Chris Jones merged thread

[Holmes4six! 968]

56 minutes ago, xen said:

I think salary amounts you were expected to pay but don't end up paying for whatever reason are deducted from the next years cap.  The language in the CBA is legalese.

BTW don't believe anything you hear on actual amounts that could be forfeited.  The CBA allows a lot of leeway in contract language on what can be forfeited including %'s of most bonuses.  But it also doesn't require players to agree to that language.  So unless we saw the details of his contract who knows on the totals.

Fyi we will need to clear cap space going into the season with our top 51 plus PS so if you see some restructures or unexpected cuts of higher salaries then they're not close to a deal with CJ.  

Good point. 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, xen said:

I think salary amounts you were expected to pay but don't end up paying for whatever reason are deducted from the next years cap.  The language in the CBA is legalese.

BTW don't believe anything you hear on actual amounts that could be forfeited.  The CBA allows a lot of leeway in contract language on what can be forfeited including %'s of most bonuses.  But it also doesn't require players to agree to that language.  So unless we saw the details of his contract who knows on the totals.

Fyi we will need to clear cap space going into the season with our top 51 plus PS so if you see some restructures or unexpected cuts of higher salaries then they're not close to a deal with CJ.  

So apparently Veach assumed all summer that the Chiefs would get some cap relief from a Jones extension.  Now that is out the window so they have to go back to some other player.  Do you think Kelce, Thuney, or even Mahomes are candidates?  Not many other vets that would have that flexibility.  Will they get any relief from the Omenihu suspension?  Also, AP had an article that trading CEH away would save a little over $2 million. 

[xen 1,010,220]

24 minutes ago, jetlord said:

So apparently Veach assumed all summer that the Chiefs would get some cap relief from a Jones extension.  Now that is out the window so they have to go back to some other player.  Do you think Kelce, Thuney, or even Mahomes are candidates?  Not many other vets that would have that flexibility.  Will they get any relief from the Omenihu suspension?  Also, AP had an article that trading CEH away would save a little over $2 million. 

I wish they would trade CEH.  Don't see how even Perine doesn't give you more.

They don't have to clear much.  Kelce seems an obvious candidate for an extension contract wise, but age is a factor.

Mahomes conversions have to be done by start of league year as they are mostly roster bonuses iirc.

Shouldn't be too tough.  Mike Borgonzi is a contract wizard.

[bamaroyal 87]

Seems like the Chiefs end up getting screwed when they give out large contracts to defensive players.

See Justin Houston and Eric Berry as examples.

If the Chiefs can find an NFC doormat team to trade him to they should to it. 

It may hurt the Chiefs now but it would be better in the long term.

CJ can enjoy that cash on a 3-14 team!

[Lamardirts 2,114]

4 hours ago, xen said:

I think salary amounts you were expected to pay but don't end up paying for whatever reason are deducted from the next years cap.  The language in the CBA is legalese.

BTW don't believe anything you hear on actual amounts that could be forfeited.  The CBA allows a lot of leeway in contract language on what can be forfeited including %'s of most bonuses.  But it also doesn't require players to agree to that language.  So unless we saw the details of his contract who knows on the totals.

Fyi we will need to clear cap space going into the season with our top 51 plus PS so if you see some restructures or unexpected cuts of higher salaries then they're not close to a deal with CJ.  

Won't he be a free agent next year and I don't think he has any dead cap after this year so wouldn't that be added to this years cap with each passing week. I don't know per se, but heard a guy on one of the Chiefs podcast talking about that (can't remember which podcast it was though).   It also makes it easier to tag him.  The Chiefs aren't budging imo.  I think he has used all his leverage and the only leverage he has left is hoping his absence costs us games and we get desperate.  His sitting out hurts his chances of getting a bigger contract next year because of age and current year production (assuming his hold out affects his production on the field and I don't see how sitting out games is going to help you repeat a year like last year) and it also makes it easier and easier for the team to tag you next year.   What incentive do the Chiefs have in caving other than having CJ for the first half of the season.  

To compound it for CJ, the first half is the easier half of the schedule.  If we run off a bunch of wins without him then what?  He has burned money this year that he will likely never see again.  He said he would sit out till week 8 which is like 10 million lost.  I can't see how, even with a new contract he can make that back.  Just odd imo.

Why not be with your team and put together another year like last year and hit fee agency with the chance that some team will offer you the moon and with your tag number being so high the Chiefs can't afford to tag him.  

I think we all are getting tired of this, but since we don't know the numbers its hard to judge too harshly.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, bamaroyal said:

Seems like the Chiefs end up getting screwed when they give out large contracts to defensive players.

See Justin Houston and Eric Berry as examples.

