Crow's Mock 4.2.23

[xen 1,010,217]

4 minutes ago, kccrow said:

I mean, you can argue it if you want but there is one power conference for football, the SEC.  Plus some wannabes.

Fify

[kccrow 529]

3 minutes ago, xen said:

Fify

No. If Alabama didn't pay so well they'd be neck and neck. 

[kccrow 529]

13 hours ago, xen said:

Boo-Shell played with Rice for a few years so we certainly should have the inside scoop on him.  Had a top 30 visit as well.  Draft can't get here fast enough.  

Crow, you going to the draft?

Most likely not. KC is a 12-ish hr drive for me and the finances aren't exactly up to snuff to make the trip. 

[jetlord 10,207]

On 4/3/2023 at 4:16 PM, SEMO said:

Yeah, but Ohio State sucks.

They do okay as long as they stay in their mid-major conference.  Playing higher level teams seems to baffle them. 

[mex 65,577]

1 minute ago, jetlord said:

They do okay as long as they stay in their mid-major conference.  Playing higher level teams seems to baffle them. 

[jetlord 10,207]

Just now, mex said:

Even a blind hog finds a truffle once in a while.  🙂

[mex 65,577]

1 minute ago, jetlord said:

Even a blind hog finds a truffle once in a while.  🙂

Some hogs never find that truffle. 

[kccrow 529]

I was thinking about Benton today and it just boils down to this for me... There's no two players I want more than Jahmyr Gibbs and Keeanu Benton but I'd settle for an either/or. Not too many fans I've received feedback from like the Idea of Jahmyr Gibbs. I think they are absolutely foolish but that's here nor there. Those are my two dudes. I think they are legit home-run players. 

I said this on Gibbs over at CP...

Quote

 

People bag on picking Gibbs because he's a RB. I get that part. They'd quickly forget about it if the guy puts up numbers like Alvin Kamara as a rookie and is a 1500 scrimmage-yard player with more receiving production than rushing, allowing Pacheco to still be a significant contributor as well. To be a 1200 scrimmage-yard player, he just needs a 50% uptick over McKinnon. With his athleticism and ability to stay healthy in his career, I don't see why that's impossible. 440/770 run/rec is entirely possible and that's a pretty significant amount of production you probably wouldn't get from any other rookie skill player.

His upside/potential is that you could land yourself 2013 Jamaal Charles or 2019 Christian McCaffrey or a career of Marshall Faulk. And that's the reason I took the guy (in the mock there) and would take the guy if he were sitting there at 31 and I was in Veach's shoes. I have my doubts he's actually still on the board at that point, but it would be impossible to pass on the potential for that type of weapon. He has the potential to not only be a 1k RB but a 1k receiving option. Kelce isn't getting any younger and this is the type of guy that can be an additional short-area valve for Mahomes to dump to and let make plays.

 

 This is from a guy that despises taking 1st round RBs. I just think Gibbs is a different type of player, a guy that can be a fundamental asset in the passing game. He doesn't need to be a workhorse. Pacheco is the workhorse. This league is about creating matchups. You can shift Gibbs into a slot/flanker role and still have Pacheco on the field. Alabama did it. Reid would do it. I just think its a powerful move. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

19 hours ago, kccrow said:

I was thinking about Benton today and it just boils down to this for me... There's no two players I want more than Jahmyr Gibbs and Keeanu Benton but I'd settle for an either/or. Not too many fans I've received feedback from like the Idea of Jahmyr Gibbs. I think they are absolutely foolish but that's here nor there. Those are my two dudes. I think they are legit home-run players. 

I said this on Gibbs over at CP...

 This is from a guy that despises taking 1st round RBs. I just think Gibbs is a different type of player, a guy that can be a fundamental asset in the passing game. He doesn't need to be a workhorse. Pacheco is the workhorse. This league is about creating matchups. You can shift Gibbs into a slot/flanker role and still have Pacheco on the field. Alabama did it. Reid would do it. I just think its a powerful move. 

Gibbs is an exceptional talent for sure but we found a more than servicable RB in the 7th so using a first round on another one wouldn't be maximizing positional value and the main reason I'm not for it is is Mahomes doesn't like to check it down enough for that aspect of his game to elevate his positional value enough.   For me its not a knock on Gibbs at all.  I'd rather have him than Bijan but we have other more pressing needs.

 

[kccrow 529]

13 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Gibbs is an exceptional talent for sure but we found a more than servicable RB in the 7th so using a first round on another one wouldn't be maximizing positional value and the main reason I'm not for it is is Mahomes doesn't like to check it down enough for that aspect of his game to elevate his positional value enough.   For me its not a knock on Gibbs at all.  I'd rather have him than Bijan but we have other more pressing needs.

