly all about Mahomes. No RB can bail KC out of a rough patch and make the defense honest to help Mahomes. It was the same crap Tampa was good at. Blitz never and get constant pressure and RBs cannot get one yard without having an arm or body on them.

Andy may not prefer to run, but if your OC is a former RB and that is the worst part of your offense, your OC isn’t worth much.

Well, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I feel like Reid holds back on playcalling/gameplanning against teams we may see in the playoffs. Maybe not...Maybe teams that give us problems are just GOOD. We looked unstopable against SF. Pat was getting the ball out quick and we although SF had a superior defensive front, Reid kept them off balance the entire game. Last night??? There was not a lot of pre snap movement or anything to keep that defense off balance. We just kept running straight at them and dropping straight back?? 

IDK..we won so Yay.

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, artsy said:

Based on what I'm seeing...Kelce is always his first read, then someone else (probably JuJu), then scramble around holding the ball...then back to Kelce.

Vrabel knew it and  took Kelce away the best he possibly could. Hence Pat holding onto the ball and the offense stalling all night. Furthermore, the LOS was domintated by the Titans so the run game was nonexistent. 

I don't neccesarily blame Pat for all of the offensive pain last night, cause Im sure  EB had a lot to do with it..Quick passes? We had a few quick hitters, but not nearly enough.

Hell, Pat threw the damn football almost 70 times!

53 of the passes were inside around 10 or less yards from scrimmage.

[WichitaZRide 321]

19 minutes ago, Thegoatee said:

The inability to run the ball is what frustrates me the most. The game is truly all about Mahomes. No RB can bail KC out of a rough patch and make the defense honest to help Mahomes. It was the same crap Tampa was good at. Blitz never and get constant pressure and RBs cannot get one yard without having an arm or body on them.

Andy may not prefer to run, but if your OC is a former RB and that is the worst part of your offense, your OC isn’t worth much.

Its not rocket science, but Andy can't seem to figure it out.  Our 3 RBs average 5 foot 8 2/3  in height and 209 in weight.  The top 5 rbs in the nfl this season average 5 foot 11 3/4 in weight.  We need bigger backs that can bust through the line.  At least ONE.  little speedsters can't build a consistent running game

[kkuenn 3,598]

Just now, WichitaZRide said:

Its not rocket science, but Andy can't seem to figure it out.  Our 3 RBs average 5 foot 8 2/3  in height and 209 in weight.  The top 5 rbs in the nfl this season average 5 foot 11 3/4 in weight.  We need bigger backs that can bust through the line.  At least ONE.  little speedsters can't build a consistent running game

They can if you had a line that could open up lanes to run through.

[WichitaZRide 321]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

They can if you had a line that could open up lanes to run through.

Bears, Jaguars, Raiders, and Titans all have among the worst olines in the league...  and yet....   well you already know, i don' even have to finish...

[reesebobby 5,663]

2 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

Bears, Jaguars, Raiders, and Titans all have among the worst olines in the league...  and yet....   well you already know, i don' even have to finish...

I think when you reference the Bears, Jaguars, Raiders and Titans, your argument kind of collapses on itself.  

 

[WichitaZRide 321]

15 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

I think when you reference the Bears, Jaguars, Raiders and Titans, your argument kind of collapses on itself.  

 

They all have successful running games.... so your point?   I didn't know bad teams couldn't have pieces that are actually good....   I guess Tony Gonzalez was a shitty TE because he played for the Chiefs all those years and they sucked...

[jetlord 10,209]

One reason to be optimistic is that Jones's penalty didn't cost the Chiefs the game this time.  Is it that hard to not line up offsides?  

Also, are the refs wearing blinders when Kelce get nearly tackled downfield and not flag is thrown?  

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

2 hours ago, artsy said:

Based on what I'm seeing...Kelce is always his first read, then someone else (probably JuJu), then scramble around holding the ball...then back to Kelce.

Vrabel knew it and  took Kelce away the best he possibly could. Hence Pat holding onto the ball and the offense stalling all night. Furthermore, the LOS was domintated by the Titans so the run game was nonexistent. 

I don't neccesarily blame Pat for all of the offensive pain last night, cause Im sure  EB had a lot to do with it..Quick passes? We had a few quick hitters, but not nearly enough.

Hell, Pat threw the damn football almost 70 times!

locking in on a player and simply being his first read are two totally different things.  Yes Travis is the first check mark on a passing play, makes sense since he is pretty hard to stop and has the longest tenure so pat is 100% with him, patrick is hardly locking in on travis  yes we only heard MVS name once last night but lots of the rest

                                         REC    YDS    AVG    TD    LONG    TGTS

Travis Kelce	10	106	10.6	0	23	17
JuJu Smith-Schuster	10	88	8.8	0	17	12
Mecole Hardman	6	79	13.2	1	33	9
Noah Gray	3	45	15.0	0	27	3
Jerick McKinnon	6	40	6.7	0	16	8
Justin Watson	2	37	18.5	0	31	5
Clyde Edwards-Helaire	1	14	14.0	0	14	2
Marquez Valdes-Scantling	1	12	12.0	0	12	1
Kadarius Toney	2	12	6.0	0	10	2
Michael Burton	1	9	9.0	0	9	1
Isiah Pacheco	1	4	4.0	0	4	1
Skyy Moore	0	0	0.0	0	0	1
TEAM	43	446	10.4	1	33	62

[reesebobby 5,663]

4 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said:

They all have successful running games.... so your point?   I didn't know bad teams couldn't have pieces that are actually good....   I guess Tony Gonzalez was a shitty TE because he played for the Chiefs all those years and they sucked...

