Trenches

[Palangi 788]

The draft this year needs to be about the trenches. Real heavy on lineman. Both sides of the ball. With 12 picks I would bring in 2 ends and 2 DTs. 
I would bring in two offensive tackles. If we really don’t believe Kinnard is a tackle then start training him at LG. He can be Thuney replacement when we need the money and trade Thuney. Putting that much money into a guard isn’t the best idea. That money will need to move over to Humphrey in a couple years. 
 

We need to get more physical up front on both sides. For a big as obj is he isn’t very physical and Wylie is incapable of being physical. He might try but can’t

[Docbarnabee 225]

I think we need a speed rusher or two. Another Tackle. We should be looking at WR as there will be a depth problem. Do understand that we will have to be lucky as hell to land someone in the trenches that moves the needle. Those guys generally are found in the top 15 picks and we will not be picking there.

 

 

 

 

 

[oldtimer 8,686]

Tackles are a definite weakness Veach's revamp on the edges has not worked

[arthur75 415]

The onnly way to fix D-line is in Free agency. Need a true #1 WR also.

[DieHard 2,061]

We had done a pretty good job rushing the passer and pass blocking at times, but the pass rush was just not there this game. 
Not sure what we do in the off season, but I can’t see Wiley starting next year.

[timmy_6262 77]

Veach really needs to look long and hard about trading Jones this offseason just like Hill.  I like Jones but he costs way too much for him to just disappear in the playoffs and big games.  His 25+ million salary could easily go towards a LT, RT, or WR.  Trade him while still under team control and under 30 just like Hill.  We could easily get a 2nd maybe more for him.  They always say the contract year is undefeated and when you look at Jones stats season by season its easy to tell when there is a lot of contract talk.  I'm just worried his next contract will be absolutely massive and he will just keep on disappearing on the biggest stages and we will be stuck with is ridiculous contract for 5 more years.

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, timmy_6262 said:

Veach really needs to look long and hard about trading Jones this offseason just like Hill.  I like Jones but he costs way too much for him to just disappear in the playoffs and big games.  His 25+ million salary could easily go towards a LT, RT, or WR.  Trade him while still under team control and under 30 just like Hill.  We could easily get a 2nd maybe more for him.  They always say the contract year is undefeated and when you look at Jones stats season by season its easy to tell when there is a lot of contract talk.  I'm just worried his next contract will be absolutely massive and he will just keep on disappearing on the biggest stages and we will be stuck with is ridiculous contract for 5 more years.

Part of the issue with jones is he gets double and triple teamed because nobody else can win their one on one battles. Especially at DT next to him

[Palangi 788]

8 hours ago, Docbarnabee said:

I think we need a speed rusher or two. Another Tackle. We should be looking at WR as there will be a depth problem. Do understand that we will have to be lucky as hell to land someone in the trenches that moves the needle. Those guys generally are found in the top 15 picks and we will not be picking there.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree WR needs to be looked at also. I have high hopes for Justyn Ross though.  He was a first round talent that just needed to get healthy. I’m hoping this gamble pays off. I was also impressed with what Toney has shown. But like Niang, can he stay healthy. 
 

Edwards and smith-marsette bring intrigue also.  

[azchief21 5,278]

It's a shame we have talented CBs and LBs sandwiched between below average DL & safeties. Couldn't get to the QB, They ran well when needed and our safeties were terrible. OTs are matadors. We get handled in the trenches weekly

[Palangi 788]

2 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

It's a shame we have talented CBs and LBs sandwiched between below average DL & safeties. Couldn't get to the QB, They ran well when needed and our safeties were terrible. OTs are matadors. We get handled in the trenches weekly

I think it’s time to start Cook. He is a physical safety but has good ball skills. 
Thornhill seems to be taking the Matthieu route off play this year. 

[Calichief 3,016]

The safeties make ZERO plays. 

