Hopkins released

[dhitter 1,424]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

A healthy Hopkins could do more than a healthy Watkins.  Hopkins could make more contested catches and has a bigger catch radius.  It's a matter of how much age has taken out of him.  

He only played in 9 games last year. Project his stats over the course of a full season and he has 120 catches for 1,354 yards and around 7 TDs.

I'd take 2/3 of that out of him and be happy.

[mex 65,581]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

A healthy Hopkins could do more than a healthy Watkins.  Hopkins could make more contested catches and has a bigger catch radius.  It's a matter of how much age has taken out of him.  

That’s kinda why I would put him in the Watkins category… but that ain’t bad because Sammy helped us win our first SB in quite a while. If age hasn’t taken as bad of a toll, so much the better. 

[kkuenn 3,599]

28 minutes ago, dhitter said:

He only played in 9 games last year. Project his stats over the course of a full season and he has 120 catches for 1,354 yards and around 7 TDs.

I'd take 2/3 of that out of him and be happy.

Yes but the price has to be right. You don't want to cripple the cap for 80 catches, 860 yards and 5 tds either. 

[jetlord 10,209]

5 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Yes but the price has to be right. You don't want to cripple the cap for 80 catches, 860 yards and 5 tds either. 

And those 860 yds. would lower the production of Moore, Rice, MVS, and Toney by about that much.  Hopkins only makes sense if he can make plays that the others on the roster can't.   

[mex 65,581]

9 hours ago, jetlord said:

And those 860 yds. would lower the production of Moore, Rice, MVS, and Toney by about that much.  Hopkins only makes sense if he can make plays that the others on the roster can't.   

He would command a little more respect from defenses which will help whomever is in the game with him... Toney, MVS and Kelce. But it's got to be affordable. Since teams aren't pounding on his front door (yet) he might just realize the pay ain't going to be top tier so might as well go with a team with a chance to pick up a ring or two.

[dhitter 1,424]

15 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Yes but the price has to be right. You don't want to cripple the cap for 80 catches, 860 yards and 5 tds either. 

I said I'd take the production. Never said "Go get DHop at any cost." Chiefs proved last year they don't need an elite WR1 to win. But someone has to step up and fill that Juju role of a solid compliment to Kelce. Who is gonna do it?

[xen 1,010,220]

20 minutes ago, mex said:

He would command a little more respect from defenses which will help whomever is in the game with him... Toney, MVS and Kelce. But it's got to be affordable. Since teams aren't pounding on his front door (yet) he might just realize the pay ain't going to be top tier so might as well go with a team with a chance to pick up a ring or two.

I have a feeling both the Pats and the Tits have met his asking price based on reports but it appears he wants to get paid from a winner.  How much of a discount if any he will give for a hood shot at a ring is all speculation.  If we extend CJ I don't see 10-15 for 1 year as out of bounds or crippling.  We'll see what he really wants by what he does I suppose.   

[kkuenn 3,599]

31 minutes ago, dhitter said:

I said I'd take the production. Never said "Go get DHop at any cost." Chiefs proved last year they don't need an elite WR1 to win. But someone has to step up and fill that Juju role of a solid compliment to Kelce. Who is gonna do it?

Never said you stated at any cost. I think drop would fill the role, I just don't want to overpay say 12 to 15 million price. JJ did not cost that much and we should get D Hop for the same range imo. He is getting paid from Arizona but to take a little less would get him a chance for a ring. He stated as much,  so hopefully he does it.

[dhitter 1,424]

58 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Never said you stated at any cost. I think drop would fill the role, I just don't want to overpay say 12 to 15 million price. JJ did not cost that much and we should get D Hop for the same range imo. He is getting paid from Arizona but to take a little less would get him a chance for a ring. He stated as much,  so hopefully he does it.

I have heard he's looking for a contract similar to what OBJ got. If so.....BIG PASS!

Hopkins wants to play for a true contender which NE and Tennessee are not. But he isn't going to sign for peanuts. He wants a deal worthy of respect for who he has been in the league. So what is that number? If I had to guess I'd say Chiefs will not get DHop.

[xen 1,010,220]

8 minutes ago, dhitter said:

I have heard he's looking for a contract similar to what OBJ got. If so.....BIG PASS!

Hopkins wants to play for a true contender which NE and Tennessee are not. But he isn't going to sign for peanuts. He wants a deal worthy of respect for who he has been in the league. So what is that number? If I had to guess I'd say Chiefs will not get DHop.

That's kind of where I'm at.  Also the reports were that KCs offer was very incentive heavy.  Who knows.  We'd need a CJ deal before it's even a problem.

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, xen said:

I have a feeling both the Pats and the Tits have met his asking price based on reports but it appears he wants to get paid from a winner.  How much of a discount if any he will give for a hood shot at a ring is all speculation.  If we extend CJ I don't see 10-15 for 1 year as out of bounds or crippling.  We'll see what he really wants by what he does I suppose.   

Not sure how those numbers work.  Jones signing will give the Chiefs relief, but the team will have to hold some of that back to cover unexpected pick ups for injuries, etc.  Jones will still get paid so can the Chiefs lower his hit from $28+ million to $10 million for this season?  That's about what I think it would take to make a serious bid for Hopkins considering the need to keep about $8 million in reserve.  

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Not sure how those numbers work.  Jones signing will give the Chiefs relief, but the team will have to hold some of that back to cover unexpected pick ups for injuries, etc.  Jones will still get paid so can the Chiefs lower his hit from $28+ million to $10 million for this season?  That's about what I think it would take to make a serious bid for Hopkins considering the need to keep about $8 million in reserve.  

