Former NFL GM thinks KC should concentrate on OT in Free Agency

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

To be fair, Veach is a victim of his own success.  He's put the Chiefs in position to never draft higher than #29 or #30 and several times #32.  He did okay with Rice, probably busted with Moore and didn't get full value from Hardman.  Drafting a starting OT is very difficult at the end of the round.  There are usually four or five that everyone wants and they go early.  Even then, a goodly portion bust.  I credit Veach for rebuilding the whole interior line in one year.  Unless the Chiefs draft higher or spend a ton of draft capital to move up, we'll see more guys like Niang, Morris, etc.  FA tackles are super expensive and the Chiefs can't afford the top ones.  $20 million for Taylor was a reach and that wasn't exactly profitable this year.  Can't fault Veach too much for not finding a solid fixture at tackle when drafting so late. 

btw, the more i look at the Jawaan contract. the more likely i think he is cut or he agrees to re-do his deal this offseason. this is from arrowhead addict

"Here's what they could do. Like getting blood drawn at the doctor, it would be uncomfortable at the start. On March 17, $20M of Jawaan Taylor's 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed, thus increasing his dead cap hits both in 2024 and 2025 in the case of a release. If they were to release him with a post-June 1 designation (prior to March 17), the dead money would drop from $34.175M to $24.725M. This would allow Taylor to re-enter free agency much earlier, making it more likely that he'll sign another lucrative contract, but would also prevent the Chiefs from swallowing an additional $20M in guarantees."

 

So basically if he is on the roster on March 17 is guaranteed to be here for 2024 and 2025, and the chiefs can't live with that.  They will be forced to cut him to save 20 million in 2025, even at the cost of taking a huge dead cap next season.

Now can the chiefs to go Taylor and agree to re-do the deal somehow, considering both parties have to understand he sucked this season... maybe. The problem is he is guaranteed 20 mil from the chiefs next season no matter what. So even if they agreed to a reasonable 2 year- 10 million dollar a year deal, that would only get him to the dollar figure he is already guaranteed for next year.

so bottom line im gonna assume Taylor is flat out cut after the year for a massive dead cap hit.

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

1 hour ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

btw, the more i look at the Jawaan contract. the more likely i think he is cut or he agrees to re-do his deal this offseason. this is from arrowhead addict

"Here's what they could do. Like getting blood drawn at the doctor, it would be uncomfortable at the start. On March 17, $20M of Jawaan Taylor's 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed, thus increasing his dead cap hits both in 2024 and 2025 in the case of a release. If they were to release him with a post-June 1 designation (prior to March 17), the dead money would drop from $34.175M to $24.725M. This would allow Taylor to re-enter free agency much earlier, making it more likely that he'll sign another lucrative contract, but would also prevent the Chiefs from swallowing an additional $20M in guarantees."

 

So basically if he is on the roster on March 17 is guaranteed to be here for 2024 and 2025, and the chiefs can't live with that.  They will be forced to cut him to save 20 million in 2025, even at the cost of taking a huge dead cap next season.

Now can the chiefs to go Taylor and agree to re-do the deal somehow, considering both parties have to understand he sucked this season... maybe. The problem is he is guaranteed 20 mil from the chiefs next season no matter what. So even if they agreed to a reasonable 2 year- 10 million dollar a year deal, that would only get him to the dollar figure he is already guaranteed for next year.

so bottom line im gonna assume Taylor is flat out cut after the year for a massive dead cap hit.

I would be SHOCKED if they did this!  He has not been as bad as everyone here seems to think.  He hasn't gotten near as many penalties recently, and seems to learning the system better.  He is also still very young.  I'd say that they will restructure his deal to where it is more palatable, and move forward with trying to find a left tackle.

[oldtimer 8,683]

3 minutes ago, Spfdchiefsfan said:

I would be SHOCKED if they did this!  He has not been as bad as everyone here seems to think.  He hasn't gotten near as many penalties recently, and seems to learning the system better.  He is also still very young.  I'd say that they will restructure his deal to where it is more palatable, and move forward with trying to find a left tackle.

[jetlord 10,207]

6 hours ago, Palangi said:

He played LT at Tennessee as a freshman and sophomore. He spent just s as much time at LT as RT. 
 