[DieHard 2,061]

3 hours ago, timmy_6262 said:

Veach really needs to look long and hard about trading Jones this offseason just like Hill.  I like Jones but he costs way too much for him to just disappear in the playoffs and big games.  His 25+ million salary could easily go towards a LT, RT, or WR.  Trade him while still under team control and under 30 just like Hill.  We could easily get a 2nd maybe more for him.  They always say the contract year is undefeated and when you look at Jones stats season by season its easy to tell when there is a lot of contract talk.  I'm just worried his next contract will be absolutely massive and he will just keep on disappearing on the biggest stages and we will be stuck with is ridiculous contract for 5 more years.

For a team that struggles to get pressure, trading your only good pass rusher and only double digit sack guy for a second round pick makes zero sense to me.

[DieHard 2,061]

38 minutes ago, Calichief said:

The safeties make ZERO plays. 

 By far the worst group on the D. So glad Reid dominated like he said he would. 

[Calichief 3,016]

1 minute ago, DieHard said:

 By far the worst group on the D. So glad Reid dominated like he said he would. 

I mean seriously, they don’t even break up passes or anything. I’m trying to remember 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I started this post last night but thought I would wait and let the frustration wear off before I posted it.   Spags doesn't miss tackles and getting mad at him for not teaching tackling is ridiculous (This is the NFL every player should know better).   However, this is year 4 and while we have more talent this year it feels like our D is the same as the previous 4 years he has been the DC.  We can't stop anyone when we need to.  Our D is soft and can't tackle.   We draft/sign big slow DE's that fit Spags scheme and criteria because he wants his DE's to be good vs the run but ours aren't that great vs the run and have no bend or pass rush ability to win 1v1.  Last night Chris Jones got doubled and tripled and nobody did anything.   I know a previous poster mentioned trading Chris Jones and maybe get a 2nd.  Chris Jones is a top 2 DT in the NFL with no help....none.  Trading him makes our team worse.  There isn't a player outside of an elite DE that would make that trade a net positive for our team.  No one is trading us a Nick Bosa for Chris Jones.  You have to pay players on your team and he is elite.  Pay him and maybe just maybe go out and get a pair of pass rushers to pair with him.   Aaron Donald gets so much praise, rightfully so, but this is the first year in a long time he doesn't have elite players around him and his numbers look eerily similar to CJ95 who has spend his entire year minus one or two with hot garbage around him.  I don't blame Veach for not overpaying for older edges but it looks like that approach might end up costing us a chip.  Again not to upset because Frank Clark was such a horrible contract so I would be gun shy too and I generally feel the plan was a soft rebuild to get younger, faster and cheaper.  A DE that can win 1v1 frequently is a must. 

We addressed secondary this offseason and got some young studs, but it won't matter if we keep drafting slow hulking DE's in an NFL that is all about quick passing.  As bad as our tackles have been our offense is still putting up 30 a game with a group 2/3's at wrs and Kelce.  Finding an upgrade at RT won't be hard and even if we stuck with OBJ at a reasonable price (He is playing slightly above avg lately minus last night.  The O will keep chugging along.  Keep drafting wrs in the middle rounds.

This offseason has one prioity. Veach needs to find a pair of stud DE's to pair with Karlaftis (Who looks like another stiff, slow, high motor DE who will get you coverage sacks but rarely outright beats his man).  DE is the most important position of need on this team and it isn't close.  Then RT, LT, WR, and then S in that order.  

Finally, our safeties might be worse than last year.  The early reports on the Reid signing are bad.  Thornhill running his mouth about being an all pro are laughable and Reid (Who is a very intelligent dude) running his mouth before this game and then both players to be absolutely irrelevent is pathetic.  Thornhill should be benched.  Missed mulitple 3rd down tackles that could have ended drives.   Not sure if there is a vet safety waiting in FA but I would kick the tires.  

We have endured poor defensive play for so long now that we all get excited when we see slightly below avg d and we talk ourselves into believing its above avg and even good.  We have no killer instinct and rely on a juggernaut offense to put teams in a one dimensional mode to help.   

