Jawaan Taylor signing

[kccrow 529]

5 hours ago, jetlord said:

Agree.  I don't see Broderick Jones as that much more than Harrison or Wright, especially since the Taylor signing.  If the top three OT come off the board in the top twenty, which is likely, then I'd not be disappointed if the Chiefs moved up to insure Harrison or Wright but we're talking moving a few slots, not 15 which would just be too expensive.  There may be other prospects who the Chiefs have slotted to play RT.  Veach seems to find good fits that we don't discuss here. 

I do. I see him as alot more at LT than Harrison. Wright is RT only for me.

Wright is a nice consolation if he drops to just plug him in at RT. 

I project Jones as the next dominant LT in this league. I think he's going to be really, really good. I personally like him more than Paris Johnson. Those guys don't grow on trees. At some point you either buck up and go get one or you get stuck playing middling guys at the position and doing things like hoping a career RT can play LT. Not the most ideal situation. 

[SEMO 6,811]

10 hours ago, kccrow said:

I do. I see him as alot more at LT than Harrison. Wright is RT only for me.

Wright is a nice consolation if he drops to just plug him in at RT. 

I project Jones as the next dominant LT in this league. I think he's going to be really, really good. I personally like him more than Paris Johnson. Those guys don't grow on trees. At some point you either buck up and go get one or you get stuck playing middling guys at the position and doing things like hoping a career RT can play LT. Not the most ideal situation. 

Damn right!  Bro Jones is the best LT in this draft.

[jetlord 10,207]

7 hours ago, SEMO said:

Damn right!  Bro Jones is the best LT in this draft.

Do the scouts and GMs agree?  I know the talking heads have him at #3, but they aren't the ones picking.  Either way, he going too early for the Chiefs to move up.  It would take next year's #1 to trade up to fifteen or so and as many have stated, "You don't trade #1 picks except for a QB.  Clark and Brown are examples although the Brown deal wasn't strictly just a #1. 

[arrowhead 1,070]

With Tunsil signing an extension, move up for a LT.

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,554]

With visions of Pat limping around in the playoffs and SB, I say you pay the price to protect the franchise. Keeping the #15 uniform clean has to overweigh all other concerns. 

I would like to see Taylor at RT and a solid stud (Tunsil, Johnson, Jones, whoever) at LT. Whatever the price.

[arrowhead 1,070]

4 minutes ago, Burpo The Mad Clown said:

With visions of Pat limping around in the playoffs and SB, I say you pay the price to protect the franchise. Keeping the #15 uniform clean has to overweigh all other concerns. 

I would like to see Taylor at RT and a solid stud (Tunsil, Johnson, Jones, whoever) at LT. Whatever the price.

Yep.

The Texans just made Tunsil the highest paid LT in the NFL to protect a guy not even on the roster.

Worrying about the cost to protect the Franchise is lunacy.

[oldtimer 8,684]

12 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Yep.

The Texans just made Tunsil the highest paid LT in the NFL to protect a guy not even on the roster.

Worrying about the cost to protect the Franchise is lunacy.

yup pretty much and I never bought into the idea the Chiefs where going to trade for Tunsil and make him  #1 LT $$$. It's not the Veach way but sure will be curious to see how this LT mess is solved. I'm not buying  Taylor at LT unless something on down the line goes FUBAR.

[mex 65,581]

11 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Yep.

The Texans just made Tunsil the highest paid LT in the NFL to protect a guy not even on the roster.

Worrying about the cost to protect the Franchise is lunacy.

This is the year to do it. But we'll need to move up to the first half of round 1. The big question is, what will be the cost. At this point, I'd be willing to trade this year's #1 and next year's #1. Maybe throw in CEH?  This is where Veach earns his money. 

There are 4 potential starting LTs and with this year's focus on QBs and DEs, there one will be available in the middle of rd 1, maybe even a bit later. 

Skoronski

Johnson

Jones

Harrison

Knowing the Chiefs front office loves them some Sooners, I think Harrison could be their target. He's likely the most underrated OT in the class, but he's ready to start at this level, as are any of the above.