Morris has shown some good stuff in games just needs to continue to develop and have the whole offseason to focus on LT. I would be ok with taking someone in the second or third round to compete though. WR should be our first pick though. We need to add talent there big time. 

Guess we'll just have to disagree.  Taylor is two more years at best unless he makes a huge turnaround.  Morris has a long way to go.  I contend that the Chiefs can do better by getting an experienced WR and drafting a stud (and cheap) OT easier than finding a gap OT and drafting a first round WR that possibly will struggle with Reid's offense.  Will agree that it would be better to take a flyer on a top WR rather than reaching for an OT if it shakes out that way. 

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

none of this matters if Patrick does not trust his offensive line 100%. We know he has trust in Thuney, Smith and Humphrey but Donovan Smith is done, Morris needs a lot of Reps and i cannot add anything to Taylor's situation that has not been said already.

[Calichief 3,016]

Bet if I go back to all those old threads I find bitching about the tackles. People used to complain about Mitch too. No one has ever loved the oline at any point. 

[jetlord 10,207]

3 minutes ago, Calichief said:

Bet if I go back to all those old threads I find bitching about the tackles. People used to complain about Mitch too. No one has ever loved the oline at any point. 

People complained about Fisher, one poster in particular, mainly because he got expensive and he was the top pick in the draft.  I don't recall any complaints about Schwartz during his time here.  He was at or near the top of the RT players. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

People complained about Fisher, one poster in particular, mainly because he got expensive and he was the top pick in the draft.  I don't recall any complaints about Schwartz during his time here.  He was at or near the top of the RT players. 

Hell if anything we were excited he was so cheap and what a fleecing job we did getting him in the trade.

[qnet 1,150]

I remember everyone liking Schwartz, Fisher not as much. I liked Fisher but that was a tough year to have the No. 1 overall pick. What's crazy is Lane Johnson ended up being the one, and I never remember hearing his name much. It was all Fisher or Luke Joeckel.  I don't follow draft prospects like some of you, but if this draft is loaded; the Chiefs have to select the right one. That's not easy.

[bamaroyal 87]

While totally unlikely, Joe Alt would be a nice pick, but I'm a bit sentimental.😄

[jetlord 10,207]

5 minutes ago, bamaroyal said:

While totally unlikely, Joe Alt would be a nice pick, but I'm a bit sentimental.😄

Alt is a top ten pick in all probability.  Number one or two rated OT prospect.  Mims from Georgia might be within reach with a trade up depending on how many QBs and WRs go early.  He's ranked about five or so behind that huge monster from 'Bama. 

[oldtimer 8,683]

Alt is sadly all but untouchable..would be great story tho  much like Brad Buddie being drafted by the same team his Dad Ed was

[jetlord 10,207]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:47 PM, oldtimer said:

Alt is sadly all but untouchable..would be great story tho  much like Brad Buddie being drafted by the same team his Dad Ed was

Great story, but Brad was no Ed.  Never understood what his problem was.  

[oldtimer 8,683]

10 hours ago, jetlord said:

Great story, but Brad was no Ed.  Never understood what his problem was.  

JMO but I think much of it was as is with  others because he got over in HS and College by being soo much bigger than everybody else he never had to learn technique and I remember as I know you do to the 1980 KC Chiefs  where nothing to brag about  so that probably hurt

[Holmes4six! 968]

On 1/10/2024 at 6:00 AM, KC Warpaint said:

none of this matters if Patrick does not trust his offensive line 100%. We know he has trust in Thuney, Smith and Humphrey but Donovan Smith is done, Morris needs a lot of Reps and i cannot add anything to Taylor's situation that has not been said already.

I agree. Pat has no trust in these two tackles. Something has to happen and I am betting there will be change. I don’t see Veach trotting out the same tackles next year. 

[jetlord 10,207]

8 minutes ago, Holmes4six! said:

I agree. Pat has no trust in these two tackles. Something has to happen and I am betting there will be change. I don’t see Veach trotting out the same tackles next year. 

We'll see Taylor.  Too much invested in him and if he cleans up his penalties, he's not that bad.  LT is the problem and if Veach doesn't find a FA, it will be a top priority in the draft. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

16 hours ago, jetlord said:

We'll see Taylor.  Too much invested in him and if he cleans up his penalties, he's not that bad.  LT is the problem and if Veach doesn't find a FA, it will be a top priority in the draft. 

