Defense

[mex 65,581]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:47 PM, SEMO said:

They just have to figure out how “drag their asses across the finish line.”

I tell ya how they do that... fix that dismal turnover ratio. Really... that's all they need. We could use a legit ball hawk in the secondary to make guys like Burrow and Allen a little more uncomfortable throwing those 'up for grabs' balls that always seem to work against us on 3rd and long.

[Boone 304]

4 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Finishing plays

If the safeties aren’t going to have high-upside plays like turnovers, neither can they afford low-downside plays like missed tackles and blown coverages. They haven’t done much of the latter — but according to PFF, Reid is missing tackles at a rate of 17.6%. Thornhill is right behind at 16.4%. Reid’s mark is the eighth-worst among starting NFL safeties. In comparison, safety Tyrann Mathieu had a 10.2% rate in 2021.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/12/14/23505875/film-review-chiefs-defense-missing-playmaking-safeties

The bottom lin

I call shenanigans on that 2021 Mathieu stat. I saw plenty of plays where there was no attempted tackle, so those couldn't be counted as "missed tackles". If business decisions were taken into account, his rate would definitely have been higher. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, mex said:

I tell ya how they do that... fix that dismal turnover ratio. Really... that's all they need. We could use a legit ball hawk in the secondary to make guys like Burrow and Allen a little more uncomfortable throwing those 'up for grabs' balls that always seem to work against us on 3rd and long.

That and also make Mahomes NOT pass as often on 3rd and short.  It will also help to get our two speedsters, Hardman and Toney back in order to keep the defenders honest.

[oldtimer 8,686]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:56 PM, DefensiveMan said:

Need more production from DE's. Chiefs aren't getting anything there. 

our "Greek Freak" has gotten a sack in the last 3 games and I have been rather pleased with Dunlap  he may not be a sack machine but he has an uncanny knack for blocking passes

[oldtimer 8,686]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:09 AM, Lamardirts said:

I believe that Spag's best years came when he had elite players all across the defensive line.  If that front 4 can't get it done his D sucks.  We are in year 4 of experiencing this exact thing.  Did we need younger faster better secondary? Of course but it won't matter if our front 4 can't get home consistently vs good olines.   Only Chris Jones checks that box and we are wasting his career by not getting him some legit help.  Karlaftis might develop into that guy but he isn't there now.    The stats would make you think our D dominated yesterday but the reality is they took advantage of some possessions then gave up first downs on 3rd and 20 plus and tds vs an anemic pathetic O.   

does that  not go with most DC's best years from Buddy Ryan to Gunther's first stint with the Chiefs or _____. Find me one  top #5 D that did not have at least  2-3 dominate players

[Holmes4six! 968]

How does the draft look as to DE,DT and saftey ? LT as well. 
I know we may not be selecting top DE but is it deep in these positions ? 
Asking everyone. 
I think we have 10-12 picks? 
 

[oldtimer 8,686]

25 minutes ago, Holmes4six! said:

How does the draft look as to DE,DT and saftey ? LT as well. 
I know we may not be selecting top DE but is it deep in these positions ? 
Asking everyone. 
I think we have 10-12 picks? 
 

we'll have less I'd assume as I expect Veach to trade up 

[kkuenn 3,597]

4 hours ago, Holmes4six! said:

How does the draft look as to DE,DT and saftey ? LT as well. 
I know we may not be selecting top DE but is it deep in these positions ? 
Asking everyone. 
I think we have 10-12 picks? 
 

This before some underclassmen declare too. Pay article from espn but the first part helps.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/34583992/nfl-draft-2023-ranking-deepest-position-groups-class-first-rounders-midround-risers-including-quarterback-wide-receiver?platform=amp

The 2023 class features a plethora of quarterbacks, a running back group that could put a pair of players in the first round and excellent depth across the defensive positions, with star power at pass-rusher, defensive tackle, linebacker and cornerback. But what are the deepest position groups? Which positions offer up excellent prospects from the top of the first round right down through the midrounds?

Let's rank and take a closer look at the five deepest positions, including a loaded group of signal-callers that could rival other recent stacked classes. We'll also pick out the thinnest position in the class and explain why it could be a problem for some NFL teams looking for young upgrades.

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

DE, WR and CB are deep for sure. Think if we get a FA at DT that can play and a OT we can go into the draft to fill the need at DE, WR and such. 

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/early-look-what-positions-are-strong-2023-nfl-draft/

[Holmes4six! 968]

22 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

This before some underclassmen declare too. Pay article from eapn but the first part helps.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/34583992/nfl-draft-2023-ranking-deepest-position-groups-class-first-rounders-midround-risers-including-quarterback-wide-receiver?platform=amp

The 2023 class features a plethora of quarterbacks, a running back group that could put a pair of players in the first round and excellent depth across the defensive positions, with star power at pass-rusher, defensive tackle, linebacker and cornerback. But what are the deepest position groups? Which positions offer up excellent prospects from the top of the first round right down through the midrounds?

Let's rank and take a closer look at the five deepest positions, including a loaded group of signal-callers that could rival other recent stacked classes. We'll also pick out the thinnest position in the class and explain why it could be a problem for some NFL teams looking for young upgrades.

 

Awesome. Thank you. 

[Calichief 3,016]

Harris over gay today was maddening. He should never get snaps over gay 

[azchief21 5,278]

It's disappointing that veach has been here since 2017 and has acquired an above average DE. An annual weakness. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

We need to get a stud like this. Play right away and make an impact. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

So spags played Harris instead of gay for majority of the game? 