 

[arrowhead 1,070]

37 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

yup pretty much and I never bought into the idea the Chiefs where going to trade for Tunsil and make him  #1 LT $$$. It's not the Veach way but sure will be curious to see how this LT mess is solved. I'm not buying  Taylor at LT unless something on down the line goes FUBAR.

1st round LT for 5 years on a rookie contract. Humphrey and Smith will need extensions in a year or two. You have to make the Oline the priority for as long as Patrick is the QB1.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, mex said:

This is the year to do it. But we'll need to move up to the first half of round 1. The big question is, what will be the cost. At this point, I'd be willing to trade this year's #1 and next year's #1. Maybe throw in CEH?  This is where Veach earns his money. 

There are 4 potential starting LTs and with this year's focus on QBs and DEs, there one will be available in the middle of rd 1, maybe even a bit later. 

Skoronski

Johnson

Jones

Harrison

Knowing the Chiefs front office loves them some Sooners, I think Harrison could be their target. He's likely the most underrated OT in the class, but he's ready to start at this level, as are any of the above.

 

Yeah Harrison is a stud pass blocker. You don't think he might be available in the early 20's?

[mex 65,581]

4 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah Harrison is a stud pass blocker. You don't think he might be available in the early 20's?

Maybe... I think he’s underrated which works in our favor.  Most mocks I’ve seen only have 3 OTs taken in the first... but all it takes is some early team going with BPA instead of filling their obvious immediate needs to wreck the order. Then everything changes. My guess is veach will trade up... but will have several offers on the table with several teams, in case the guys they want drop further than expected. Gonna be a hoot that’s for sure.

[kccrow 529]

2 hours ago, mex said:

This is the year to do it. But we'll need to move up to the first half of round 1. The big question is, what will be the cost. At this point, I'd be willing to trade this year's #1 and next year's #1. Maybe throw in CEH?  This is where Veach earns his money. 

There are 4 potential starting LTs and with this year's focus on QBs and DEs, there one will be available in the middle of rd 1, maybe even a bit later. 

Skoronski

Johnson

Jones

Harrison

Knowing the Chiefs front office loves them some Sooners, I think Harrison could be their target. He's likely the most underrated OT in the class, but he's ready to start at this level, as are any of the above.

 

I'm okay with Harrison but there's a big dropoff from Johnson and Jones to him. I think Harrison could get overdrafted, honestly. He's got some warts. My opinion is that Zeirleins write-up on him is spot on. Basically, it reads as will struggle with pure speed up the arc due to clunky diagonal slides, will get rocked by good power, and poor run blocker. He's not receiving many 1st round grades from some of the guys not on ESPN and I don't even know if they are because I don't watch. Dane Brugler (#63) and Drew Boylhart (#46) don't have him in the top 32. I'd probably take him at 32 and hope my OL coaches could iron out the deficiencies in his slide mechanics and his hand punch timing while also trusting the strength guys to improve his anchor against power.

As for Skoronski, that arm length (32-1/4") has me thinking it's going to be difficult for him to stay out at OT in the NFL. I look at 33" as the absolute minimum. It's almost non-existent that guys play tackle in the NFL with arms that don't meet that threshold. I'm not even sure I can think of a single example of it. Guys like Slater and Peters and so forth have all had 33" arms. It's a big maybe there. I think he falls. A good fit is him moving back inside to center. Good value for a team like Seattle around #20.

 

[jetlord 10,207]

Skoronski is an OG who will be drafted as an OT.  Pass on him.  Johnson will go early and be out of reach.  Jones seems to be the target for the CC experts but I think his price may be just too high.  So Harrison could be who the Chiefs trade up for if they need to.  The big question is whether they plan on Taylor starting at LT.  If that's realistic, then taking Wright wouldn't be too bad.  He could be a fixture at RT for years and let Niang be the swing guy.  I appreciate Crow's analysis, but think Harrison could develop into a solid LT.  If the Chiefs really don't believe in Taylor at LT, then the pressure to get an instant starter increases, but I'm betting on Harrison or Wright in the first round even if they have to move up a bit to get them.  In the mocks I've played with, if they don't get a tackle in the first round, it will be hard to get one at all.  Big drop off before pick #63.  