Now I say all that to say the O had two opportunities to win this game outright and choked.  Kelce's fumble and that last offensive possession.  Yes the D is a soft wet paper bag but the O should have won that game for us.   So it was an ugly loss to a very good team by a whopping 3 points.  Some of these things can get fixed and some cannot during the season.   Thankfully we were in a position to win even with those mistakes and soft play.  Hopefully enough can get fixed to win next time.

[artsy 1,137]

20 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I started this post last night but thought I would wait and let the frustration wear off before I posted it.   Spags doesn't miss tackles and getting mad at him for not teaching tackling is ridiculous (This is the NFL every player should know better).   However, this is year 4 and while we have more talent this year it feels like our D is the same as the previous 4 years he has been the DC.  We can't stop anyone when we need to.  Our D is soft and can't tackle.   We draft/sign big slow DE's that fit Spags scheme and criteria because he wants his DE's to be good vs the run but ours aren't that great vs the run and have no bend or pass rush ability to win 1v1.  Last night Chris Jones got doubled and tripled and nobody did anything.   I know a previous poster mentioned trading Chris Jones and maybe get a 2nd.  Chris Jones is a top 2 DT in the NFL with no help....none.  Trading him makes our team worse.  There isn't a player outside of an elite DE that would make that trade a net positive for our team.  No one is trading us a Nick Bosa for Chris Jones.  You have to pay players on your team and he is elite.  Pay him and maybe just maybe go out and get a pair of pass rushers to pair with him.   Aaron Donald gets so much praise, rightfully so, but this is the first year in a long time he doesn't have elite players around him and his numbers look eerily similar to CJ95 who has spend his entire year minus one or two with hot garbage around him.  I don't blame Veach for not overpaying for older edges but it looks like that approach might end up costing us a chip.  Again not to upset because Frank Clark was such a horrible contract so I would be gun shy too and I generally feel the plan was a soft rebuild to get younger, faster and cheaper.  A DE that can win 1v1 frequently is a must. 

We addressed secondary this offseason and got some young studs, but it won't matter if we keep drafting slow hulking DE's in an NFL that is all about quick passing.  As bad as our tackles have been our offense is still putting up 30 a game with a group 2/3's at wrs and Kelce.  Finding an upgrade at RT won't be hard and even if we stuck with OBJ at a reasonable price (He is playing slightly above avg lately minus last night.  The O will keep chugging along.  Keep drafting wrs in the middle rounds.

This offseason has one prioity. Veach needs to find a pair of stud DE's to pair with Karlaftis (Who looks like another stiff, slow, high motor DE who will get you coverage sacks but rarely outright beats his man).  DE is the most important position of need on this team and it isn't close.  Then RT, LT, WR, and then S in that order.  

Finally, our safeties might be worse than last year.  The early reports on the Reid signing are bad.  Thornhill running his mouth about being an all pro are laughable and Reid (Who is a very intelligent dude) running his mouth before this game and then both players to be absolutely irrelevent is pathetic.  Thornhill should be benched.  Missed mulitple 3rd down tackles that could have ended drives.   Not sure if there is a vet safety waiting in FA but I would kick the tires.  

We have endured poor defensive play for so long now that we all get excited when we see slightly below avg d and we talk ourselves into believing its above avg and even good.  We have no killer instinct and rely on a juggernaut offense to put teams in a one dimensional mode to help.   

Now I say all that to say the O had two opportunities to win this game outright and choked.  Kelce's fumble and that last offensive possession.  Yes the D is a soft wet paper bag but the O should have won that game for us.   So it was an ugly loss to a very good team by a whopping 3 points.  Some of these things can get fixed and some cannot during the season.   Thankfully we were in a position to win even with those mistakes and soft play.  Hopefully enough can get fixed to win next time.

Well said, Dirts.....Well said.

