Chris Jones merged thread

[arrowhead 1,070]

Saw this on a Chiefs Fan page. I know how they arrive at the number, but he still counts the same number on the cap even if his pay is withheld. Where's the salary cap guys?

If Chris Jones actually missed the first games of the season like he says this is what would happen:

1. He would lose $8,666,664 (Not counting Fines)

2. His Franchise Tag next season would go from $23,399,992.80 to $12,999,996.

Chris Jones is not missing any regular season games.

[azchief21 5,278]

1 hour ago, Joe_Chief said:

I have moved to the "fuck that guy" camp.  I love CJ as a player, but nobody is bigger than the team.  Except Pat, Maybe.  Trade his ass and let some other team mortgage their future for a DT about to be in his 30's.  It would definitely be a loss, because dominant pass rushing DT's are rare, but if I were Veach I wouldnt be held hostage by the guy.

Saw these guys a few months ago. Tom Petty's lead guitarist and drummer. Catchy tune

 

[azchief21 5,278]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Like Hill, the talking heads would write off the Chiefs if Jones is gone.  Like Hill, the Chiefs could improvise their way to another very successful year..

Apples and Oranges. Whoever replaced Hill had Mahomes throwing to him. Take CJ out of the D and that's a gaping hole that Mike Cox would have trouble filling. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

35 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Saw this on a Chiefs Fan page. I know how they arrive at the number, but he still counts the same number on the cap even if his pay is withheld. Where's the salary cap guys?

If Chris Jones actually missed the first games of the season like he says this is what would happen:

1. He would lose $8,666,664 (Not counting Fines)

2. His Franchise Tag next season would go from $23,399,992.80 to $12,999,996.

Chris Jones is not missing any regular season games.

That makes no sense. The player gets 120% of the last year of salary or the average top 5 at his position. No way in hell is the top 5 players at DT paid 13 mil average.

 

A franchise-tagged player receives a salary that is determined either by finding the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position or by calculating 120% of the player’s current salary. The player gets whichever is higher. 

 

[arrowhead 1,070]

10 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

That makes no sense. The player gets 120% of the last year of salary or the average top 5 at his position. No way in hell is the top 5 players at DT paid 13 mil average.

 

A franchise-tagged player receives a salary that is determined either by finding the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position or by calculating 120% of the player’s current salary. The player gets whichever is higher. 

 

That's what I thought. Thanks.

 

[mex 65,581]

5 hours ago, arthur75 said:

Let him sit and when he comes back in the middle of the year bench him for the rest. To me this whole get your money why you can shit just irritates me to no end. These fuckers are getting paid a stupid amount to play a game. This  greedy way of thinking is what kills teams. I say thank him for his time in KC and then trade his greedy ass. 

Shit no. He gets paid sitting on the bench too. Get his ass out there so he can play for his next contract.

[mex 65,581]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

This spring, I proposed trading Jones if he wasn't close to signing a deal.  The board came down on me like I'd proposed murdering kids or something.  That ship has sailed.  The Chiefs would be very lucky to get even a mid first for him at this point.  Jones may be at the top of his position group, but DT isn't a premium position.  Like Hill, the talking heads would write off the Chiefs if Jones is gone.  Like Hill, the Chiefs could improvise their way to another very successful year..  Trade Jones, sign Sneed, Bolton, Humphrey, and Smith.  

In fairness it's fun beating up on old men... they're slow and easy to catch.

[mex 65,581]

2 hours ago, Joe_Chief said:

I have moved to the "fuck that guy" camp.  I love CJ as a player, but nobody is bigger than the team.  Except Pat, Maybe. 

And go figure... Pat's out there working throughout the entire year, hitting it hard in camp, and Andy's got to pull rank on him to keep him on the preseason sidelines after his first series.

Two entirely different men.

[arrowhead 1,070]

3 minutes ago, mex said:

In fairness it's fun beating up on old men... they're slow and easy to catch.

We're harder to catch if we know a shortcut.