[oldtimer 8,686]

9 hours ago, Holmes4six! said:

We need to get a stud like this. Play right away and make an impact. 

he was the 5th in the draft.. you want to have a suck season that bad? I dont. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

12 hours ago, azchief21 said:

It's disappointing that veach has been here since 2017 and has acquired an above average DE. An annual weakness. 

Considering how few there are each year which puts DE's high in the draft, and with the Chiefs being perennially good and drafting lower than the best DE's available, it really isn't for Veach's lack of trying. Other teams are loathe to let a good DE slip away in free agency and will pay anything to keep them.

I have a hunch that the top DE's going to the worst teams explains the ambush games against teams with great QB's,

[AFCWEST 1,238]

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

he was the 5th in the draft.. you want to have a suck season that bad? I dont. 

Trade up? Chiefs have plenty of picks. I would consider two firsts and more for the elite ready to rock guy.

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

Trade up? Chiefs have plenty of picks. I would consider two firsts and more for the elite ready to rock guy.

or just pay one in FA. I mean a guy you know is good to play in the NFL and not take a chance on getting a bust of a pick that you over paid for to take that high. DE or DT I would love to address in FA. Get that done and the picks can be BPA then go for the developmental type guys etc.

[DieHard 2,061]

12 hours ago, Holmes4six! said:

So spags played Harris instead of gay for majority of the game? 

No. Gay had 46 snaps and Harris got 9. 

[artsy 1,137]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

or just pay one in FA. I mean a guy you know is good to play in the NFL and not take a chance on getting a bust of a pick that you over paid for to take that high. DE or DT I would love to address in FA. Get that done and the picks can be BPA then go for the developmental type guys etc.

Yup, that would be my plan. Veech has not been very good at drafting DEs. Although to be fair, picking in the 30s is not usually going to net you too many impact players. 

I would do just KKuenn said...Pay for a YOUNG, proven DE and DT in FA. Trade up and grab your new cornerstone at LT, extend CJ95, pay JuJu what he's worth, and roll on!

Veech is not going to get a playmaker at DE drafting/picking in the 30s...Hell not even in the 20s. The real impact DEs typically go in the top 10-15 picks.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

12 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

or just pay one in FA. I mean a guy you know is good to play in the NFL and not take a chance on getting a bust of a pick that you over paid for to take that high. DE or DT I would love to address in FA. Get that done and the picks can be BPA then go for the developmental type guys etc.

Chiefs have too many high priced guys to pay. Trading picks for a rookie contract elite player is a better option. Sure the cap is going up. Problem is it goes up for everyone and teams like the Raiders think its monopoly money.

Some here have stated unrealistic cap room for KC next season.

So if there is a quote cant miss guy trade up and draft him. Free agency is no guarantee either. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

Chiefs have too many high priced guys to pay. Trading picks for a rookie contract elite player is a better option. 

also giving away picks for a guy that is unproven can be destructive too for the future. Chiefs have many guys now on rookie deals. Pay the majority of the contract out front and roll with it for a few years. We are in great position having cap space and many picks and not having mortgage any of those in the future picks too. We are in great position to sign away and we lose Clarks high priced contract this off season. If he is replaced with a much better DE at his price he had, we will be even better come draft time.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

7 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

also giving away picks for a guy that is unproven can be destructive too for the future. Chiefs have many guys now on rookie deals. Pay the majority of the contract out front and roll with it for a few years. We are in great position having cap space and many picks and not having mortgage any of those in the future picks too. We are in great position to sign away and we lose Clarks high priced contract this off season. If he is replaced with a much better DE at his price he had, we will be even better come draft time.

Wishful thinking. Clark is at 15 million. I dont see a Bosa type guy signing for 15 million. Everything is a risk. Chiefs dont need another 10+ player draft. 

I would get the top defensive guy in the draft if  a DE that is elite is not available. Chiefs need help in all areas on defense. They have plenty of  average NFL players. They need more play makers at all levels. They need to pay Jones & Shuster. Sadly they probably keep Brown. I think its 20+ million on a franchise tag.

Heck SF is winning with Mr Irrelevant at QB. Pacheko was a 7th round pick. Nothing is guaranteed. Everything has risk. We know what Jones and Shuster can do.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Veach and DE picks. Finding a great DE is almost as difficult as an Elite QB. You dont get them late in round one. You move up to #10 and draft elite, potential, players like Mahomes. You get projects or injured players late in round one

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

Wishful thinking. Clark is at 15 million. I dont see a Bosa type guy signing for 15 million. Everything is a risk. Chiefs dont need another 10+ player draft. 

His contract was re negotiated. What then, as you said yourself "Chiefs have too many high priced guys to pay"  are these guys you speak of? Kelce is signed, Mahomes is signed, Jones we will pay and should on a contract, but is already making great money. Our D consist of LBs that are making peanuts and will get paid on line as I dont see them as bank busters. Our CB/and S groups are really all new and underpaid or like Reid at S paid at the market price. Our O line has one contract on it at great pay in Thuney. I really dont see all that much this next year, where we will have to pay out the ass in contracts that we cant afford another one at DE.

Remember we can get up to 120 mil in cap space if we want and that can pay off many guaranteed/bonus money etc up front. This means the later years, which is usually cutable, can be done so at a great no risk for dead space type money. Veach has really set all this up nicely by not overpaying and looking to the future. The draft picks will just keep us rolling on rookie deals and set us up even better. Plus you dont have to possibly bust on a DE pick, or have one that takes 2 to 3 years to develop even if a high pick. Then watch him leave when he gets good but we dont want to pay him etc like Dee Ford scenario, who was not a high 1st but 23rd overall.