Chris Jones merged thread

[kkuenn 3,597]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38006635/jets-star-dt-quinnen-williams-reach-96m-deal

 

Williams signed for 4 years, 96 mil with 66 guaranteed. 24 per year. So Chiefs can beat that and make him the 2nd highest paid DT now. 

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,554]

Works for me. 

[xen 1,010,220]

Bout time

[xen 1,010,220]

CJ at the 2 min mark.  Think the speculation about any animosity and him being "sick" at the ring ceremony can go away now.

 

[oldtimer 8,686]

pay the man

[xen 1,010,220]

2 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

pay the man

Yep.  I mean... homegrown, early in his prime, and no player outside of mahomes and kelce has meant as much to this franchise.

Pay the man.  Let's get this done.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

That Williams deal should makes this deal fairly easy on both sides.  Hope this gets done quickly!

[kkuenn 3,597]

50 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

That Williams deal should makes this deal fairly easy on both sides.  Hope this gets done quickly!

Thinking 27 to 28 mil per year? This guy got 24 mil so anything less than 27 for me would be great.

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

That Williams deal should makes this deal fairly easy on both sides.  Hope this gets done quickly!

Not sure how easy.  It's easy to say Aaron Donald is an outlier but i doubt CJs agent sees it that way.  

[oldtimer 8,686]

7 minutes ago, xen said:

Not sure how easy.  It's easy to say Aaron Donald is an outlier but i doubt CJs agent sees it that way.  

one would hope that CJ has something to say about all this and he'd like to get this behind him. I'd hope that he was at the ESPYs is an indication of good will. His comments sure seem to be non combative.

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Thinking 27 to 28 mil per year? This guy got 24 mil so anything less than 27 for me would be great.

It's more about the guarantees.  Give him fours years, guarantee 75% of it.  That's a lot of moolah in anyone's book.  

[qnet 1,150]

Yeah, I hope they get it down now. Chris Jones has been worth it IMO. His production has been better than Williams by the time he was 25 (32 sacks vs. 27).

[sith13 1,746]

Not sure if they were waiting up for Williams intentionally but seems like a good deal to enable further talks. CJ should be signed rather soon and get back to wrecking havoc by week 1.

[kkuenn 3,597]

https://arrowheadaddict.com/posts/how-much-chris-jones-cost-kansas-city-chiefs-prediction

 

Let's predict something like $28.5M per year for four years ($114M) with $76M guaranteed.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I was thinking something in the 25-26 million per year with ~70 guaranteed.  Gonna be odd him recruiting players knowing his deal will be what fees up the money to sign those players if he is holding out for 30 million per year.  A 4/104million deal makes him the 2nd highest paid my 2 million per year.  I'm sure Veach has a number but can't imagine that Veach and Co weren't happy about the Williams deal.  For once lately it seems that a late signing hasn't screwed over their plans to get a big name signed.  

[xen 1,010,220]

7 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I was thinking something in the 25-26 million per year with ~70 guaranteed.  Gonna be odd him recruiting players knowing his deal will be what fees up the money to sign those players if he is holding out for 30 million per year.  A 4/104million deal makes him the 2nd highest paid my 2 million per year.  I'm sure Veach has a number but can't imagine that Veach and Co weren't happy about the Williams deal.  For once lately it seems that a late signing hasn't screwed over their plans to get a big name signed.  

Quinnen Williams has had 1 good year as a pass rusher and isn't close to CJ as a consistent gameplan wrecker.  He had 12 sacks last year and his career high other than that is 7.  Don't think 26 gets it done. 

CJ got 60 guaranteed last time and the market went way up.  Consider that AD's contract is mostly guaranteed at 31.5m.  The last 2 years are void years so unless they cut him before next year at an unreasonable cap hit he'll get it all.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

3 hours ago, xen said:

Quinnen Williams has had 1 good year as a pass rusher and isn't close to CJ as a consistent gameplan wrecker.  He had 12 sacks last year and his career high other than that is 7.  Don't think 26 gets it done. 