The point is how much resources should we devote to a project that doesn't really pay back in wins.  The Jags and Raiders are led by 1st round running backs.  Henry is a 2nd rounder.  You didn't mention the Browns, but Chubb is a 1st rounder on a 3-5 team that runs the ball well.  The Bears leading rusher is their 1st round quarterback.  It's not really that they can't have good pieces on a bad team, it's that they are devoting resources to being good at something that really doesn't pay back in wins.  All of them have linemen that are better run blockers than in pass protection.  It shows up in their sack percentages in each and every case.  If we really focus on becoming a top 10 rushing team, we need to run 7.50 yards per quarter more.  About 3 additional yards per drive in rushing. I just don't think you should devote much time and effort to taking the ball out of Mahomes hands.  

[WichitaZRide 321]

49 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

The point is how much resources should we devote to a project that doesn't really pay back in wins.  The Jags and Raiders are led by 1st round running backs.  Henry is a 2nd rounder.  You didn't mention the Browns, but Chubb is a 1st rounder on a 3-5 team that runs the ball well.  The Bears leading rusher is their 1st round quarterback.  It's not really that they can't have good pieces on a bad team, it's that they are devoting resources to being good at something that really doesn't pay back in wins.  All of them have linemen that are better run blockers than in pass protection.  It shows up in their sack percentages in each and every case.  If we really focus on becoming a top 10 rushing team, we need to run 7.50 yards per quarter more.  About 3 additional yards per drive in rushing. I just don't think you should devote much time and effort to taking the ball out of Mahomes hands.  

I don't disagree...  but that was never part of my discussion in the first place.  While mahomes is gonna end up dead armed at 30 if we make him throw 60+ times a game, we are still gonna need to run the ball.  If not we turn into the one dimensional team that the titans almost beat last night by dropping eveyrone into coverage knowing we aren't gonig to run.  That's how the colts beat us and that's how the bills beat us.  

I'm not sure i understand your comments about devoting resources either.  We have Pacheco and MiKinnon.  We also have RoJo and CEH.  All I'm saying that instead of having RoJo and CEH, we use that money to bring in a larger RB to mix things up.  Its no different than going from the small WRs we've had during the andy reid era like Tyreek to looking into bigger guys like MVS and Juju.  

[WichitaZRide 321]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

One reason to be optimistic is that Jones's penalty didn't cost the Chiefs the game this time.  Is it that hard to not line up offsides?  

Also, are the refs wearing blinders when Kelce get nearly tackled downfield and not flag is thrown?  

It was for the titans....  they had someone on the left side constantly lining up over.....  and yet no flag

[reesebobby 5,663]

Just now, WichitaZRide said:

I'm not sure i understand your comments about devoting resources either.  We have Pacheco and MiKinnon.  We also have RoJo and CEH.  

Those teams drafted running backs high (we did too and we all agree it was a mistake).  They spend a higher percentage of cap dollars on the run game.  Henry makes 9.3 million.  Chubb and Hunt combine for 12 million.  They use draft picks for linemen that fit the mold, superior run blockers, less good at pass blocking.    They devote more practice time and playbook time to the running game.  If one can consider a play a "resource" they are devoting those resources to running the ball.  We are good at passing, because that's our focus in free agency and trades.  We pay and extend those guys.  It's just a focus of the organization and that's where we have used our resources more.  

It's not to say you can't do better than we do in the running game.  We can and we should.  But our goal should be to win games and I don't think the Raiders, Bears and Jags are the place to look for advice.  

[mex 65,581]

5 hours ago, xen said:

How do you lock in on Kelce every time and throw 33 receptions to players not named Kelce in the same game?  Mahomes really is a magician.

No quick passes?

Good lord... 68 passes. If he were a major league pitcher, they would've had to pull him in the middle of the 3rd quarter. 

[Thegoatee 1,780]

When your QB sucks, you kind of have to run the ball well. I’d equate it to formations and gameplan though. KC doesn’t seem to have or practice a traditional running scheme. It is all smoke and mirrors, especially if they line up normally. Also, shotgun crap that is easy to diagnose and expose when you’ve got stay Puft marshmallow men at tackle.

[reesebobby 5,663]

12 minutes ago, mex said:

Good lord... 68 passes. If he were a major league pitcher, they would've had to pull him in the middle of the 3rd quarter. 

Has an NFL QB ever had Tommy John's?  I can't remember one.  Probably the throwing motion is so different that no?

[kkuenn 3,598]

23 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

Has an NFL QB ever had Tommy John's?  I can't remember one.  Probably the throwing motion is so different that no?

Jake Delhomme

[mex 65,581]

46 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

Has an NFL QB ever had Tommy John's?  I can't remember one.  Probably the throwing motion is so different that no?

It's like throwing a deuce. Just not 95 times a game.