Sales Tax Extension Pulse.....

[West 6,713]

I read Clark's request to the tax payers on the Chiefs' Website. I was curious on what you guys think about this and will the measure carry?

 

I am not a local so my opinion is not meaningful.

[TAMBAAAA 21]

I'm local but won't get to vote.  (Next county over.)

I think if it were just the Chiefs, or just continuing on as before, it would easily pass. The Royals put it at some risk with their downtown stadium plan and the various consequences of that. 

But I still think it passes, with the Royals getting what they want on the Chiefs coattails. 

[jetlord 10,207]

We do get to vote.  Being away all winter means we didn't get all the propaganda but Tamba has a point.  Among our friends, the baseball stadium being built downtown is very unpopular.  Lots of small businesses being displaced, expensive, no parking and my understanding is that what is planned will be a long walk away and, of course, expensive. and more traffic issues.  The present location suits most people, but the area around it was never developed.  The KC powers that be have long wanted a downtown location.  I remember a long discussion with Sly about 15 years ago and he was already pushing that direction.  The bad part is that the Royals are joined at the hip with the Chiefs.  As I understand it, any public funding that benefits one franchise has to be matched to the other.  So the Chiefs get a windfall if the Royals stadium is financed by the county.  Clark Hunt and Mark Donovan have played the usual game of saying a "yes" vote will guarantee the Chiefs stay where they are.  My opinion is that they're not going anywhere no matter the vote but that's the usual threat in these things.  Will it pass?  Probably, although the wording on the ballot is very limited and specifies no location for building the new Royals stadium.

[timmy_6262 77]

Overall its very simple.  A "no" vote opens the door to every possibility...leaving Jackson County, leaving MO, or leaving the KC area altogether.  A "yes" closes that door.  Will there be another chance on another vote...maybe, nobody knows.  One thing is for certain...there are many cities that would welcome either franchise with arms and wallets wide open.

[West 6,713]

Thanks for the information and thoughts.  Much appreciated from a longtime Chiefs fan and out of towner.

 

 

[jetlord 10,207]

17 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

Overall its very simple.  A "no" vote opens the door to every possibility...leaving Jackson County, leaving MO, or leaving the KC area altogether.  A "yes" closes that door.  Will there be another chance on another vote...maybe, nobody knows.  One thing is for certain...there are many cities that would welcome either franchise with arms and wallets wide open.

That's always the threat whenever the owner wants the taxpayers to pony up a billion or two for his business.  Would the Chiefs ever leave KC?  No way.  They have a connection here with the fan base and area in general that most teams would kill for.  And the Jackson County voters would extend the tax to make Arrowhead modern.  The issue is the Royals building a stadium downtown which is lumped into the same proposition.  There's lots of opposition to having the stadium downtown where most fan seldom go, will be congested, and no parking.  My prediction, purely guesswork, is that after a few visits to the new stadium, Royals fans will stay away in droves except in those few years when they are competitive.  There's no public transportation so how often will the folks in Overland Park fight their way out of downtown through the after game congestion?  And as I posted above, the ballot doesn't even guarantee where a stadium might be built although the general consensus is a specific downtown location.  Guess I just tired of billionaire owners threatening taxpayers with leaving and crooked politicians profiting from construction contracts at my expense.  BTW:  What's an activation zone?  

[oldtimer 8,683]

48 minutes ago, timmy_6262 said:

Overall its very simple.  A "no" vote opens the door to every possibility...leaving Jackson County, leaving MO, or leaving the KC area altogether.  A "yes" closes that door.  Will there be another chance on another vote...maybe, nobody knows.  One thing is for certain...there are many cities that would welcome either franchise with arms and wallets wide open.

bless your heart. Chiefs are not going anywhere... Royals? meh not watched  MLB game since 95

[jetlord 10,207]

1 hour ago, timmy_6262 said:

Overall its very simple.  A "no" vote opens the door to every possibility...leaving Jackson County, leaving MO, or leaving the KC area altogether.  A "yes" closes that door.  Will there be another chance on another vote...maybe, nobody knows.  One thing is for certain...there are many cities that would welcome either franchise with arms and wallets wide open.

Just curious.  What would be so bad about the Chiefs moving to Johnson County, Ks.?  I like them where they are since we're on the same side on the area, but going to JoCo or even the Legends area wouldn't be the end of the world or Chiefs football.  Actually, the chances of them leaving Arrowhead are slim to none.  Just keep upgrading as needed.  One problem is that every upgrade means more luxury seats and some long time ticket holders getting displaced.  We had friends that lost their seats of twenty years in the last upgrade and the Chiefs treated them very poorly.  Will the same thing happen with the end zone seating modifications?  