[mex 65,581]

35 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Apples and Oranges. Whoever replaced Hill had Mahomes throwing to him. Take CJ out of the D and that's a gaping hole that Mike Cox would have trouble filling. 

York Cox couldn't fill an espresso cup. 

[mex 65,581]

3 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

We're harder to catch if we know a shortcut.

inside jokes are the best

like my shortcuts

[azchief21 5,278]

1 minute ago, mex said:

York Cox couldn't fill an espresso cup. 

That's not what J Conn says

 

(Note: I will use any opportunity to post this pic)

 

[mex 65,581]

Just now, azchief21 said:

That's not what J Conn says

 

(Note: I will use any opportunity to post this pic)

 

(note: nobody ever complains when you do)

[reesebobby 5,661]

11 minutes ago, mex said:

(note: nobody ever complains when you do)

She has good eyebrows. 

[azchief21 5,278]

2 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

She has good eyebrows. 

They are real and they are spectacular. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

31 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

We're harder to catch if we know a shortcut.

Or a wormhole.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

I'm getting fed up with CJ, too.  What kind of game is he playing?  I guess when he said he wanted to be a Chief for life, he forgot to add " as long as they pay me a billion dollars."  It's a shame.  Without him, I don't think we will be good enough to do much this year other than a wildcard.  What or who is it that he has a beef with in KC? Is he pissed at Veach?  Is being paid only 30 million dollars to play football for a year with a fantastic organization some kind of blow to his ego? 

My feeling at this point is that he should report now or be traded for an early and mid round pick. Then let Veach be Veach and shoot for a Super Bowl in Feb 2025.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

13 hours ago, mex said:

I mean, that's a lot... but if the contract is 5 years we're only talking 2 mil per in guaranteed money to quibble about. That's not all that much these days but I see your point.

At first I thought CJ was just wanting to avoid the hot days of camp. But if he's willing to sit out 8 games... it's gotta be WAY more than that. Unless his agent is a complete moron.

CJ has his rings, and he's at the apex of his career coming off an absolute dominant performance in the playoffs. Can't blame him for focusing on the bag. 

That said, can't blame the fans for being critical either. We all act in our own best interest.

I trust Veach to do what's in the best long-term interest of the team. That's what the fans expect.

Personally, I think freeing up the $$ to solidify the future OL is way more important than one defensive lineman, even if he is all-world. 

Because our QB is all-universe... a once-in-a-lifetime player 10 times more valuable to this team than CJ. 3/5th of the OL is coming up for contracts. Gotta think that's what Veach is thinking about. Plus, our secondary will be more experienced, as will our LB corps and DL, and Veach also has THOSE guys to think about. That's a tough draw I don't care who you are.

CJ is still under contract. A contract which he happily endorsed. Not playing out his contract is a big fuck you to the organization and to the fans. So I can't blame the front office nor the fans for being pissed.

By mid-season, there will be contenders who need a good interior defensive lineman. If CJ sits out, we ought to be able to trade and get some draft picks, while freeing up the cap dollars to land a temp replacement.

JMHO

I remember two things about him.  I remember the broad jump event at the Combine before we drafted him, when his junk came out of his shorts and he had to quickly tuck it back in there and pretend nobody noticed.  I knew we had to draft him.

The next thing that "stands out" are the many,  many times last season when the defense would come off the field, and the cameras showed Jones breathing so fast while hunched over on the bench with an oxygen mask on, that I was worried he was dying of respiratory failure.  Some would say that is because he tries harder than anyone else, but his respiratons looked really labored to me.  My guess is that we saw his peak, and now age is catching up.  A few good years left, but not at the money he is asking.

[jetlord 10,207]

3 hours ago, azchief21 said:

Apples and Oranges. Whoever replaced Hill had Mahomes throwing to him. Take CJ out of the D and that's a gaping hole that Mike Cox would have trouble filling. 

