Chris Jones merged thread

[xen 1,010,220]

Just now, West said:

It has become a major distraction for sure......

I was all in to resign  CJ when this was fist started in the spring.

Now I am all about the Chiefs being very rational and if he as to be traded...I can live with it

w

Can you live with not maximizing the current window and not having some Lombardi's we might otherwise have?

Cause I think trading CJ probably makes that happen.

Chiefs have over 50m+ in cap space next year and 154m in space in 2025 when our 2020 draft picks come up for FA and CJ would be in the last year of a 3 year deal.  Signing CJ in no way precludes us from competing in the future or re-signing whomever we want (I know that's Jet's argument not yours but I'm tired of hearing it and it's dumb).

[arthur75 415]

13 minutes ago, xen said:

Once I see you take less than your market value for your job I'll concede you have a point.  And no it doesn’t matter if its $20 per hour or $200,000.  It's the free market people, everything else is just jealousy over people making a lot of money.  Well boo hoo life is tough.   Get gud and be worth more.

Contracts don't mean shit in the NFL as teams can break them with little to no consequences and do so every year.

How do you know I already don't? Way to assume.  Jealous of the money he makes lol  c'mon be serious. Way to have a very bad take. I applaud you.

[arthur75 415]

10 minutes ago, xen said:

Can you live with not maximizing the current window and not having some Lombardi's we might otherwise have?

Cause I think trading CJ probably makes that happen.

Chiefs have over 50m+ in cap space next year and 154m in space in 2025 when our 2020 draft picks come up for FA and CJ would be in the last year of a 3 year deal.  Signing CJ in no way precludes us from competing in the future or re-signing whomever we want (I know that's Jet's argument not yours but I'm tired of hearing it and it's dumb).

Actually its a very good argument.  So all these teams that are in salary cap hell is not because of bad contracts?  Wow I had it wrong all these years. 

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, arthur75 said:

Actually its a very good argument.  So all these teams that are in salary cap hell is not because of bad contracts?  Wow I had it wrong all these years. 

Ok so work put the math for me then and show me how an extra 11 mil over 3 years takes us from a good contract to cap hell.  Cause that's the difference right now in the 2 sides.

[Okiechief1 425]

2 hours ago, xen said:

That's not really the offer though, that's just counting new money and ignoring the current year salary.   Not ignoring the current year puts the total at less than 25 per for 3 years total.  There's a deal here to be done but veach gonna need to come up a little.  A true 28 per deal for 3 years for sure gets it done if you believe CJ, which puts it at 84m total.  I think the deal ultimately come in at low 80's for 3 years.

What's going to move the needle to make Veach come up a little though? They have gone periods of time during this where they haven't talked  and Reid said a couple days ago no progress has been made.   Him and his agent have been in town for a few days you would think if Veach was going to up his offer it would done while they are both here IMO.   I think Veach is at a point of take it or leave it and will revisit this after the season.  

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Ok so work put the math for me then and show me how an extra 11 mil over 3 years takes us from a good contract to cap hell.  Cause that's the difference right now in the 2 sides.

Well if he comes up, the guarantees would come up too. That extra 11 million if he falls off the face of the earth after this year plus higher guarantees would be hard to swallow especially if he is cut. I mean thinking of giving another year to be sure would then be year after year 2 and cost us the almost 30 mil for the year and then not really saving much if cut. 11 million to swallow is like not signing a very good player or 2 that just is thrown away on top of whatever salary he would still get. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Ok so work put the math for me then and show me how an extra 11 mil over 3 years takes us from a good contract to cap hell.  Cause that's the difference right now in the 2 sides.

I in no way think that puts us in cap hell but the first year won't be at his current amount (we won't know until a deal is signed what that first year actually would be....maybe 10 million) so those next 2 years won't be at 3.66.  Even if its 8 million more extra those two years it doesn't put us in cap hell, but 8 million a year is a serviceable player we can't sign.   That might be the only real argument.  We lose a Willie Gay type player because of it.  Not sure that exactly kills us though.   

I know you didn't ask me and I know I've not indicated that signing him would put us in cap hell.  I am actually surprised (if Florio's report is true), why the Chiefs haven't already signed him.  A 3 year extensions with his current contract ripped up isn't bad.  We pay a little more but we avoid the years when CJ is playing at 32 and above.    

I am actually someone who thinks CJ is more important than Creed, Trey, or Bolton and probably a combination of the two.   We have won a SB without any of those guys and while I want all three back none of them impact a game like CJ can especially for the D.  Creed is the one guy and like you said in an earlier post we can absolutely afford to resign him regardless of what we do with  CJ.  Bolton next and then Trey.  Which both might price themselves out of town this year, but if we wanted to we could sign all of them.  

Crazy that it has come to this and I don't think the Chiefs are budging, even if we lose.  The longer this drags out the more leverage they have and the cheaper it gets to control him next year.   Can't wait for it all to be over with.

