WR change

[Calichief 3,016]

I know we’ve moved on, but Hopkins is far from cooked. Dude still has it.

[kkuenn 3,597]

3 hours ago, mex said:

dickcheese

And here I thought you were lactose intolerant....

[Lamardirts 2,114]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:49 AM, xen said:

To me yes juju was that big of a difference.  Not the best receiver but got on the same page as Mahomes with sight adjustments, which makes a huge difference in this offense. 

I think this is a huge detail for wr's on this team.  It's more than just knowing the playbook. It's reading the defense how Mahomes reads it in real time and making adjustments mid route.  Its an extra layer to scouting and you could potentially find  the perfect wr for this "system" but if he doesn't read what Mahomes is reading or isn't on the same page then it could be a potential failure.   

Juju definitely had a connection with Mahomes.   We are missing that at the moment.

 

 

[Holmes4six! 968]

2 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I think this is a huge detail for wr's on this team.  It's more than just knowing the playbook. It's reading the defense how Mahomes reads it in real time and making adjustments mid route.  Its an extra layer to scouting and you could potentially find  the perfect wr for this "system" but if he doesn't read what Mahomes is reading or isn't on the same page then it could be a potential failure.   

Juju definitely had a connection with Mahomes.   We are missing that at the moment.

 

 

Good point. I also think the wr are not taking their jobs seriously. Meaning focusing in on the details that you have mentioned. Understanding them and actually doing them when it is required based on what the defense is doing. 
Everyone thinks mahomes magic will get them a win. Well it won’t. Including the coaches. 
 

[Calichief 3,016]

Toney gets separation and I think he needs to be used in a traditional wr role. He does separate when he sees the field.

yes he has a rough start , but it’s time to get him back in the field 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, Calichief said:

Toney gets separation and I think he needs to be used in a traditional wr role. He does separate when he sees the field.

yes he has a rough start , but it’s time to get him back in the field 

Here's hoping the Chiefs coaching staff uses this week off to reevaluate the ways to use Toney, Moore, and Rice.  I still think there's potential to create a ball possession consistent offense with the players they have.  And please get Hardman off the punt return wagon. 

[arrowhead 1,070]

60 offensive snaps.

Moore-15

Hardman-13

Toney-7

 

I know it varies by game, but that isn't encouraging for these 3.

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, arrowhead said:

60 offensive snaps.

Moore-15

Hardman-13

Toney-7

 

I know it varies by game, but that isn't encouraging for these 3.

Even worse the targets.

[xen 1,010,220]

 

[jetlord 10,209]

12 minutes ago, xen said:

Even worse the targets.

Exactly:

Moore had 3 targets, completed 2

Rice 2   2

Hardman 3  3

Toney  1  1

That's nine targets out of thirty attempts going to those four.  I believe Watson got 5.  Don't remember about MVS.  Meanwhile, Mahomes held the ball too long and eventually had a sack/fumble that led to the first MIA TD.  Gotta fix that. 

[arrowhead 1,070]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

Exactly:

Moore had 3 targets, completed 2

Rice 2   2

Hardman 3  3

Toney  1  1

That's nine targets out of thirty attempts going to those four.  I believe Watson got 5.  Don't remember about MVS.  Meanwhile, Mahomes held the ball too long and eventually had a sack/fumble that led to the first MIA TD.  Gotta fix that. 

Rice is the only keeper in that group.

Still waiting on MH to fix the WR group. 

[mex 65,581]

16 hours ago, arrowhead said:

Rice is the only keeper in that group.

Still waiting on MH to fix the WR group. 

Nobody said he would "fix the WR group."

He was cheap, knows the playbook, and has speed. 

Something most would agree couldn't hurt our current WR impotence.

 

[artsy 1,137]

18 hours ago, jetlord said:

Exactly:

Moore had 3 targets, completed 2

Rice 2   2

Hardman 3  3

Toney  1  1

That's nine targets out of thirty attempts going to those four.  I believe Watson got 5.  Don't remember about MVS.  Meanwhile, Mahomes held the ball too long and eventually had a sack/fumble that led to the first MIA TD.  Gotta fix that. 

yup. I wonder what has happened to the shallow crossers? Everyone is running deep post, digs etc. There seems to be no one flying across the field about 5 to 6 yds from the LOS. LBs are droping back and doubling Kelce and clogging the deep to moderate middle. Safties sit on top of that. There's gotta be open field in the shallow middle. Those passes along with the RBs in the flats move the chains. You rarely ever see that and that's an Andy problem imo.

There's no question in my mind that if you run Kelce upfiled down the middle he will carry at least one LB with him and a Safety will sit on top of him. That should always leave a hole  in the zone and space underneath when the defense plays man. I would think that Toney, RIce and/or Moore could take advantage with quick slants??