No one is saying that Jones hasn't played well and contributed to the Chiefs' success.  But that doesn't make him indispensable.  I'd rather see Jones traded and keep Bolton, Humphreys, Sneed, and Smith than overpay him and lose at least two of the others.  He's worth getting the second highest pay of any DT.  He's not worth tearing up the team. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

Wonder what Veach is working on as to a plan B. 
As it sits today we have 2- D line out. One comes back week 6. ( wonder if that will be shortened to 4) and the other says week 8. Maybe week 1. Not sure. 
then we have sneed who hasn’t practiced at all. 
veach needs to find a way to get Suh. And Dunlop. 
 

[kccrow 529]

At this point, he's also hamstringing the team because the Chiefs have no room to make a move to help offset his absence.

With Omenihu out 6 games, there isn't any depth there aside from Wharton that really gives you any hope. It would be nice to at least bring in a vet who plays okay like Matt Ioannidis. At least when Omenihu gets back you have a solid rotation there. 

I'm not against trading him now if they can get a package like sending him to Atlanta for a 1st, 3rd, and NT Timmy Horne. I feel like Horne would nicely fill in the NT rotation and you worry about the rest when you can worry about the rest. Alas, that's more an ideal than a likelihood. Not only do you want a team to trade for him that gives you a shot at a high pick, but there are only so many teams that will want to take on Jones' salary, even if they can whittle down this year's number, and give up top-end picks. At least with a team like Atlanta, they have a huge need for 3-4 DEs as they look to start a 37-year-old Campbell opposite Jarrett with pretty much no real depth. They've done a lot to some of the rest of that defense by trading for Okudah and adding Bates and Ellis. Jones would help give them a shot, so you never know what the former Saints in the building might do as they love to build the DL.

Overall, I would hope they'd reach an agreement soon but the writing seems to be on the wall that it isn't happening. 

[xen 1,010,219]

12 hours ago, arrowhead said:

Saw this on a Chiefs Fan page. I know how they arrive at the number, but he still counts the same number on the cap even if his pay is withheld. Where's the salary cap guys?

If Chris Jones actually missed the first games of the season like he says this is what would happen:

1. He would lose $8,666,664 (Not counting Fines)

2. His Franchise Tag next season would go from $23,399,992.80 to $12,999,996.

Chris Jones is not missing any regular season games.

His franchise tag next year would be over 33m if he shows up since its 120% of his salary cap hit this year.

However if he holds out til week 8 his cap hit this year is reduced so the tag next year would be 120% of his reduced cap hit this year.  Base salary this year would be reduced by 8 game checks, so that would come off the cap and his cap hit.  Game checks are base salary divided by 17.

I would guess 120% of that is more than the average top 5 at his position so probably a tag in the low to mid 20's.

No way will he make it much easier for KC to tag him next year, that would be a really dumb move by his agent.

[xen 1,010,219]

Ok so math says top 5 AAV at DT is 24.708m so that would be the floor for an exclusive tag.  That would actually be higher than 120% of his salary cap hit with 8 games missed and him earning his incentive.

[xen 1,010,219]

11 hours ago, kkuenn said:

That makes no sense. The player gets 120% of the last year of salary or the average top 5 at his position. No way in hell is the top 5 players at DT paid 13 mil average.

 

A franchise-tagged player receives a salary that is determined either by finding the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position or by calculating 120% of the player’s current salary. The player gets whichever is higher. 

 

That's where people go wrong.  They read salary as base salary but replace the word salary with salary cap hit, which is what they use to determine the 120%

[xen 1,010,219]

10 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I'm getting fed up with CJ, too.  What kind of game is he playing?  I guess when he said he wanted to be a Chief for life, he forgot to add " as long as they pay me a billion dollars."  It's a shame.  Without him, I don't think we will be good enough to do much this year other than a wildcard.  What or who is it that he has a beef with in KC? Is he pissed at Veach?  Is being paid only 30 million dollars to play football for a year with a fantastic organization some kind of blow to his ego? 

My feeling at this point is that he should report now or be traded for an early and mid round pick. Then let Veach be Veach and shoot for a Super Bowl in Feb 2025.

He's not being paid 30m this year, that's just his cap hit.