Jet, after yesterday, i hope Veach finds a trade partner or something for Taylor. 
We need to replace him is my thoughts. Good tackles don’t grow on trees but I hope Veach can make something work. 

[jetlord 10,207]

I've got mixed feelings about Taylor.  It's very frustrating to see all the penalties and some are game changing.  But Taylor pass blocks pretty well for the most part.  He's an upgrade over Wiley but not $20 million worth.  Also, he got tagged in the first game and the refs give him special attention.  What's let pass on other players becomes holding for Taylor.  The block in the back last night was iffy.  Taylor was pushed from behind but technically, it was a bad block.  I'm guessing Schwartz would have gotten away with it.  Bottom line is that if Taylor gets his head together this off season, he can be okay at RT.  Not worth his contract, but that's money spent.

[jetlord 10,207]

One last point about the tackles last night.  Miami sent six pass rushers 14 times and five on 51%+ of the pass snaps.  Mahomes was sacked exactly zero times.  Credit Pat for a lot of the success, but really bad tackle play wouldn't have kept him clean all game.  

[Holmes4six! 968]

Watching this rams game, man that Puka is something else. Tough as nails as well. Notbthe fastest but sure does know how to get open and sure handed. 
Getting someone like that paired with rice would be real nice. 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

7 hours ago, jetlord said:

I've got mixed feelings about Taylor.  It's very frustrating to see all the penalties and some are game changing.  But Taylor pass blocks pretty well for the most part.  He's an upgrade over Wiley but not $20 million worth.  Also, he got tagged in the first game and the refs give him special attention.  What's let pass on other players becomes holding for Taylor.  The block in the back last night was iffy.  Taylor was pushed from behind but technically, it was a bad block.  I'm guessing Schwartz would have gotten away with it.  Bottom line is that if Taylor gets his head together this off season, he can be okay at RT.  Not worth his contract, but that's money spent.

Thats the thing though, its not “money spent”

if you cut this offseason is saves clark hunt 20 million in cash in 2025 and 2026, as well as cap space in those seasons.

as a GM if clark comes to you and says “im not paying this guy 40 million more than i have to” you are dang near obligated to cut him.

its not as simple as well we gave him a contract and thats that

[xen 1,010,218]

45 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Thats the thing though, its not “money spent”

if you cut this offseason is saves clark hunt 20 million in cash in 2025 and 2026, as well as cap space in those seasons.

as a GM if clark comes to you and says “im not paying this guy 40 million more than i have to” you are dang near obligated to cut him.

its not as simple as well we gave him a contract and thats that

And comes with 34m dead cap plus now you need to find 2 tackles.  Doubt they do that.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

12 hours ago, xen said:

And comes with 34m dead cap plus now you need to find 2 tackles.  Doubt they do that.

Devils Advocate

Scenerio 1: Taylor on roster 24 mil dollar hit, and you are still looking to upgrade the RT position. AND you lock yourself into him for 2025 as well. Guaranteeing 2 more seasons of a player we know can’t do the job.

 

Scenerio 2: Cut Taylor, 34 mil cap hit, and you give a rookie or wanya morris the job who might be a good player. Additionally you aren’t spending 20 mil in 2025 on taylor

Bottom line is 10 million in cap space next season worth flexibility in 2025 and the hope that we can find an actually good RT ?

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

20 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Devils Advocate

Scenerio 1: Taylor on roster 24 mil dollar hit, and you are still looking to upgrade the RT position. AND you lock yourself into him for 2025 as well. Guaranteeing 2 more seasons of a player we know can’t do the job.

 

Scenerio 2: Cut Taylor, 34 mil cap hit, and you give a rookie or wanya morris the job who might be a good player. Additionally you aren’t spending 20 mil in 2025 on taylor

Bottom line is 10 million in cap space next season worth flexibility in 2025 and the hope that we can find an actually good RT ?

 

Taylor will do better. The pass protection is key and they have done thst for the most part. Taylor will be here because of the money involved. 

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

Taylors play isn't the problem if you ask me, it's the stupid penalties, but let's be honest.  Players get penalties ALL the time.  Remember how many stupid ones Travis used to get.  The problem is when his penalties occur, and I am not 100% it's not reputation that is getting them called on him at the inopportune time.  I honestly think the Refs are looking for a way to stop KC.  Some of it is focus though too.