Defense

[artsy 1,137]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

Veach and DE picks. Finding a great DE is almost as difficult as an Elite QB. You dont get them late in round one. You move up to #10 and draft elite, potential, players like Mahomes. You get projects or injured players late in round one

Going from 29 to 10 in the draft is going to cost a LOT.  However, going from 29 to 19 may not cost that much..for a LT.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

8 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

His contract was re negotiated. What then, as you said yourself "Chiefs have too many high priced guys to pay"  are these guys you speak of? Kelce is signed, Mahomes is signed, Jones we will pay and should on a contract, but is already making great money. Our D consist of LBs that are making peanuts and will get paid on line as I dont see them as bank busters. Our CB/and S groups are really all new and underpaid or like Reid at S paid at the market price. Our O line has one contract on it at great pay in Thuney. I really dont see all that much this next year, where we will have to pay out the ass in contracts that we cant afford another one at DE.

Remember we can get up to 120 mil in cap space if we want and that can pay off many guaranteed/bonus money etc up front. This means the later years, which is usually cutable, can be done so at a great no risk for dead space type money. Veach has really set all this up nicely by not overpaying and looking to the future. The draft picks will just keep us rolling on rookie deals and set us up even better. Plus you dont have to possibly bust on a DE pick, or have one that takes 2 to 3 years to develop even if a high pick. Then watch him leave when he gets good but we dont want to pay him etc like Dee Ford scenario, who was not a high 1st but 23rd overall.

We disagree and that 120 million in cap space is fake news. Show me 120 million please.

Free agents are always an over pay. Reid at safety is not good. He was not good in Houston. 

The defense still sucks. It just got toasted by two of the most pathetic offenses in NFL history. I dont blame Veach. The current strategy of drafting on D is not working. Why? No real elite draft picks. That has been used mostly for offense. Yes McDufee may become elite. Nice trade up.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

2 minutes ago, artsy said:

Going from 29 to 10 in the draft is going to cost a LOT.  However, going from 29 to 19 may not cost that much..for a LT.

Is there an elite player at 19? Maybe. Chiefs need to decide on Brown before the draft so LT may not be a need.

Chiefs will be at 32 as SB Champs! 

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

Is there an elite player at 19? Maybe. Chiefs need to decide on Brown before the draft so LT may not be a need.

Chiefs will be at 32 as SB Champs! 

Haha..Yea, I wouldn't be mad at all if they we're picking at 32. Do you feel like they should just settle for another year or worse, a contract with OBJ?

I don't..Take that money along with some of Clarks, and pay the best FA DE and DT you can find/afford..

Draft the second best LT in the draft  with your first pick and go with that..

[AFCWEST 1,238]

8 minutes ago, artsy said:

Haha..Yea, I wouldn't be mad at all if they we're picking at 32. Do you feel like they should just settle for another year or worse, a contract with OBJ?

I don't..Take that money along with some of Clarks, and pay the best FA DE and DT you can find/afford..

Draft the second best LT in the draft  with your first pick and go with that..

I would dump OBJ. Lots of teams are playing in this years play offs with back up left tackles. LT is not as critical to Mahomes  health as some think. Either way Brown has played like a back up. Mahomes is still standing and the Chiefs are 11-3

May get a nice comp pick? 

[artsy 1,137]

9 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

I would dump OBJ. Lots of teams are playing in this years play offs with back up left tackles. LT is not as critical to Mahomes  health as some think. Either way Brown has played like a back up. Mahomes is still standing and the Chiefs are 11-3

May get a nice comp pick? 

Yup...The offense would be more effective with just an average LT (think Eric Fisher). I bet we can get that type of player picking somewhere in the high teens, low 20s. Mahomes is still young and good enough to make average WRs play effective. A solid young LT COULD anchor that spot till Mahomes' 10 year contract is up. (hopefully extended another 10yrs)

[oldtimer 8,686]

Yikes  even if the Chiefs cut Machinegun Clark next year it'd be $9M in dead cap space

[artsy 1,137]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Yikes  even if the Chiefs cut Machinegun Clark next year it'd be $9M in dead cap space

Yea, that was a bad deal. I'm sure Veech thought it would work out..