[oldtimer 8,686]

as I'm filling the Hummingbird Feeders I just made myself chuckle at the thought  of waking up finding out that the Chiefs have traded CJ to the Lions

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

I in no way think that puts us in cap hell but the first year won't be at his current amount (we won't know until a deal is signed what that first year actually would be....maybe 10 million) so those next 2 years won't be at 3.66.  Even if its 8 million more extra those two years it doesn't put us in cap hell, but 8 million a year is a serviceable player we can't sign.   That might be the only real argument.  We lose a Willie Gay type player because of it.  Not sure that exactly kills us though.   

I know you didn't ask me and I know I've not indicated that signing him would put us in cap hell.  I am actually surprised (if Florio's report is true), why the Chiefs haven't already signed him.  A 3 year extensions with his current contract ripped up isn't bad.  We pay a little more but we avoid the years when CJ is playing at 32 and above.    

I am actually someone who thinks CJ is more important than Creed, Trey, or Bolton and probably a combination of the two.   We have won a SB without any of those guys and while I want all three back none of them impact a game like CJ can especially for the D.  Creed is the one guy and like you said in an earlier post we can absolutely afford to resign him regardless of what we do with  CJ.  Bolton next and then Trey.  Which both might price themselves out of town this year, but if we wanted to we could sign all of them.  

Crazy that it has come to this and I don't think the Chiefs are budging, even if we lose.  The longer this drags out the more leverage they have and the cheaper it gets to control him next year.   Can't wait for it all to be over with.

I am not sure we will try to re-sign Trey, Gay or Sneed.  Sneed because Veach can pull good corners out his butt and the other 2 because those positions are easier to find replacements.  Pay Creed and Bolton, as they are important players at positions you can pay relatively less.  

I do think Veach is dug in on his price but guess we'll see.  He may want to see what the D looks like in the first game or 2 before he agrees to come off his price.  He also knows CJ gotta show up at some time.

I did see an interesting note.  Only 6 current players were on both of our superbowl winning teams and 2 of them are the kicker and long snapper.  In Veach we trust.  

[kkuenn 3,597]

54 minutes ago, xen said:

I am not sure we will try to re-sign Trey, Gay or Sneed.  Sneed because Veach can pull good corners out his butt and the other 2 because those positions are easier to find replacements.  Pay Creed and Bolton, as they are important players at positions you can pay relatively less.  

I do think Veach is dug in on his price but guess we'll see.  He may want to see what the D looks like in the first game or 2 before he agrees to come off his price.  He also knows CJ gotta show up at some time.

I did see an interesting note.  Only 6 current players were on both of our superbowl winning teams and 2 of them are the kicker and long snapper.  In Veach we trust.  

Sneed is gone as is either Gay or Tranquil. We will sign one of the two for wither the better deal if both play great ir whoever beats the other out this year. Get 2 comp picks that way and all depends on what Trey asks for, but we are deep in o line guys too.

[xen 1,010,220]

12 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Sneed is gone as is either Gay or Tranquil. We will sign one of the two for wither the better deal if both play great ir whoever beats the other out this year. Get 2 comp picks that way and all depends on what Trey asks for, but we are deep in o line guys too.

I don't think Gay will stay.  I'm just not sure how much Spags trusts him to be in the right spot. Tranquil looks promising though.

[mex 65,581]

6 hours ago, xen said:

That's not really the offer though, that's just counting new money and ignoring the current year salary.   Not ignoring the current year puts the total at less than 25 per for 3 years total.  There's a deal here to be done but veach gonna need to come up a little.  A true 28 per deal for 3 years for sure gets it done if you believe CJ, which puts it at 84m total.  I think the deal ultimately come in at low 80's for 3 years.

Not sure why they aren't closer... are they that close to the cap in 2023/2024?

[xen 1,010,220]

36 minutes ago, mex said:

Not sure why they aren't closer... are they that close to the cap in 2023/2024?

Yeah I think that'd gotta be part of the holdup.  Would be great if we could throw some of it on this year but they're up against it.

[Joe_Chief 1,092]

He was in the stands between his agents...like a big black dong between 2 wrinkled white nuts.

[SEMO 6,811]

Ballsy move

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Well we lost. I'm sure CJ's agents wanted that, but do any of you think this lost gave them any more leverage?  I actually believe it did the opposite.  The D held their own and looked solid vs a top offense.  Could be way off but I truly believe the leverage is completely in Veach and Co hands right now.  And I might want to report before Veach goes out and trades for a veteran WR.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

11 hours ago, xen said:

Can you live with not maximizing the current window and not having some Lombardi's we might otherwise have?

Cause I think trading CJ probably makes that happen.

Chiefs have over 50m+ in cap space next year and 154m in space in 2025 when our 2020 draft picks come up for FA and CJ would be in the last year of a 3 year deal.  Signing CJ in no way precludes us from competing in the future or re-signing whomever we want (I know that's Jet's argument not yours but I'm tired of hearing it and it's dumb).