[oldtimer 8,683]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Just curious.  What would be so bad about the Chiefs moving to Johnson County, Ks.?  I like them where they are since we're on the same side on the area, but going to JoCo or even the Legends area wouldn't be the end of the world or Chiefs football.  Actually, the chances of them leaving Arrowhead are slim to none.  Just keep upgrading as needed.  One problem is that every upgrade means more luxury seats and some long time ticket holders getting displaced.  We had friends that lost their seats of twenty years in the last upgrade and the Chiefs treated them very poorly.  Will the same thing happen with the end zone seating modifications?  

Is not "the Legends"/ Nascar track etc in Wyandotte ctny?

during the last refurbish we had our seats taken over by the new indoor area, we ended up with up graded seats but of course we had been season ticket holders since Municipal so maybe that made the difference

[jetlord 10,207]

45 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Is not "the Legends"/ Nascar track etc in Wyandotte ctny?

during the last refurbish we had our seats taken over by the new indoor area, we ended up with up graded seats but of course we had been season ticket holders since Municipal so maybe that made the difference

Yes.  The Legends has been mentioned as well as some Johnson County place.  We've been gone for the winter so don't have all the chatter about things.  You were lucky.  My friends got so disgusted that they refused to renew their tickets permanently.  

[moons314 2,463]

10 hours ago, jetlord said:

Just curious.  What would be so bad about the Chiefs moving to Johnson County, Ks.?  I like them where they are since we're on the same side on the area, but going to JoCo or even the Legends area wouldn't be the end of the world or Chiefs football.  Actually, the chances of them leaving Arrowhead are slim to none.  Just keep upgrading as needed.  One problem is that every upgrade means more luxury seats and some long time ticket holders getting displaced.  We had friends that lost their seats of twenty years in the last upgrade and the Chiefs treated them very poorly.  Will the same thing happen with the end zone seating modifications?  

Since I’m in Kansas, joco would be a much shorter drive for me, as would Wyandotte. That said, as much as I’d love them to come to this side, as a season ticket holder, such a move would price me out.  Take a peek at what Buffalo has going on with seat licensing. It’s a big bill before the price of the tickets.  That to me is the scariest thought of the chiefs moving.  They won’t leave the metro but a new stadium would royally fuck a lot of season ticket holders. 

[timmy_6262 77]

15 hours ago, jetlord said:

Just curious.  What would be so bad about the Chiefs moving to Johnson County, Ks.?  I like them where they are since we're on the same side on the area, but going to JoCo or even the Legends area wouldn't be the end of the world or Chiefs football.  Actually, the chances of them leaving Arrowhead are slim to none.  Just keep upgrading as needed.  One problem is that every upgrade means more luxury seats and some long time ticket holders getting displaced.  We had friends that lost their seats of twenty years in the last upgrade and the Chiefs treated them very poorly.  Will the same thing happen with the end zone seating modifications?  

I live in Topeka so I don't care where they move to as long as its still in the KC metro, if they go that route obviously. 

[timmy_6262 77]

16 hours ago, oldtimer said:

bless your heart. Chiefs are not going anywhere... Royals? meh not watched  MLB game since 95

I would guess that the residents of St. Louis (twice), San Diego, Baltimore, Cleveland, LA (twice), Oakland, and Houston thought the exact same thing.  

[jetlord 10,207]

10 hours ago, moons314 said:

Since I’m in Kansas, joco would be a much shorter drive for me, as would Wyandotte. That said, as much as I’d love them to come to this side, as a season ticket holder, such a move would price me out.  Take a peek at what Buffalo has going on with seat licensing. It’s a big bill before the price of the tickets.  That to me is the scariest thought of the chiefs moving.  They won’t leave the metro but a new stadium would royally fuck a lot of season ticket holders. 

You're making my point, except what you posted applies to the Royals.  That's the rub.  The Chiefs upgrades are tied to the vote to move the Royals downtown.  Aside from the city "leaders", who thinks having them move to a congested area with no parking and higher crime rates is a good deal?  Keep the Chiefs happy?  Yes.  Keep the Royals happy?  Yes.  Build a new baseball stadium downtown?  No.  Just my take.  BTW:  There was zero talk about the Chiefs moving until the Royals stadium issue came up.  