Everytime Pat gets caught holding the ball the replay shows every reciever hauling ass deep down the field with 2 people standing beside Kelce. WTH Andy??

[arrowhead 1,070]

1 hour ago, mex said:

Nobody said he would "fix the WR group."

He was cheap, knows the playbook, and has speed. 

Something most would agree couldn't hurt our current WR impotence.

 

You should go back and look again. Boners were everywhere. 

Knows the playbook, but he can't get on the field. Why is that? He is still the same gadget only guy he was before he left. MH and Toney are interchangeable, which is not a good thing. Neither should be on the roster next year. 

Lots of speed, but no targets or playing time.

 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, artsy said:

yup. I wonder what has happened to the shallow crossers? Everyone is running deep post, digs etc. There seems to be no one flying across the field about 5 to 6 yds from the LOS. LBs are droping back and doubling Kelce and clogging the deep to moderate middle. Safties sit on top of that. There's gotta be open field in the shallow middle. Those passes along with the RBs in the flats move the chains. You rarely ever see that and that's an Andy problem imo.

There's no question in my mind that if you run Kelce upfiled down the middle he will carry at least one LB with him and a Safety will sit on top of him. That should always leave a hole  in the zone and space underneath when the defense plays man. I would think that Toney, RIce and/or Moore could take advantage with quick slants??

Everytime Pat gets caught holding the ball the replay shows every reciever hauling ass deep down the field with 2 people standing beside Kelce. WTH Andy??

One play where the Chiefs took advantage Sunday was the TD to McKinnon.  IIRC, Kelce cleared out the zone and McKinnon took advantage.  Is that the type of action the Chiefs need more of?  Mahomes/Reid need to adjust to what's available.  Forget the deep throws and matriculate the ball down the field.  Can't put all the blame on Rice, Toney, or Moore when they aren't being used properly.   There's a chance we will see better calls after the staff studies the first half during the bye. 

[jetlord 10,209]

19 hours ago, arrowhead said:

Rice is the only keeper in that group.

Still waiting on MH to fix the WR group. 

I was not for bringing in Hardman, but what's the risk when he costs so little and there's an open spot thanks to Ross going stupid.  

[Holmes4six! 968]

5 minutes ago, jetlord said:

One play where the Chiefs took advantage Sunday was the TD to McKinnon.  IIRC, Kelce cleared out the zone and McKinnon took advantage.  Is that the type of action the Chiefs need more of?  Mahomes/Reid need to adjust to what's available.  Forget the deep throws and matriculate the ball down the field.  Can't put all the blame on Rice, Toney, or Moore when they aren't being used properly.   There's a chance we will see better calls after the staff studies the first half during the bye. 

I think we need the spread analyst Childress back. 

[mex 65,581]

4 hours ago, arrowhead said:

You should go back and look again. Boners were everywhere. 

Knows the playbook, but he can't get on the field. Why is that? He is still the same gadget only guy he was before he left. MH and Toney are interchangeable, which is not a good thing. Neither should be on the roster next year. 

Lots of speed, but no targets or playing time.

 

We have the same exact WR roster as we had last year... with the exception of JuJu. IMO Rice is just as good, if not better than JuJu. If not, he will be very soon.

Why is it our WRs are not doing so well this season, in your opinion?

[arrowhead 1,070]

29 minutes ago, mex said:

We have the same exact WR roster as we had last year... with the exception of JuJu. IMO Rice is just as good, if not better than JuJu. If not, he will be very soon.

Why is it our WRs are not doing so well this season, in your opinion?

Maybe we're undervaluing JuJu. If Pat threw it to him, he'd catch it. 

I think the Chiefs lead the league in dropped passes.

Scramble drill? Moore? Anyone?

MH and Toney are nothing more than gadget guys. With all that twitch/speed, they should be taking the top off. DCs should have to game plan for that. MVS will have a good game and then disappear for weeks. Watson will make a tremendous catch and then drop an easy one.

I agree, Rice is gonna be the #1 guy, if he isn't already. Andy and Nagy don't seem to have complete trust in him just yet.

Kelce, Gray, Rice, Watson, Pop. Let's roll.

 

[mex 65,581]

25 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Maybe we're undervaluing JuJu. If Pat threw it to him, he'd catch it. 

I think the Chiefs lead the league in dropped passes.

Scramble drill? Moore? Anyone?

MH and Toney are nothing more than gadget guys. With all that twitch/speed, they should be taking the top off. DCs should have to game plan for that. MVS will have a good game and then disappear for weeks. Watson will make a tremendous catch and then drop an easy one.