I think after tonight, a lombardi is unlikely this year. I’d trade Jones for capital and players and keep rebuilding. Outside of Kelce and maybe Pacheco, the skill positions on this team on offense are BAD. 30 year old Chris Jones isn’t going to be the guy in my mind.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Just now, Thegoatee said:

I think after tonight, a lombardi is unlikely this year. I’d trade Jones for capital and players and keep rebuilding. Outside of Kelce and maybe Pacheco, the skill positions on this team on offense are BAD. 30 year old Chris Jones isn’t going to be the guy in my mind.

I don't know man.  We lost to a good team with 2 of our best 3 players out and some miserable mistakes that won't happen every week.  Our D could be legit good when CJ and Omenihu comes back.  Kelce will make a big difference.  I would say you go hunting for a wr via trade.  In the heart of Mahomes career I don't think you punt even one season.  Get to the playoffs and you always have a chance.  

[Thegoatee 1,780]

2 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I don't know man.  We lost to a good team with 2 of our best 3 players out and some miserable mistakes that won't happen every week.  Our D could be legit good when CJ and Omenihu comes back.  Kelce will make a big difference.  I would say you go hunting for a wr via trade.  In the heart of Mahomes career I don't think you punt even one season.  Get to the playoffs and you always have a chance.  

If CJ really sits out until week 8, I think the whole team will not respect him anymore. A lot probably tired of seeing his social media melodrama. He is a distraction every week for everyone. Let him go make $100 million for the Browns or some dreg franchise.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

7 hours ago, xen said:

I am not sure we will try to re-sign Trey, Gay or Sneed.  Sneed because Veach can pull good corners out his butt and the other 2 because those positions are easier to find replacements.  Pay Creed and Bolton, as they are important players at positions you can pay relatively less.  

I do think Veach is dug in on his price but guess we'll see.  He may want to see what the D looks like in the first game or 2 before he agrees to come off his price.  He also knows CJ gotta show up at some time.

I did see an interesting note.  Only 6 current players were on both of our superbowl winning teams and 2 of them are the kicker and long snapper.  In Veach we trust.  

I agree xen and think that is probably Veach's thinking as well.  Gay, for being an athletic freak sure isn't able to use that ability as much as you'd like.  Tonight he got washed out by a pathetic block on an important 4th down I think.  

What are your thoughts on the D's performance tonight.  Obviously CJ makes that unit way way better but I think the D did really good under the circumstances.  To the point that I think Veach doesn't budge.  Gotta think we might need to find a reliable wr solution if these issues continue.  Would be said to have a wr corp that lets Mahomes down as much as they did tonight.  We should have won by 20 tonight.   Play calling and WR's looked terrible tonight.

[xen 1,010,220]

6 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

I think after tonight, a lombardi is unlikely this year. I’d trade Jones for capital and players and keep rebuilding. Outside of Kelce and maybe Pacheco, the skill positions on this team on offense are BAD. 30 year old Chris Jones isn’t going to be the guy in my mind.

Overreaction

[xen 1,010,220]

5 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I agree xen and think that is probably Veach's thinking as well.  Gay, for being an athletic freak sure isn't able to use that ability as much as you'd like.  Tonight he got washed out by a pathetic block on an important 4th down I think.  

What are your thoughts on the D's performance tonight.  Obviously CJ makes that unit way way better but I think the D did really good under the circumstances.  To the point that I think Veach doesn't budge.  Gotta think we might need to find a reliable wr solution if these issues continue.  Would be said to have a wr corp that lets Mahomes down as much as they did tonight.  We should have won by 20 tonight.   Play calling and WR's looked terrible tonight.

I think what veach will see is that despite a really great effort from the D, that we got virtually no pressure with the 4 man rush.  That said, interested to see how they look next week against a much mote average oline.  If they still don't get pressure we may see some movement.

I think the WR's will be fine.  They're still talented but Toney obviously was rusty as hell after sitting so long.  That's a lot of newness on offense without their safety net in Kelce.  It will take a while to jell.

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

6 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

I think after tonight, a lombardi is unlikely this year. I’d trade Jones for capital and players and keep rebuilding. Outside of Kelce and maybe Pacheco, the skill positions on this team on offense are BAD. 30 year old Chris Jones isn’t going to be the guy in my mind.

You got all of this from ONE Game

[Joe_Chief 1,092]

17 minutes ago, KC Warpaint said:

You got all of this from ONE Game

People were saying the same shit after the loss to the Colts last season.  One game does not a season make.

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,554]

7 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

I think after tonight, a lombardi is unlikely this year. I’d trade Jones for capital and players and keep rebuilding. Outside of Kelce and maybe Pacheco, the skill positions on this team on offense are BAD. 30 year old Chris Jones isn’t going to be the guy in my mind.

Get some sleep. Go outside and take a nice walk. Read an uplifting book. Have a cup of coffee or really good tea. Call an old friend. Sit under the stars in wonder and marvel at how small we are in the vastness of space.