If the Chiefs can find an NFC doormat team to trade him to they should to it. 

It may hurt the Chiefs now but it would be better in the long term.

CJ can enjoy that cash on a 3-14 team!

I would include Frank Clark in that as well.   Conversely, CJ has lived up to his contract which was a hefty contract at the time.   DT's also tend to last longer than DE's and Safeties s so we have going for us.

[xen 1,010,220]

26 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Won't he be a free agent next year and I don't think he has any dead cap after this year so wouldn't that be added to this years cap with each passing week. I don't know per se, but heard a guy on one of the Chiefs podcast talking about that (can't remember which podcast it was though).   It also makes it easier to tag him.  The Chiefs aren't budging imo.  I think he has used all his leverage and the only leverage he has left is hoping his absence costs us games and we get desperate.  His sitting out hurts his chances of getting a bigger contract next year because of age and current year production (assuming his hold out affects his production on the field and I don't see how sitting out games is going to help you repeat a year like last year) and it also makes it easier and easier for the team to tag you next year.   What incentive do the Chiefs have in caving other than having CJ for the first half of the season.  

To compound it for CJ, the first half is the easier half of the schedule.  If we run off a bunch of wins without him then what?  He has burned money this year that he will likely never see again.  He said he would sit out till week 8 which is like 10 million lost.  I can't see how, even with a new contract he can make that back.  Just odd imo.

Why not be with your team and put together another year like last year and hit fee agency with the chance that some team will offer you the moon and with your tag number being so high the Chiefs can't afford to tag him.  

I think we all are getting tired of this, but since we don't know the numbers its hard to judge too harshly.

Yes I put a post earlier in this thread.  Joel Corry put it out on the tweeterX.  He's a former agent and a good follow for cap junkies.  Franchise tag is based on cap hit so if CJ forfeits 8 weeks salary his cap hit reduces and the tag is probably in the 24m range.  The numbers I've seen out there say anywhere from 20-23 but it can't be lower than the average of the top 5 at the position for an exclusive tag, which is around 24.  

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Yes I put a post earlier in this thread.  Joel Corry put it out on the tweeterX.  He's a former agent and a good follow for cap junkies.  Franchise tag is based on cap hit so if CJ forfeits 8 weeks salary his cap hit reduces and the tag is probably in the 24m range.  The numbers I've seen out there say anywhere from 20-23 but it can't be lower than the average of the top 5 at the position for an exclusive tag, which is around 24.  

Wait.  We tagged him once before so this would be a 2nd tag.  I keep forgetting that.  Then it's 120% of cap hit.  

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

I trust in Cullen to prepare a good line.  Trade Jones, get some cap space and picks. We won't be as good of a D-line this year without Jones, but even with him, he would be in noticeable decline by next year.  He is about to hit his age wall.  We have the pieces to have at least as good a D based on the improved linebackers and secondary pieces and guys in their second years with Spags. Somewhere in the top 15.  We are an offensive team.  It is better to maintain the chemistry than to appease an LCP (last contract prima donna). Don't mortgage the dynasty by overpaying an aging superstar.

[xen 1,010,220]

2 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I trust in Cullen to prepare a good line.  Trade Jones, get some cap space and picks. We won't be as good of a D-line this year without Jones, but even with him, he would be in noticeable decline by next year.  He is about to hit his age wall.  We have the pieces to have at least as good a D based on the improved linebackers and secondary pieces and guys in their second years with Spags. Somewhere in the top 15.  We are an offensive team.  It is better to maintain the chemistry than to appease a LCP (last contract prima donna). Don't mortgage the dynasty by overpaying an aging superstar.

lol our line will not be good without CJ.

And the DT wall is not at 30.

Let's be realistic at least.

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Won't he be a free agent next year and I don't think he has any dead cap after this year so wouldn't that be added to this years cap with each passing week. I don't know per se, but heard a guy on one of the Chiefs podcast talking about that (can't remember which podcast it was though).   It also makes it easier to tag him.  The Chiefs aren't budging imo.  I think he has used all his leverage and the only leverage he has left is hoping his absence costs us games and we get desperate.  His sitting out hurts his chances of getting a bigger contract next year because of age and current year production (assuming his hold out affects his production on the field and I don't see how sitting out games is going to help you repeat a year like last year) and it also makes it easier and easier for the team to tag you next year.   What incentive do the Chiefs have in caving other than having CJ for the first half of the season.  

To compound it for CJ, the first half is the easier half of the schedule.  If we run off a bunch of wins without him then what?  He has burned money this year that he will likely never see again.  He said he would sit out till week 8 which is like 10 million lost.  I can't see how, even with a new contract he can make that back.  Just odd imo.