BUT it didn't...

[AFCWEST 1,238]

4 minutes ago, artsy said:

Yea, that was a bad deal. I'm sure Veech thought it would work out..

BUT it didn't...

I think Clark gave that money up in his restructured deal? 

[oldtimer 8,686]

3 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

I think Clark gave that money up in his restructured deal? 

google is your friend

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/frank-clark-16787/

[azchief21 5,278]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Considering how few there are each year which puts DE's high in the draft, and with the Chiefs being perennially good and drafting lower than the best DE's available, it really isn't for Veach's lack of trying. Other teams are loathe to let a good DE slip away in free agency and will pay anything to keep them.

I have a hunch that the top DE's going to the worst teams explains the ambush games against teams with great QB's,

There are other ways to get a DE besides waiting for your assigned draft spot. And again, it's been since 2017

[Lamardirts 2,114]

3 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

We disagree and that 120 million in cap space is fake news. Show me 120 million please.

Free agents are always an over pay. Reid at safety is not good. He was not good in Houston. 

The defense still sucks. It just got toasted by two of the most pathetic offenses in NFL history. I dont blame Veach. The current strategy of drafting on D is not working. Why? No real elite draft picks. That has been used mostly for offense. Yes McDufee may become elite. Nice trade up.

I imagine its possible.  overthecap.com I cut Frank, post june 1 cut MVS, extended CJ and converted his salary to bonus and restructured Mahomes and got to 102,000,000.  Butker gets you to 105.  Thuney could be extended and Kelce could as well.  Just showing its possible but I pray we never do that.  

What is most likely is cutting Clark, post June cut MVS, and extending CJ to give us 71 million.  Sneed will need to be signed to an extension this offseason as well so 15 million ish per year to sign him?  CB market is odd though so who knows.  I'd say we will have around $55 million to spend on LT, RT, DE, WR, DT and then S, RB, and added DL.  Problem is this FA class sucks for our needs an we are hosting the draft so I don't see us trading tons of picks for vets.   

[kkuenn 3,597]

3 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

We disagree and that 120 million in cap space is fake news. Show me 120 million please.

Free agents are always an over pay. Reid at safety is not good. He was not good in Houston. 

The defense still sucks. It just got toasted by two of the most pathetic offenses in NFL history. I dont blame Veach. The current strategy of drafting on D is not working. Why? No real elite draft picks. That has been used mostly for offense. Yes McDufee may become elite. Nice trade up.

Showed you in the other post too. Chiefs will have 12th highest cap space next year at over 28 mil. If they do restructuring they have a lot more.

 

 

[oldtimer 8,686]

46 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I imagine its possible.  overthecap.com I cut Frank, post june 1 cut MVS, extended CJ and converted his salary to bonus and restructured Mahomes and got to 102,000,000.  Butker gets you to 105.  Thuney could be extended and Kelce could as well.  Just showing its possible but I pray we never do that.  

What is most likely is cutting Clark, post June cut MVS, and extending CJ to give us 71 million.  Sneed will need to be signed to an extension this offseason as well so 15 million ish per year to sign him?  CB market is odd though so who knows.  I'd say we will have around $55 million to spend on LT, RT, DE, WR, DT and then S, RB, and added DL.  Problem is this FA class sucks for our needs an we are hosting the draft so I don't see us trading tons of picks for vets.   

are you taking into consideration the $9M in dead cap for Clark and $4M for MVS?

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

are you taking into consideration the $9M in dead cap for Clark and $4M for MVS?

Hence the post 1 June cut for clark.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

are you taking into consideration the $9M in dead cap for Clark and $4M for MVS?

I am.

Remember google is your friend so is overthecap.com.