CJ got 60 guaranteed last time and the market went way up.  Consider that AD's contract is mostly guaranteed at 31.5m.  The last 2 years are void years so unless they cut him before next year at an unreasonable cap hit he'll get it all.

That’s true but Q is also ~4 years younger and Jones would be 34 at the end of a 4 year ext.  Jones is by far the better player but Q is ascending while CJ will be descending more than likely on the back side of the extension.  
 

AD is incredible but the Rams were stupid to pay that much.  As good as he is that contract is crippling.  CJ may want a lot more than 26 and we definitely need him but 26 million is 2 million more than Q and makes him the 2nd highest paid like he wanted.  You are probably right it will cost more but i hope not.   > 26 million for a DT is crazy money. 

[xen 1,010,220]

45 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

That’s true but Q is also ~4 years younger and Jones would be 34 at the end of a 4 year ext.  Jones is by far the better player but Q is ascending while CJ will be descending more than likely on the back side of the extension.  
 

AD is incredible but the Rams were stupid to pay that much.  As good as he is that contract is crippling.  CJ may want a lot more than 26 and we definitely need him but 26 million is 2 million more than Q and makes him the 2nd highest paid like he wanted.  You are probably right it will cost more but i hope not.   > 26 million for a DT is crazy money. 

CJ just turned 29 a few weeks ago so would be 32 during the year 4 season unless they tack the 4 year deal after this year, which I doubt considering his salary.

AD was still wrecking faces before he got hurt this season at 32.

DT is not a speed based postion so tends to age well.

Q may be ascending but he also hasn't proven that wasn't a one-off season.  We've seen a lot of pass rushers over the years have 1 great season and then fall back to the mean after that (*coughjustinhoustoncough*).

Teams can gameplan around great defensive ends with a quick passing game.  Much harder to do that with a great tackle like AD or CJ. 

Considering how much great ends get, the rising cap and its effect on the market, and the scarceness of the resource, its not crazy money at all.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

43 minutes ago, xen said:

CJ just turned 29 a few weeks ago so would be 32 during the year 4 season unless they tack the 4 year deal after this year, which I doubt considering his salary.

AD was still wrecking faces before he got hurt this season at 32.

DT is not a speed based postion so tends to age well.

Q may be ascending but he also hasn't proven that wasn't a one-off season.  We've seen a lot of pass rushers over the years have 1 great season and then fall back to the mean after that (*coughjustinhoustoncough*).

Teams can gameplan around great defensive ends with a quick passing game.  Much harder to do that with a great tackle like AD or CJ. 

Considering how much great ends get, the rising cap and its effect on the market, and the scarceness of the resource, its not crazy money at all.

26 plus million dollars for any player outside of a QB is crazy money.  Chris deserves to be paid but paying him 28.5 or more isn’t ideal.  

AD got paid for what he had already done for the most part and that deal is stupid even considering AD is the greatest to ever do it arguably.  

I want a deal to get done like the rest of us and if we pay him 28-29 per then so be it but that is tip top of the defensive market not just DT market.  Deals like that rarely work out the way teams hope they will, but he is our D and you have to reward/pay homegrown guys so if it has to be done CJ should be the guy.  

[timmy_6262 77]

1 hour ago, xen said:

CJ just turned 29 a few weeks ago so would be 32 during the year 4 season unless they tack the 4 year deal after this year, which I doubt considering his salary.

AD was still wrecking faces before he got hurt this season at 32.

DT is not a speed based postion so tends to age well. 

Q may be ascending but he also hasn't proven that wasn't a one-off season.  We've seen a lot of pass rushers over the years have 1 great season and then fall back to the mean after that (*coughjustinhoustoncough*). 

Teams can gameplan around great defensive ends with a quick passing game.  Much harder to do that with a great tackle like AD or CJ. 