 

1. This is the same lame excuse I listen to on repeat. We got a 7th-round RB, blah, blah, blah. Great. It's awesome. It's also not exceedingly common. Most good RBs come between the 2nd and 5th rounds. Pacheco is a shitty 3rd-down and receiving back. If you think the only thing we can use a RB for is to smash-hulk some yards here and there then move on to #2.

2. Mahomes threw to McKinnon for 56 receptions, 500 yards and 9 TDs last year. Fourth on the team in yards, third in receptions, and second to only Kelce in TDs. A 30-year-old player with enough injuries in his career that he probably runs mid 4.5's now and his wiggle is .... well... lacking. Gibbs runs a legit 4.36. Any excuse that Mahomes wouldn't use him is based on, well, absolutely nothing. In fact, it is terribly wrong.

3. There are very few RBs in any draft that are already excellent receivers and blockers. Gibbs is. You probably are not getting that elsewhere in this draft. An okay receiving back? Sure, there are a couple of late options. Hull, Mitchell, and Valladay are pretty much it. None block very well. The only one anywhere near Gibbs athletic profile is Mitchell and he's 2 inches and 20 pounds lighter than Gibbs and McKinnon. Gibbs ran WR routes often enough as well. He has the potential to be a WR convert. If you want difference-makers with the athletic profile to truly be them, then Gibbs is #1 on the list. Gibbs is a threat to house it on any play from anywhere on the field. That's a rare ability. He's phenomenal in space. Hell, he's phenomenal with little space. 

4. You have a core of young WRs and an aging TE. If you think that Mahomes won't need someone to step up and be a quality check-down now more than ever, I think you're going to be mistaken. 

[mex 65,577]

4 hours ago, kccrow said:

1. This is the same lame excuse I listen to on repeat. We got a 7th-round RB, blah, blah, blah. Great. It's awesome. It's also not exceedingly common. Most good RBs come between the 2nd and 5th rounds. Pacheco is a shitty 3rd-down and receiving back. If you think the only thing we can use a RB for is to smash-hulk some yards here and there then move on to #2.

2. Mahomes threw to McKinnon for 56 receptions, 500 yards and 9 TDs last year. Fourth on the team in yards, third in receptions, and second to only Kelce in TDs. A 30-year-old player with enough injuries in his career that he probably runs mid 4.5's now and his wiggle is .... well... lacking. Gibbs runs a legit 4.36. Any excuse that Mahomes wouldn't use him is based on, well, absolutely nothing. In fact, it is terribly wrong.

3. There are very few RBs in any draft that are already excellent receivers and blockers. Gibbs is. You probably are not getting that elsewhere in this draft. An okay receiving back? Sure, there are a couple of late options. Hull, Mitchell, and Valladay are pretty much it. None block very well. The only one anywhere near Gibbs athletic profile is Mitchell and he's 2 inches and 20 pounds lighter than Gibbs and McKinnon. Gibbs ran WR routes often enough as well. He has the potential to be a WR convert. If you want difference-makers with the athletic profile to truly be them, then Gibbs is #1 on the list. Gibbs is a threat to house it on any play from anywhere on the field. That's a rare ability. He's phenomenal in space. Hell, he's phenomenal with little space. 

4. You have a core of young WRs and an aging TE. If you think that Mahomes won't need someone to step up and be a quality check-down now more than ever, I think you're going to be mistaken. 

 

[xen 1,010,217]

Meh get mahomes some more receivers and it will be fine.  Rather spend on that than a RB.  We heard the same shit with CEH... he ran WR routes in college too.  There's some good day 2 and 3 receiving backs as well, no need to dig for one.

[SEMO 6,811]

42 minutes ago, xen said:

Meh get mahomes some more receivers and it will be fine.  Rather spend on that than a RB.  We heard the same shit with CEH... he ran WR routes in college too.  There's some good day 2 and 3 receiving backs as well, no need to dig for one.

I value the running game more than you, but that being said, I still wouldn’t draft a running back on day one or two.  A back like Spears or even Vaughn would be fine on day three and provide 3rd down alternatives to IP.

OT, ER and WR on day one and two. 

[xen 1,010,217]

29 minutes ago, SEMO said:

I value the running game more than you, but that being said, I still wouldn’t draft a running back on day one or two.  A back like Spears or even Vaughn would be fine on day three and provide 3rd down alternatives to IP.

OT, ER and WR on day one and two. 

I'd be fine with a TE or hell other positions as well.  