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just now, Lamardirts said:

I am.

Remember google is your friend so is overthecap.com.

Dementia is a hell of a thing huh? Lmao jk

[Lamardirts 2,114]

37 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Hence the post 1 June cut for clark.

There was no option for that on overthecap.com. So I just cut him outright in 2023.  We start with 28million in space and the Clark cut saves 19.6 million so while 9 million sucks we would eat it next year and then finally be rid of the Clark deal.

[kkuenn 3,597]

5 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

There was no option for that on overthecap.com. So I just cut him outright in 2023.  We start with 28million in space and the Clark cut saves 19.6 million so while 9 million sucks we would eat it next year and then finally be rid of the Clark deal.

Well wonder which one saves us the most? 

[dhitter 1,424]

The defense is littered with issues. Whereas I think the Chiefs are slightly better against the run than in years past....they are very bad against the pass. DBs are around the targets but not making plays on the ball enough. That accounts for two things. Low turnovers and high completion % against. Chiefs front still struggling with one on one matchups. Will it ever change? 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

No team is without weaknesses.  No team can pay for a roster of superbowl quality for very long without going through a rebuild frequently.  The Chiefs have the right formula which is the only one that will work and maintain sustained success (like 7 consecutive AFC championships).  That is to get the best QB in the world (done), provide him with several playmakers and a competent O-line, get a few true playmakers on defense, and fill out the roster with first contract guys who are coached into being good by the best coaching staff and head coach.  Remember, coaches cost a lot less than these players.  The most efficient expenditure of money is on the coaching staff.  This formula will work for the length of the career of a great franchise QB. It will always require partial rebuilds and will always produce a roster that has a couple of glaring weaknesses.  No GM is going to change the truth of that.  No set of fans is going to be happy with everything and will blame the GM, coordinators and position coaches for every weakness. As long as we have Mahomes, we will be one of the top teams.  It's just that simple.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

3 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Dementia is a hell of a thing huh? Lmao jk

I don't know.  I can't remember.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

3 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

No team is without weaknesses.  No team can pay for a roster of superbowl quality for very long without going through a rebuild frequently.  The Chiefs have the right formula which is the only one that will work and maintain sustained success (like 7 consecutive AFC championships).  That is to get the best QB in the world (done), provide him with several playmakers and a competent O-line, get a few true playmakers on defense, and fill out the roster with first contract guys who are coached into being good by the best coaching staff and head coach.  Remember, coaches cost a lot less than these players.  The most efficient expenditure of money is on the coaching staff.  This formula will work for the length of the career of a great franchise QB. It will always require partial rebuilds and will always produce a roster that has a couple of glaring weaknesses.  No GM is going to change the truth of that.  No set of fans is going to be happy with everything and will blame the GM, coordinators and position coaches for every weakness. As long as we have Mahomes, we will be one of the top teams.  It's just that simple.

I agree with this strategy and approach.  Drafting and player development are super important for this model to work.  I think we have drafted pretty well overall, but our player development outside of the secondary has been suspect.  Not sure our defensive scheme is as relevant as it was 20 years ago.   Same can be said for the Oline as well.  

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Leo Chenal, Linebacker (Round 3, Pick 103)

Between Weeks 9 and 14, Leo Chenal only played 40 snaps on defense, but he played 27 snaps against the Texans. 12 were on run defense, he blitzed on one, and was in coverage for 14. He was targeted once in coverage but allowed a 15-yard reception to Amari Rodgers. Against the run. Chenal was incredible. In just 12 run defense snaps, he had five tackles, including four defensive stops (tackles that constitute a “failure” for the offense).

Chenal was scouted as a strong run defender coming out of Wisconsin and Week 15 proved that. If he can play as well as he did on Sunday going forward, the Chiefs’ run defense problems may get a little better.

[oldtimer 8,686]

^^^ he's listed at 6'3" 260 but sure dont look it to me. I hope the kid pans out and is as advertised