Front Four

[timmy_6262 77]

The basis of us winning on the defensive side is very simple....we need to get pressure with our front 4 only.  Their WR are too good to cover 1v1 when we blitz.  Clark, Karlaftis, Nnadi, Dunlap, Saunders, Danna, and last but not least Jones need to have a huge game and it starts with Jones.  It's time for Jones to "put up or shut up", or "shit or get off the pot"...whatever phrase you want to use but he has to perform at the elite level that he wants to be considered as.  No more "he's double-teamed" excuses, that has to end because its getting very old.  Coming up on his 14th playoff game and still zero sacks and 5 qb hits.  We aren't talking about one of the premier O-lines in the NFL this Sunday either.  I agree EVERYONE needs to step up their game on defense but he is supposed to be our best player, pro bowl, all pro, etc etc to get NOTHING from him on pass rush.  I'm tired of hearing the same excuses for the 7th straight year.

[DieHard 2,061]

So the problem with our pass rush is the guy that had 15 sacks. Just checking.

[artsy 1,137]

53 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

The basis of us winning on the defensive side is very simple....we need to get pressure with our front 4 only.  Their WR are too good to cover 1v1 when we blitz.  Clark, Karlaftis, Nnadi, Dunlap, Saunders, Danna, and last but not least Jones need to have a huge game and it starts with Jones.  It's time for Jones to "put up or shut up", or "shit or get off the pot"...whatever phrase you want to use but he has to perform at the elite level that he wants to be considered as.  No more "he's double-teamed" excuses, that has to end because its getting very old.  Coming up on his 14th playoff game and still zero sacks and 5 qb hits.  We aren't talking about one of the premier O-lines in the NFL this Sunday either.  I agree EVERYONE needs to step up their game on defense but he is supposed to be our best player, pro bowl, all pro, etc etc to get NOTHING from him on pass rush.  I'm tired of hearing the same excuses for the 7th straight year.

Haha..Its funny you brought this up Timmy. I was just about to post something similar.

Spags.

I have to tip my hat to Spags this year. He has managed to manufacture the "elusion" of a formidable pass rush with smoke and mirrors all season. All while playing an extremely young and experienced secondary. It's actually been a masterfull job that he and Andy has done with this defense. 

However, Sunday we play against an offense where smoke and mirrors may not be effective.  I believe you can still confuse Burrow with some pre snap coverage disguises, but without pressure in his face, he will shred you. As everyone knows, and as you stated above, somehow the front four has generate pressure. SOMEHOW.

Watching cincy against Baltimore, Burrow looked pedestrian.. They used a few pre snap disguises, and was able to get in his face. He didn't play so good...And the Ravens had a chance with a Tyler Huntley led team.

PM15 is better than Huntley even on one leg. If that front four can keep Burrow busy, we should have a good chance to beat them.

[timmy_6262 77]

21 minutes ago, DieHard said:

So the problem with our pass rush is the guy that had 15 sacks. Just checking.

must of missed the part where I said EVERYONE has to play better but it starts with Jones.  He is literally the closest player to Burrow on almost every down.

Against good teams, in the playoffs, Jones doesn't pull through.  Regular season is over its the post season. Still waiting to see something in the playoffs. 

Marty's teams dominated the regular season but we all know how the post season went.

[artsy 1,137]

19 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

must of missed the part where I said EVERYONE has to play better but it starts with Jones.  He is literally the closest player to Burrow on almost every down.

Against good teams, in the playoffs, Jones doesn't pull through.  Regular season is over its the post season. Still waiting to see something in the playoffs. 

Marty's teams dominated the regular season but we all know how the post season went.

I think playoff teams gameplan and actually "execute" the double teams better when it comes to Jones. But you're right, someone else has to step up. If burrow has time in the pocket, it will be LIGHTS OUT!

[jetlord 10,209]

You guys are being a little hard on Jones.  It not just about sacks or even passes batted down.  It's about pressure on the QB and under Cullen this season, the D line has improved.  Okay, they don't have a Bosa or Watt but it's working for the most part.  Lawrence, when pressured, is a very average QB.  Last Sunday was no exception.  Look at the number of passes he threw way off target.  Jones had a very good game and was effective.  The Bengals line is not at full strength but held off the Bills rush very well and not just because of the weather.  If Cullen and Spags figure it out, the Chiefs D-line will give the young secondary a chance.  If Jones and Clark along with Saunders do as well as last week, the Chiefs will be fine. 

[ClarksvilleChief 193]

1 hour ago, DieHard said:

So the problem with our pass rush is the guy that had 15 sacks. Just checking.