Why not be with your team and put together another year like last year and hit fee agency with the chance that some team will offer you the moon and with your tag number being so high the Chiefs can't afford to tag him.  

I think we all are getting tired of this, but since we don't know the numbers its hard to judge too harshly.

Joel to the rescue

 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

4 minutes ago, xen said:

lol our line will not be good without CJ.

And the DT wall is not at 30.

Let's be realistic at least.

Screw realistic. I'll tell you what's realistic:  Mahomes, Chiefs Kingdom, Spags, Veach, Reid, Cullen, Nagy, and some money. LIke I said before.  I saw the guy on the bench after each defensive series.  He looked like a guy in respiratory failure, gasping for oxygen.

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

You heard it here first.  Chris Jones will report to the team on Monday!  There is no way he walks away from 8 million dollars, PERIOD.  Or affect his franchise value next year!  Take my statement to the bank!!!!!!!!

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

You heard it here first.  Chris Jones will report to the team on Monday!  There is no way he walks away from 8 million dollars, PERIOD.  Or affect his franchise value next year!  Take my statement to the bank!!!!!!!!

The question that I've never seen an answer to is if Jones loses a game check if he reports on Sept. 5, for example, and is obviously not ready to play a game? 

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

2 hours ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

You heard it here first.  Chris Jones will report to the team on Monday!  There is no way he walks away from 8 million dollars, PERIOD.  Or affect his franchise value next year!  Take my statement to the bank!!!!!!!!

yeah, i cannot see that happening either

[Lamardirts 2,114]

7 hours ago, xen said:

Wait.  We tagged him once before so this would be a 2nd tag.  I keep forgetting that.  Then it's 120% of cap hit.  

How does that work.  Didn't we tag him only through the offeason.  Didn't he play that year on a new deal.  Does that still count?  Or am I misremembering.

[kkuenn 3,597]

Lately scrolling through X, was Twitter, seeing a lot about Bears, Poles specifically,  calling about Jones. They have two 1st rounders next year. Man the last time a good DT was traded was Buckner to Indy for the 13th overall pick to SF. Would their highest 1st and maybe a 2nd in the next year do it? I doubt Chiefs could get both 1st rounders next year.

[oldtimer 8,686]

6 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Lately scrolling through X, was Twitter, seeing a lot about Bears, Poles specifically,  calling about Jones. They have two 1st rounders next year. Man the last time a good DT was traded was Buckner to Indy for the 13th overall pick to SF. Would their highest 1st and maybe a 2nd in the next year do it? I doubt Chiefs could get both 1st rounders next year.

I saw something about the Bears but more as a joke than anything else but yea send him to Chi Town

[kccrow 529]

Saw some bullshit on Facebook about Tennessee giving Hopkins and two firsts lol. I don't think that'll happen but the Bears is definitely a possibility in my mind. 

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

11 hours ago, kccrow said:

Saw some bullshit on Facebook about Tennessee giving Hopkins and two firsts lol. I don't think that'll happen but the Bears is definitely a possibility in my mind. 

Take that offer and RUN all the way to the bank

[kkuenn 3,597]

Last DT traded was Buckner from SF to Colts. He was coming off a very good 2019 season, 26 years old and they got a 1st round pick which was 13th overall.  I doubt we get two 1st round picks but if we do, Veech is a God them for sure.

[Calichief 3,016]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:37 PM, xen said:

lol our line will not be good without CJ.

And the DT wall is not at 30.

Let's be realistic at least.

Especially with Charles out for six weeks. Could be ugly. Leading to the db’s also struggling. Back to the shootouts 

[kccrow 529]

If they trade CJ, at least they can make some additions to fix the problem in the short term. Add Dunlap and Ioannidis into the fold and you'd have a solid rotation, then when Omenihu gets back it gets stronger. I think those 3 and Wharton can generate enough pressure from the interior that it wouldn't be a massive liability.

Hanging onto CJ for potentially 8 weeks of a holdout? That will be a problem. 

[xen 1,010,220]

38 minutes ago, kccrow said:

If they trade CJ, at least they can make some additions to fix the problem in the short term. Add Dunlap and Ioannidis into the fold and you'd have a solid rotation, then when Omenihu gets back it gets stronger. I think those 3 and Wharton can generate enough pressure from the interior that it wouldn't be a massive liability.

Hanging onto CJ for potentially 8 weeks of a holdout? That will be a problem. 

Very little chance he sits out more than a few weeks.  Any longer and he just makes it easier to tag him next year.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

He has waited so long he has backed himself in a corner.  Feels like an OBJ situation.  Overestimated his value and might end up losing out on millions.