Chiefs don't usually go into season with 8m in reserve unless they plan to carryover onto next year's cap.  Savings on CJ entirely depend on amounts and structure of course, but based on previous big contracts, they are likely pushing for very minimal salary first year so the hit would be whatever that is plus prorated and non-prorated bonuses

[xen 1,010,220]

BTW yes that's possible to get to 10m hit or even lower.  Just depends.  For instance they could use the roster bonus mechanics instead of a huge signing bonus.  Structure matters more than anything.

[jetlord 10,209]

19 minutes ago, xen said:

Chiefs don't usually go into season with 8m in reserve unless they plan to carryover onto next year's cap.  Savings on CJ entirely depend on amounts and structure of course, but based on previous big contracts, they are likely pushing for very minimal salary first year so the hit would be whatever that is plus prorated and non-prorated bonuses

Well, $8 million is probably high, but they'll keep back some reserve for mid season signings like they did with Suggs a few years back.  Would Hopkins come here for $10-12 million after what the Ravens paid out? 

[xen 1,010,220]

27 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Well, $8 million is probably high, but they'll keep back some reserve for mid season signings like they did with Suggs a few years back.  Would Hopkins come here for $10-12 million after what the Ravens paid out? 

3-5 is usually what we have.

Who knows.  I do know he ain't winning a ring with the Pats or Tits.  He knows that too if he's honest with himself.

[mex 65,581]

12 hours ago, xen said:

That's kind of where I'm at.  Also the reports were that KCs offer was very incentive heavy.  Who knows.  We'd need a CJ deal before it's even a problem.

I love this. Put up or shut up. We’re the Chiefs… not the raiders. 

[xen 1,010,220]

 

[West 6,713]

There is a "sniff" of possible....

DHop following C Jones makes sense.

Jones (and Veach) waited for the Jets to close on their DT

Veach can now take care of Jones AND KC can get D Hop.

Frankly, If he comes to KC-DHop will make a difference for us vs Buffalo....

w

[arrowhead 1,070]

2 hours ago, West said:

There is a "sniff" of possible....

DHop following C Jones makes sense.

Jones (and Veach) waited for the Jets to close on their DT

Veach can now take care of Jones AND KC can get D Hop.

Frankly, If he comes to KC-DHop will make a difference for us vs Buffalo....

w

I'll bet Jetlord's retirement check DHop signs.

The entre passing game benefits. If Toney can stay healthy, bejeebus. Moore, Rice, James, MVS (cap casualty) Watson. Maybe Ross or Ross.

5.000+   50+ for MVPat.

Nick Wright is calling for a 3peat. Works for me.

[West 6,713]

I bet Jet's check the other day on a horse....

Hopefully, the account numbers I provided are "off slightly"...

Once again, great minds think alike.

 

 

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, arrowhead said:

I'll bet Jetlord's retirement check DHop signs.

The entre passing game benefits. If Toney can stay healthy, bejeebus. Moore, Rice, James, MVS (cap casualty) Watson. Maybe Ross or Ross.

5.000+   50+ for MVPat.

Nick Wright is calling for a 3peat. Works for me.

I think they keep MVS.  While him and pat were not on the same page a lot of the year on deep shots, he has the speed to stretch a D vertically and they have to respect that.  With a full year in the program to work on it I think he stays.  

[xen 1,010,220]

BTW if we sign DHop and James works out Justin Watson might be your cap casualty.  It's only a 150k dead cap hit this year and next if they cut him.

About 150k dead cap this year only if Richie gets cut.

[arrowhead 1,070]

8 minutes ago, xen said:

BTW if we sign DHop and James works out Justin Watson might be your cap casualty.  It's only a 150k dead cap hit this year and next if they cut him.

About 150k dead cap this year only if Richie gets cut.

Richie replaces MVS production on the cheap. Moore and Rice (first year will be difficult, as we know) will contribute. 

Toney is a 4.3 guy. Watson has more versatility than MVS.

MVS is to expensive for a 4th or 5th option

 

 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, arrowhead said:

I'll bet Jetlord's retirement check DHop signs.

The entre passing game benefits. If Toney can stay healthy, bejeebus. Moore, Rice, James, MVS (cap casualty) Watson. Maybe Ross or Ross.

5.000+   50+ for MVPat.

Nick Wright is calling for a 3peat. Works for me.

Good luck getting that check.  It was taken many years ago by a certain corporate raider who shall not be named here.  

Think I'll wait to forecast the WR room until Jones is signed, Hopkins is brought in, and we see how healthy Ross is after a few weeks of TC.  You other turkeys are getting ahead of yourselves.  

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, arrowhead said:

Richie replaces MVS production on the cheap. Moore and Rice (first year will be difficult, as we know) will contribute. 

Toney is a 4.3 guy. Watson has more versatility than MVS.

MVS is to expensive for a 4th or 5th option

 

 

Toney ran an official 4.41.  That's his only laser time.  The other was pro day time which is usually trash.

MVS is 6'4" and ran a 4.37 and has been even faster recording the top mph in 2021 among receivers and breaking 20 mph many many times.

Richie has 1 year of ok production, ran a 4.48 and has an RAS score of 6.0, slightly above average.

Watson set a new personal record last year with 15 whole catches and so far has not shown the ability to consistently get off press.  Please define versatility then.  I like Watson and hope we keep him but he has not proven he can handle a bigger workload yet.  While I think he can, we need to see it.

MVS right now is our #2 until Toney or Skyy prove otherwise, like it or not.