I mean look if we spend on a RB,  as long as he affects the passing game in a meaningful way, I would be fine.  I just think a high pick can be better spent and i think Gibbs is too good to drop far enough where we'd be comfortable.  But hell I can't seem to stop mocking Achane to us so what do I know.

[SEMO 6,811]

7 hours ago, xen said:

I'd be fine with a TE or hell other positions as well.  

I mean look if we spend on a RB,  as long as he affects the passing game in a meaningful way, I would be fine.  I just think a high pick can be better spent and i think Gibbs is too good to drop far enough where we'd be comfortable.  But hell I can't seem to stop mocking Achane to us so what do I know.

I can't see them taking a TE high, with what they have signed right now.  But, who knows.

[xen 1,010,217]

3 hours ago, SEMO said:

I can't see them taking a TE high, with what they have signed right now.  But, who knows.

Yeah I don't know about that.  Trav is 34.  Fortson is hurt a lot.  And Gray is good but not dominant prospect who's a bit undersized.  Not saying they will but if a guy they love falls... 

I think veach is just looking at BPA in the first regardless of us fans wanting DE, OT, WR.

[kkuenn 3,597]

18 minutes ago, xen said:

Yeah I don't know about that.  Trav is 34.  Fortson is hurt a lot.  And Gray is good but not dominant prospect who's a bit undersized.  Not saying they will but if a guy they love falls... 

I think veach is just looking at BPA in the first regardless of us fans wanting DE, OT, WR.

BPA and possibly a trade up if a guy falls within range.

[robgar 1,046]

I'm thinking we trade up.. the draft is in kc.. and i think we want to make a splash of some kind.

[mex 65,577]

6 hours ago, xen said:

I think veach is just looking at BPA in the first regardless of us fans wanting DE, OT, WR.

Wouldn't be the first time BPA overrode position of need. 

BTW it's OT, DE, WR.

[mex 65,577]

6 hours ago, kkuenn said:

BPA and possibly a trade up if a guy falls within range.

If they trade up, I doubt it will be for a TE. 

My guess is if they tried to make a big splash, it would be WR. 

I still believe they can trade up just enough to land a starting LTOTF and still pick up a great Edge guy and WR in the later rounds. I'd also love to see a day 2 safety that would come in and kill it. A guy can dream.

[kkuenn 3,597]

22 minutes ago, mex said:

If they trade up, I doubt it will be for a TE. 

My guess is if they tried to make a big splash, it would be WR. 

I still believe they can trade up just enough to land a starting LTOTF and still pick up a great Edge guy and WR in the later rounds. I'd also love to see a day 2 safety that would come in and kill it. A guy can dream.

Don't think they would for a TE but if a guy falls for OT, WR, DT or DE I can see us moving up 10 spots or so.

[mex 65,577]

3 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Don't think they would for a TE but if a guy falls for OT, WR, DT or DE I can see us moving up 10 spots or so.

Yep and I'd love to see it.

[jetlord 10,207]

3 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Don't think they would for a TE but if a guy falls for OT, WR, DT or DE I can see us moving up 10 spots or so.

What draft capital would the Chiefs have to give up to move up to #21?  I know what the draft trade charts show, but would you do it?  For who? 

[kkuenn 3,597]

22 hours ago, jetlord said:

What draft capital would the Chiefs have to give up to move up to #21?  I know what the draft trade charts show, but would you do it?  For who? 

Well if a mid 1st rounder fell that was there at 21 and an DE or DT I would. I think we are set at RT for now so they may take a swing tackle later on. Wr in round 2 I believe. Who could be a mid rounder DE or DT to fall to 21? Van Ness. He is a bit raw so he may slip a bit even with the hype. Murphy from Clemson or Nolan Smith from Georgia may be there around 20 ish.

 

Kancey at DT or we can maybe  get Mazi, either will be closer to where we are now to mid 20s. I don't think they are there at 31 as it looks now.

[jetlord 10,207]

3 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Well if a mid 1st rounder fell that was there at 21 and an DE ir DT I would. I think we are set at RT for now so they may take a swing tackle later on. Wr in round 2 I believe. Who could be a mid rounder DE or DT to fall to 21? Van Ness. He is a bit raw so he may slip a bit even with the hype. Murphy from Clemson or Nolan Smith from Georgia may be there around 20 ish.

 

Kancey at DT or we can maybe  get Mazi, either will be closer to where we are now to mid 20s. I don't think they are there at 31 as it looks now.

You misunderstood my question.  I'm asking what draft choices you think the Chiefs would have to give up to move up to #21.