Those 15 sacks don't me jack right now...he doesn't have a sack in the playoffs yet

[oldtimer 8,686]

10 minutes ago, ClarksvilleChief said:

Those 15 sacks don't me jack right now...he doesn't have a sack in the playoffs yet

 sacks are an overrated stat IMO and IF CJ takes 2-3 people to stop him  then he has done his job and it's up to the likes of  the Greek and Machine Gun to pick up the slack

[timmy_6262 77]

4 minutes ago, ClarksvilleChief said:

Those 15 sacks don't me jack right now...he doesn't have a sack in the playoffs yet

exactly thank you

 

1 hour ago, DieHard said:

So the problem with our pass rush is the guy that had 15 sacks. Just checking.

you can't make a point about how he gets 15 sacks during the regular season to defend him when I'm saying how he doesn't get sacks in the playoffs when we need them.  Obviously Jones can get sacks but in 13 games in the playoffs he can't get 1.  If Jones only had 5-6 sacks all season the bar in the playoffs would be low but he had 15 proving he can but now its not his fault that he can't get any.

[timmy_6262 77]

1 minute ago, oldtimer said:

 sacks are an overrated stat IMO and IF CJ takes 2-3 people to stop him  then he has done his job and it's up to the likes of  the Greek and Machine Gun to pick up the slack

yeah sacks are a pointless stat.  Stopping the qb from even throwing the ball, while losing yardage, and a down is worthless. 

 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I wonder if some of you guys actually watch the guy play or just look at the score board and stat sheet.  We have one elite player on the defensive line.  One!   Every OC in the league knows who CJ95 is and I can promise you that no one on the defensive side of the ball remotely scares an OC like he does.  So what do they do?  They dedicate 2-3 guys on him every play and scheme plays away from him if at all possible.   He literally consumes two offensive lineman and pushes them into the pocket, so while he might not get the pressure and or the sack he keeps the qb from stepping up in the pocket.  Its time for all the other dlineman to put up or shut up.  Their jobs are significantly easier because of CJ and his is significantly harder because of them.  I do not think this OL of the Bengals can put together another performance like they did last week because a.  Spags won't be idiotic like Leslie was last week and b. they just aren't very good and eventually it shows.  

As for him not having a sack in all those games...that is a blemish but that literally has nothing to do with the opportunity presented this weekend.  The past is behind us and all that lies in front is this golden opportunity to cement some legacies.  I think CJ gets his first sack in the first quarter this game and is a game wrecker all game long.

[oldtimer 8,686]

26 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

yeah sacks are a pointless stat.  Stopping the qb from even throwing the ball, while losing yardage, and a down is worthless. 

 

I say overrated and you say pointless. .. it's called READING COMPHRENSION 

[timmy_6262 77]

3 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

I say overrated and you say pointless. .. it's called READING COMPHRENSION 

Sorry my bad

yeah sacks are a overrated stat.  Stopping the qb from even throwing the ball, while losing yardage, and a down is overrated.

CJ is also overrated in the playoffs

[dhitter 1,424]

5 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

Sorry my bad

yeah sacks are a overrated stat.  Stopping the qb from even throwing the ball, while losing yardage, and a down is overrated.

CJ is also overrated in the playoffs

32 pressures and eight batted passes in the playoffs. Dude has been fairly productive.

[timmy_6262 77]

14 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I wonder if some of you guys actually watch the guy play or just look at the score board and stat sheet.  We have one elite player on the defensive line.  One!   Every OC in the league knows who CJ95 is and I can promise you that no one on the defensive side of the ball remotely scares an OC like he does.  So what do they do?  They dedicate 2-3 guys on him every play and scheme plays away from him if at all possible.   He literally consumes two offensive lineman and pushes them into the pocket, so while he might not get the pressure and or the sack he keeps the qb from stepping up in the pocket.  Its time for all the other dlineman to put up or shut up.  Their jobs are significantly easier because of CJ and his is significantly harder because of them.  I do not think this OL of the Bengals can put together another performance like they did last week because a.  Spags won't be idiotic like Leslie was last week and b. they just aren't very good and eventually it shows.  

As for him not having a sack in all those games...that is a blemish but that literally has nothing to do with the opportunity presented this weekend.  The past is behind us and all that lies in front is this golden opportunity to cement some legacies.  I think CJ gets his first sack in the first quarter this game and is a game wrecker all game long.

Every play?  Every single play he has 2-3 people on him?  bullshit

I was watching the play where Pat got hurt and decided to watch the next drive in detail for Jones

8 play drive

1v1 4 time with 2 pressures and once blown out of the play

Doubled 2 times

1 screen pass

ran away from him once

Don't say EVERY PLAY when its obvious its not

[timmy_6262 77]

14 minutes ago, dhitter said:

32 pressures and eight batted passes in the playoffs. Dude has been fairly productive.