[Holmes4six! 968]

Everyone may think it’s out to lunch but what if thuny is willing to slide over to LT and give him an increase.  Keep Taylor at RT. 
only one game I saw with thuny there and he did well. 
just throwing it out there. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

44 minutes ago, Holmes4six! said:

Everyone may think it’s out to lunch but what if thuny is willing to slide over to LT and give him an increase.  Keep Taylor at RT. 
only one game I saw with thuny there and he did well. 
just throwing it out there. 

Facepalm….yikes. 

[mex 65,581]

3 hours ago, kccrow said:

My opinion is that Zeirleins write-up on him is spot on. Basically, it reads as will struggle with pure speed up the arc due to clunky diagonal slides, will get rocked by good power, and poor run blocker.

Here's what Zeirlein said about Creed:

"Very average athleticism, below average length, does not generate movement in the run game and will be more of a steady player than a star."

I trust Veach & Co.

KC has had very good luck with lineman from OU on both sides of the ball. Creed was undervalued, and IMO so is Harrison. Any of those four would be good... hell even Dawand Jones could contribute... but he's a 2nd round guy so KC likely won't look at him.

This is a good year for OTs, and I bet Andy/Patrick/Veach know who they want and can make it happen. 

[mex 65,581]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

In the mocks I've played with, if they don't get a tackle in the first round, it will be hard to get one at all.  Big drop off before pick #63.  

Wouldn't surprise me if all the stud OTs are gone by 40. 

[kccrow 529]

You rarely get a good LT outside of the top 20 and when you do it's usually a developmental 3rd/4th rounder that you can beef up behind an incumbent.

Good RTs are a bit different animals but they generally go through the top 3 rounds. 

Not sure how good this will paste but these are the stats when I ran them prior to the 2022 draft on starting NFL tackles (the #s under LT/RT are quantity and under Ave is the average selection #):

RND	LT	AVE	%	RT	AVE	%
1	18	13	56%	11	16	34%
2	3	44	9%	5	51	16%
3	4	81	13%	7	78	22%
4	2	119	6%	1	140	3%
5	1	168	3%	1	158	3%
6	0	0	0%	0	0	0%
7	3	241	9%	1	248	3%
CFA	1	0	3%	6	0	19%

The moral of the story is that it's probably a poor assumption that you'll get a "stud" LT but you might get a RT.

[kccrow 529]

BTW here are the pick #s for the LT that went in Round 1

1	26
1	6
1	11
1	10
1	13
1	11
1	20
1	15
1	13
1	9
1	4
1	16
1	23
1	6
1	6
1	24
1	4
1	9

[mex 65,581]

24 minutes ago, kccrow said:

You rarely get a good LT outside of the top 20 and when you do it's usually a developmental 3rd/4th rounder that you can beef up behind an incumbent.

Good RTs are a bit different animals but they generally go through the top 3 rounds. 

Not sure how good this will paste but these are the stats when I ran them prior to the 2022 draft on starting NFL tackles (the #s under LT/RT are quantity and under Ave is the average selection #):

 

RND	LT	AVE	%	RT	AVE	%
1	18	13	56%	11	16	34%
2	3	44	9%	5	51	16%
3	4	81	13%	7	78	22%
4	2	119	6%	1	140	3%
5	1	168	3%	1	158	3%
6	0	0	0%	0	0	0%
7	3	241	9%	1	248	3%
CFA	1	0	3%	6	0	19%

The moral of the story is that it's probably a poor assumption that you'll get a "stud" LT but you might get a RT.

That's good info... but every year is different... different # of quality LTs, different # of teams with LT as their #1 need, etc.