Considering how much great ends get, the rising cap and its effect on the market, and the scarceness of the resource, its not crazy money at all.

What is Jones biggest asset?  His quickness off the ball so his speed is important.

you act like Jones hasn't had some very average seasons in-between his paydays.

Pretty amazing how when talk about contracts gets going on Jones he ends up with 15.5 sacks then he goes to under 10 the next 3 seasons. You rag on Houston but Jones isn't the complete opposite by any means.

I know he will get an extension I just hope it doesn't handicap us later when we want to keep some of the younger talent around for a 2nd contract like Sneed, Creed, Smith, Bolton and/or Gay.

[xen 1,010,220]

15 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

What is Jones biggest asset?  His quickness off the ball so his speed is important.

you act like Jones hasn't had some very average seasons in-between his paydays.

Pretty amazing how when talk about contracts gets going on Jones he ends up with 15.5 sacks then he goes to under 10 the next 3 seasons. You rag on Houston but Jones isn't the complete opposite by any means.

I know he will get an extension I just hope it doesn't handicap us later when we want to keep some of the younger talent around for a 2nd contract like Sneed, Creed, Smith, Bolton and/or Gay.

Quickness and speed are 2 different things.  CJ is quickness, strength and technique.

He hasn't had average seasons.  Sacks is a poor way to look at a pass rusher as there is high variance in most pass rushers when it comes to sacks.  He has been a very consistent pressure producer even though, unlike most pass rushers, he has not benefited from complimentary rushing from the rest of the line for the most part.

You and Lamardirts need to go find Doc Brown, hop in the DeLorean and go back about 5 to 10 years so you can be happier with the AAV's.  

[oldtimer 8,686]

26 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

What is Jones biggest asset?  His quickness off the ball so his speed is important.

you act like Jones hasn't had some very average seasons in-between his paydays.

Pretty amazing how when talk about contracts gets going on Jones he ends up with 15.5 sacks then he goes to under 10 the next 3 seasons. You rag on Houston but Jones isn't the complete opposite by any means.

I know he will get an extension I just hope it doesn't handicap us later when we want to keep some of the younger talent around for a 2nd contract like Sneed, Creed, Smith, Bolton and/or Gay.

he's  4 time consecutive Pro Bowler  all the while getting snubbed in 2018  AFTER he he had a 15.5 sack season. He's had 65 sacks in the 107 games he's played Every HOF player has had  "average" seasons. Comparing his production to other HOF DT's he's on pace to be one easily

[xen 1,010,220]

32 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

he's  4 time consecutive Pro Bowler  all the while getting snubbed in 2018  AFTER he he had a 15.5 sack season. He's had 65 sacks in the 107 games he's played Every HOF player has had  "average" seasons. Comparing his production to other HOF DT's he's on pace to be one easily

CJ is on pace to become only the 3rd DT in history to hit triple digit career sacks with AD and John Randle.  This argument about down sack years is lazy and I'm tired of hearing it.  You can watch the games and see what a difference maker he's been.  Even when he's had down years in sacks he still wrecking people's day.

[xen 1,010,220]

BTW for people acting like AD is getting 15 sacks a year.   He's done it once.  CJ twice.

[mex 65,581]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Quickness and speed are 2 different things.  CJ is quickness, strength and technique.

He hasn't had average seasons.  Sacks is a poor way to look at a pass rusher as there is high variance in most pass rushers when it comes to sacks.  He has been a very consistent pressure producer even though, unlike most pass rushers, he has not benefited from complimentary rushing from the rest of the line for the most part.

You and Lamardirts need to go find Doc Brown, hop in the DeLorean and go back about 5 to 10 years so you can be happier with the AAV's.  

CJ can stuff the run and eliminate that option on 2nd and long or 3rd and med. That bodes well for our DEs on 3rd down, and his ability to get to the QB on passing downs helps the secondary big time.

Interior DL is an underrated position these days... Jones can do it all.