I agree, Rice is gonna be the #1 guy, if he isn't already. Andy and Nagy don't seem to have complete trust in him just yet.

Kelce, Gray, Rice, Watson, Pop. Let's roll.

 

Agree with most of that... I was just thinking about how awful the WRs seem to be this year... then it dawned on me that it's pretty much the same guys except for JuJu. I'm not sure he was that much more of a 'go-to' guy than say, Rice this year. Something else seems off. As for the drops... this team always seems to have the drops. 

Good news is we all heard Patrick after the game... praising the defense. But he also made it a point to say "We'll get our passing game figured out." And he emphasized it. I could feel the determination in his comment.

We all know what a determined Patrick Mahomes is capable of accomplishing. 

Heh. Heard Nick Wright today saying "Imagine the top QBs in NFL history. Montana. Manning. Brady. And you can't leave out Mahomes. Now imagine them during the peak of their careers. Now imagine all of them with the benefit of having the #2 defense in the league. THAT'S PATRICK MAHOMES THIS YEAR." 

I mean, holy shit.

Gotta love Nick Wright.

[artsy 1,137]

10 minutes ago, mex said:

Agree with most of that... I was just thinking about how awful the WRs seem to be this year... then it dawned on me that it's pretty much the same guys except for JuJu. I'm not sure he was that much more of a 'go-to' guy than say, Rice this year. Something else seems off. As for the drops... this team always seems to have the drops. 

Good news is we all heard Patrick after the game... praising the defense. But he also made it a point to say "We'll get our passing game figured out." And he emphasized it. I could feel the determination in his comment.

We all know what a determined Patrick Mahomes is capable of accomplishing. 

Heh. Heard Nick Wright today saying "Imagine the top QBs in NFL history. Montana. Manning. Brady. And you can't leave out Mahomes. Now imagine them during the peak of their careers. Now imagine all of them with the benefit of having the #2 defense in the league. THAT'S PATRICK MAHOMES THIS YEAR." 

I mean, holy shit.

Gotta love Nick Wright.

Yea, i think the problems with the passing game is both Andy and PM. Andy calling bad routes and PM locking onto the first read, then dancing around till Kelce gets open. They were breaking down the game on NFL Live today, and you could plainly see that the WRs were all running deep routes A LOT and no one was scrapping the middle of the field. It has to be evident to Andy and Nagy that these guys cant win ON THEIR OWN. THey have to be schemed open!

[arrowhead 1,070]

35 minutes ago, mex said:

Agree with most of that... I was just thinking about how awful the WRs seem to be this year... then it dawned on me that it's pretty much the same guys except for JuJu. I'm not sure he was that much more of a 'go-to' guy than say, Rice this year. Something else seems off. As for the drops... this team always seems to have the drops. 

Good news is we all heard Patrick after the game... praising the defense. But he also made it a point to say "We'll get our passing game figured out." And he emphasized it. I could feel the determination in his comment.

We all know what a determined Patrick Mahomes is capable of accomplishing. 

Heh. Heard Nick Wright today saying "Imagine the top QBs in NFL history. Montana. Manning. Brady. And you can't leave out Mahomes. Now imagine them during the peak of their careers. Now imagine all of them with the benefit of having the #2 defense in the league. THAT'S PATRICK MAHOMES THIS YEAR." 

I mean, holy shit.

Gotta love Nick Wright.

I love Nick Wright.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

10 hours ago, jetlord said:

I was not for bringing in Hardman, but what's the risk when he costs so little and there's an open spot thanks to Ross going stupid.  

He didn't do terrible on O.  His punt return decision making is suspect but he converted for a few first downs iirc.  

I still think Andy is tinkering.  If we are talking about that as arm chair HC's then you know he is watching the same tape.  I often wonder if he doesn't want to make that adjustment so quickly during the season to give defenses a chance to figure it out by the playoffs.  

Time will tell but I'll give Andy some leeway until we start stacking losses.

[artsy 1,137]

9 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

He didn't do terrible on O.  His punt return decision making is suspect but he converted for a few first downs iirc.  

I still think Andy is tinkering.  If we are talking about that as arm chair HC's then you know he is watching the same tape.  I often wonder if he doesn't want to make that adjustment so quickly during the season to give defenses a chance to figure it out by the playoffs.  

Time will tell but I'll give Andy some leeway until we start stacking losses.

I do think Andy holds back during the season. Im hoping we see better offensive production the next few games. (Philly, Cinci and Buffalo)  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:31 AM, artsy said:

I do think Andy holds back during the season. Im hoping we see better offensive production the next few games. (Philly, Cinci and Buffalo)  

Especially this year with those teams waiting on the back end.