[moons314 2,463]

44 minutes ago, DieHard said:

For a team that struggles to get pressure, trading your only good pass rusher and only double digit sack guy for a second round pick makes zero sense to me.

It does when you look at it through the lens of freeing up 20 million next year.  His cap hit if we keep him is 28 mill but if we trade or cut, we have 7 million dead.  I’m getting closer to the opinion of burn the front down and start over. 

[artsy 1,137]

Just now, artsy said:

Well said, Dirts.....Well said.

However, I'm not sure I really trust Veech to draft a DE. His record on DEs have been nothing short of horrible. I would rather cut bait with Clark and take that money  to sign a proven FA DE.  Then draft the best LT available. We have to get a pass rusher!! I knew that weakness was gonna rear its head at some point during the regular season..and especially in the playoffs. 

I am pleasantly surprised by the young DBs...even Williams. He's a sticky DB that just has to learn to make plays on the ball..I think he'll end up being a little better than Ward. 

But KC has to get a real DE and a run stuffing DT. Those two players would push the defense up a few notches easily. 

Finally, I really think its time for EB and Spags to move on....Everyone in the league has figured out EB's playcalling tendacies...Run on 1st down...Pass (Throw to Kelce) on 2nd and 3rd downs... Cincy dared the chiefs to run the ball again yesterday, and although KC did run the ball more than normal, they needed to do it even more. But Reid/EB and Pat just could not help themselves.

Pat loves the big play. If Andy leaves it up to Pat, Pat will likely always look for the big play. Mckinnon was standing to his left for the first down, and Pat looked right at him, then proceeded to run up in the pocket looking for the big play instead OF TAKING WHAT CINCY GAVE HIM.  

I guess I have to give Zac Taylor credit for technically Outcoaching Reid..Three times in a row now.

Would we be having this discussion if Kelce doesn't fumble and we take a 10 point lead and win the game?? Probably not. And quite frankly there's nothing they can do about the shitty Dline and safeties now, but hopefully Reid and co. will watch this game tape and actually address a few of the offensive shortcomings that happened in the game.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, Calichief said:

The safeties make ZERO plays. 

They really don't. It's like they aren't even there.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

23 minutes ago, artsy said:

However, I'm not sure I really trust Veech to draft a DE. His record on DEs have been nothing short of horrible. I would rather cut bait with Clark and take that money  to sign a proven FA DE.  Then draft the best LT available. We have to get a pass rusher!! I knew that weakness was gonna rear its head at some point during the regular season..and especially in the playoffs. 

I am pleasantly surprised by the young DBs...even Williams. He's a sticky DB that just has to learn to make plays on the ball..I think he'll end up being a little better than Ward. 

But KC has to get a real DE and a run stuffing DT. Those two players would push the defense up a few notches easily. 

Finally, I really think its time for EB and Spags to move on....Everyone in the league has figured out EB's playcalling tendacies...Run on 1st down...Pass (Throw to Kelce) on 2nd and 3rd downs... Cincy dared the chiefs to run the ball again yesterday, and although KC did run the ball more than normal, they needed to do it even more. But Reid/EB and Pat just could not help themselves.

Pat loves the big play. If Andy leaves it up to Pat, Pat will likely always look for the big play. Mckinnon was standing to his left for the first down, and Pat looked right at him, then proceeded to run up in the pocket looking for the big play instead OF TAKING WHAT CINCY GAVE HIM.  

I guess I have to give Zac Taylor credit for technically Outcoaching Reid..Three times in a row now.

Would we be having this discussion if Kelce doesn't fumble and we take a 10 point lead and win the game?? Probably not. And quite frankly there's nothing they can do about the shitty Dline and safeties now, but hopefully Reid and co. will watch this game tape and actually address a few of the offensive shortcomings that happened in the game.

You dont have a choice but to trust him to draft a DE. He isn't going anywhere and we aren't going to give out a Von Miller or Chandler Jones contract. In their prime DEs don't see the market. 