I still think we can pick up a good one by trading up. The question is how much draft capital are they willing to spend.

[kccrow 529]

25 minutes ago, mex said:

That's good info... but every year is different... different # of quality LTs, different # of teams with LT as their #1 need, etc.

I still think we can pick up a good one by trading up. The question is how much draft capital are they willing to spend.

Sure, every year is different. This year there are two high-quality LTs and both Johnson and Jones are going in the top 15, absolutely no question about that.

Then there's a severe drop to Harrison and then an even further drop to guys like Duncan and Freeland.

The question becomes do you want Harrison at LT or would you like Wright at RT a bit better? Those are probably your plays if you're adamant that you want a first-round tackle. I think you'd have to move up some for Wright, hell that might be a lot of "some." He's a really good RT prospect, and plenty of those have gone top 20 as well.

My opinion has become that if you don't have the cajones to go up and get Jones then fuck it at all in round 1. Let Taylor and Niang play tackle and then look for a quality swing tackle later, maybe Wanya Morris from Oklahoma with that middle 4th we have, and grab another vet like a Josh Wells to fill in the roster. Maybe take a developmental LT in the 7th that would otherwise be a UDFA like Bostick from KU or Haggard from Indiana.

Instead, concentrate your efforts on the defensive front. 

[Palangi 788]

I think Taylor is LT and Niang and Kinnard will battle for RT. Prince is a guy that can be a swing tackle. 
 

I’d like to see Wanya Morris or Carter Warren drafted to be a developmental guy too. 
 

 

[mex 65,581]

1 hour ago, kccrow said:

Sure, every year is different. This year there are two high-quality LTs and both Johnson and Jones are going in the top 15, absolutely no question about that.

Then there's a severe drop to Harrison and then an even further drop to guys like Duncan and Freeland.

The question becomes do you want Harrison at LT or would you like Wright at RT a bit better? Those are probably your plays if you're adamant that you want a first-round tackle. I think you'd have to move up some for Wright, hell that might be a lot of "some." He's a really good RT prospect, and plenty of those have gone top 20 as well.

My opinion has become that if you don't have the cajones to go up and get Jones then fuck it at all in round 1. Let Taylor and Niang play tackle and then look for a quality swing tackle later, maybe Wanya Morris from Oklahoma with that middle 4th we have, and grab another vet like a Josh Wells to fill in the roster. Maybe take a developmental LT in the 7th that would otherwise be a UDFA like Bostick from KU or Haggard from Indiana.

Instead, concentrate your efforts on the defensive front. 

Pretty sure they have a plan. Nobody left in FA, so they either draft a LTOTF or they make do with what they have. I think they move up... or at least try to.

[Palangi 788]

Or they signed Taylor to be the LT like reported. And then have Niang and Kinnard battle for the RT spot like they were drafted to do?

[kkuenn 3,597]

In this article, this is said to be a head scratcher signing:

 

Seth Walder, sports analytics writer: OT Jawaan Taylor to the Kansas City Chiefs. Taylor is a fine pass-protector, but he's not elite. Jaguars quarterback Trevor Lawrence's quick release made Taylor look better than he is last season. And Taylor is a weakness in the run game. If he plays left tackle, he's a downgrade from Orlando Brown Jr., but he's getting more money per year than Brown signed for in Cincinnati.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35872038/nfl-free-agency-2023-best-worst-deals-signings-moves-most-improved-teams

 

I hope they know how they will fit him at LT or get a LT and keep him at RT. He is great at pass pro, which is what keeps Mahomes upright and healthy. I just hope we dont have to provide him with chipping help and such as we seemed to have to do with Orlando.

 

Then in said article it states a great signing:

Moody: OT Jawaan Taylor to the Kansas City Chiefs. The soon-to-be 25-year-old is entering his prime and expected to play left tackle for Kansas City. The Chiefs will probably address the right side of their offensive line at next month's draft, but providing the top quarterback in the game blindside protection is never a bad idea. Taylor was one of the best tackles available on the market.