I doubt we can actually find this stat but how many pressures still turned into positive plays?  How many times has Pat been pressured to just escape and gain a first down or make a big play?  More times than I can count.  Batted passes are great but its also when he failed on a pass rush and just stuck his arm in the air and got lucky. 

I want SACKS from our Elite, Pro Bowl, All-Pro DT.  I don't think that bar is set too high for a player of his caliber.

[artsy 1,137]

I feel farily confident that KC will win Sunday. For 2 reasons:

1. Andy actually has to put together a gameplan that may actually include running the football to keep PM15 clean.

2. The Defense: They have been playing solid football the last 5wks or so. (At least the secondary has.) 

I'm still concerned about the pass rush because Burrow will destroy you if he has time to go thru his reads. 

But nonetheless, CJ is CJ. He's earned his respect. We need Clark, Dunlap and GK to do SOMETHING this game.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

Cleary for the chiefs to win Chris Jones is gonna have to dominate this decimated bengals offensive line. Now Jones is the best DT in the league so its very possible, but he has to prove it sunday.

 

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

8 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

I doubt we can actually find this stat but how many pressures still turned into positive plays?  How many times has Pat been pressured to just escape and gain a first down or make a big play?  More times than I can count.  Batted passes are great but its also when he failed on a pass rush and just stuck his arm in the air and got lucky. 

I want SACKS from our Elite, Pro Bowl, All-Pro DT.  I don't think that bar is set too high for a player of his caliber.

Are you 12?  The dude is a beast, EVERYONE knows that, and if you don't think offenses scheme around him, you must not know football.  Yes, I'd love to see a sack, but you don't think those pressures matter from other players when he takes up more than one lineman, or the scheme is designed around him?  If you don't, I suggest you go look at the interception last game.  Just saying!  

[timmy_6262 77]

5 minutes ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

Are you 12?  The dude is a beast, EVERYONE knows that, and if you don't think offenses scheme around him, you must not know football.  Yes, I'd love to see a sack, but you don't think those pressures matter from other players when he takes up more than one lineman, or the scheme is designed around him?  If you don't, I suggest you go look at the interception last game.  Just saying!  

He doesn't take up 2 lineman

I did a breakdown of one drive before and here is the drive right after that going into halftime

10 play drive

2 plays sideline

1v1 7 times pushed pocket in 3 times, 3 pressures, one inside move where OL pushed him in and rb ran behind

1 double team

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

6 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

He doesn't take up 2 lineman

I did a breakdown of one drive before and here is the drive right after that going into halftime

10 play drive

2 plays sideline

1v1 7 times pushed pocket in 3 times, 3 pressures, one inside move where OL pushed him in and rb ran behind

1 double team

He may not of on that drive, but it also doesn't mean he was not schemed against to rotate protection to him. You know that for sure????

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

9 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

He doesn't take up 2 lineman

I did a breakdown of one drive before and here is the drive right after that going into halftime

10 play drive

2 plays sideline

1v1 7 times pushed pocket in 3 times, 3 pressures, one inside move where OL pushed him in and rb ran behind

1 double team

But yeah, you are right, TEAMS should not worry about Jones.  Based on the mighty NFL coach Timmy.

[DieHard 2,061]

1 hour ago, timmy_6262 said:

exactly thank you

 

you can't make a point about how he gets 15 sacks during the regular season to defend him when I'm saying how he doesn't get sacks in the playoffs when we need them.  Obviously Jones can get sacks but in 13 games in the playoffs he can't get 1.  If Jones only had 5-6 sacks all season the bar in the playoffs would be low but he had 15 proving he can but now its not his fault that he can't get any.

I guess I didn’t realize he had 0. I still don’t think he slacks off in the playoffs. He is a guy that demands attention. Does Clark perform better in the playoffs because they are focused on Jones? I don’t know. 

[timmy_6262 77]

7 minutes ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

He may not of on that drive, but it also doesn't mean he was not schemed against to rotate protection to him. You know that for sure????

next drive

7 plays

3 sideline one was the big hit by Saunders

4 1v1 0 pressures 2 running plays 1 he got a good jump off the ball 1 was a quick out where he couldn't do anything

The point is that everyone's excuse for him not getting sacks is.....he takes up 2-3 guys EVERY play  I've looked at 20 plays and he was double teamed 3 times and never tripled teamed.

On the scheming question.  There was once where we ran a stunt where Jones started in, then went to the outside and had the DE go around behind him.  The guard passed Jones off to the tackle and Jones applied some pressure.  Not double teamed.

[timmy_6262 77]

next drive

this is getting old its the same shit

6 plays

1 running play where he was in the backfield immediately but missed the tackle

5 1v1 1 pushed pocket with pressure, 1 slight pressure, 1 quick pass no chance for pressure, 1 screen with no pressure but I'm being kind and saying he was "staying home"

0 double teams