You arent wrong. Veach has not done a good enough job of adding talent to our d line over the yrs. But I think we are going to see an offseason where we finally go balls deep into rebuilding our defensive line.

[artsy 1,137]

11 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

You dont have a choice but to trust him to draft a DE. He isn't going anywhere and we aren't going to give out a Von Miller or Chandler Jones contract. In their prime DEs don't see the market. 

You arent wrong. Veach has not done a good enough job of adding talent to our d line over the yrs. But I think we are going to see an offseason where we finally go balls deep into rebuilding our defensive line.

But if we go "balls deep", do you really think we're gonna "bust a nut"?? 

I don't trust him to draft even a serviceable DE or DT. You are right, we don't have too many choices, but I would rather him pay top dollar to proven FA DE, versus using a 1st or 2nd rd pick on one just to be...Kaindoh, Kpass, Mike Dana, George Karloftis..etc...

I mean, now that I think about it....He also signed one...Franklin Clark.

Sooooo, damn.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

It does when you look at it through the lens of freeing up 20 million next year.  His cap hit if we keep him is 28 mill but if we trade or cut, we have 7 million dead.  I’m getting closer to the opinion of burn the front down and start over. 

Problem is there is no one in FA that moves the needle and can offset that loss.  It is a terrible year for FA.  Some bad players are going to get overpaid.  Only way that works is by trading him for a guy like Nick Bosa or Myles Garrett and even then we are going to have to poney up a first and then 25 million a year.   Or you extend CJ and keep adding players through the draft.   Neither are sure bets.   

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

34 minutes ago, artsy said:

But if we go "balls deep", do you really think we're gonna "bust a nut"?? 

I don't trust him to draft even a serviceable DE or DT. You are right, we don't have too many choices, but I would rather him pay top dollar to proven FA DE, versus using a 1st or 2nd rd pick on one just to be...Kaindoh, Kpass, Mike Dana, George Karloftis..etc...

I mean, now that I think about it....He also signed one...Franklin Clark.

Sooooo, damn.

If you don't trust a GM to draft a serviceable player, one of 2 things is happening. 

A. The GM isn't very good 

B. You are being overly pessimistic. 

 If I'm at the point where I doubt him and his whole scouting department enough to draft a serviceable player it's time for me to move on and pick a new sport to watch. 

I personally think he's one of the best GMs in the league and I'm aware that it's really fucking hard to build a roster that is deep and talented at every position, every year, in a cap era when your QB has already been paid. 

But KC fans are spoiled, and honestly I understand why Badger called us toxic. 

 

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

It does when you look at it through the lens of freeing up 20 million next year.  His cap hit if we keep him is 28 mill but if we trade or cut, we have 7 million dead.  I’m getting closer to the opinion of burn the front down and start over. 

 advocating a trade  is one thing but out right cut?.. your a fool

[artsy 1,137]

2 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

If you don't trust a GM to draft a serviceable player, one of 2 things is happening. 

A. The GM isn't very good 

B. You are being overly pessimistic. 

 If I'm at the point where I doubt him and his whole scouting department enough to draft a serviceabl player it's time for me to move on and pick a new sport to watch. 

I personally think he's one of the best GMs in the league and I'm aware that it's really fucking hard to build a roster that is deep and talented at every position every year in a cap era when your QB has already been paid. 

But KC fans are spoiled, and honestly I understand why Badger called us toxic. 

Veech has been very good at drafting/signing DBs, LB's, RBs and of course Creed, Smith, Thuney. Signing Gordon last year and I guess Dunlap.

But he has not come thru at all for Defensive line......And TBH, I should've been a little more clear....because I don't really think it's Veech when it comes to the Dline...

I think it's SPAGS. So let me pull back on the Veech blame for the lack of talent on the Dline.

I think Spags is responsible for the lack of talent on the Dline..But Idk....Nobody knows but Reid and co. 

What I do know...?? Is that they suck and Veech/Reid, whomever.. have not proven to be very good at it.