[moons314 2,463]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

You're making my point, except what you posted applies to the Royals.  That's the rub.  The Chiefs upgrades are tied to the vote to move the Royals downtown.  Aside from the city "leaders", who thinks having them move to a congested area with no parking and higher crime rates is a good deal?  Keep the Chiefs happy?  Yes.  Keep the Royals happy?  Yes.  Build a new baseball stadium downtown?  No.  Just my take.  BTW:  There was zero talk about the Chiefs moving until the Royals stadium issue came up.  

The downtown stadium is a joke. The Midwest doesn’t have public transportation, and even if we did, we’re modwesterners, we’re not using it, we’re driving ourselves to the game. I went to opening day at the K, and I’ll go to more games, but once they move downtown, I’ll go once to see it and that’s it.  Lack of parking and traffic will be a nightmare.  Even tho I’m also a royals fan, in the grand scheme of things, I don’t much give a shit about them and baseball in general.  Keeping the chiefs at arrowhead is the only thing I care about, and that’s for selfish reasons.  Being on the same ballot as the chiefs is the only reason this has a chance to pass.  If the royals were the lone team on the ballot, I’d wager the vote would be 80/20 in favor of no. We’re all here hoping the chiefs drag the shitty royals across the finish line bc we know that movement by the chiefs prices most of us out of games.  

[jetlord 10,207]

8 minutes ago, moons314 said:

   Being on the same ballot as the chiefs is the only reason this has a chance to pass.  

 Perfect summary right there.  Take an unpopular issue and load on a popular team and add in some empty threats and hope the sheep buy it. 

[oldtimer 8,683]

17 minutes ago, moons314 said:

The downtown stadium is a joke. The Midwest doesn’t have public transportation, and even if we did, we’re modwesterners, we’re not using it, we’re driving ourselves to the game. I went to opening day at the K, and I’ll go to more games, but once they move downtown, I’ll go once to see it and that’s it.  Lack of parking and traffic will be a nightmare.  Even tho I’m also a royals fan, in the grand scheme of things, I don’t much give a shit about them and baseball in general.  Keeping the chiefs at arrowhead is the only thing I care about, and that’s for selfish reasons.  Being on the same ballot as the chiefs is the only reason this has a chance to pass.  If the royals were the lone team on the ballot, I’d wager the vote would be 80/20 in favor of no. We’re all here hoping the chiefs drag the shitty royals across the finish line bc we know that movement by the chiefs prices most of us out of games.  

probably before your time but an old member here Wilkie and my Dad & I unbeknownst to us took the same Metros to Arrowhead Stadium,. There where pick up and drop off spots through out the city,  our's was Ward Parkway Shopping center. Those busses where PACKED. I maybe wrong but that all stopped during Carl Peterson when  Parking Revenue became part of the equation.  I am pretty sure if that option was still available it'd be a popular thing  especially at these prices. Your assumption has no factual basis IMO

[kkuenn 3,597]

21 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

probably before your time but an old member here Wilkie and my Dad & I unbeknownst to us took the same Metros to Arrowhead Stadium,. There where pick up and drop off spots through out the city,  our's was Ward Parkway Shopping center. Those busses where PACKED. I maybe wrong but that all stopped during Carl Peterson when  Parking Revenue became part of the equation.  I am pretty sure if that option was still available it'd be a popular thing  especially at these prices. Your assumption has no factual basis IMO

Think of the revenue if they had a rail service still and charged 10 dollars per rider. They could make up the loss revenue of vehicle parking with 3 riders per car easily. Then those that still drive would still pay etc.  Having a car full of fans would be cheaper driving there. Being 2 ticket holders and not wanting to deal with traffic would pay 20 bucks. This would mean more would pack into a car and tail gating still would be had. There is always money to be had.

[oldtimer 8,683]

seems there are people being turned away from the Poles for wearing Chiefs or Royals  swag😆

[Thegoatee 1,780]

I don’t live anywhere near KC, but I hate going to urban places with zero parking. Unless you live in the urban place near the stadium, it isn’t convenient.

[jetlord 10,207]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

seems there are people being turned away from the Poles for wearing Chiefs or Royals  swag😆

Link?  We voted in Lee's Summit and one guy there was wearing Chiefs insignia.  A voter, not a poll worker.  

[moons314 2,463]

6 hours ago, oldtimer said:

probably before your time but an old member here Wilkie and my Dad & I unbeknownst to us took the same Metros to Arrowhead Stadium,. There where pick up and drop off spots through out the city,  our's was Ward Parkway Shopping center. Those busses where PACKED. I maybe wrong but that all stopped during Carl Peterson when  Parking Revenue became part of the equation.  I am pretty sure if that option was still available it'd be a popular thing  especially at these prices. Your assumption has no factual basis IMO

So your position is that people from Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa would drive to kc, then hop on public transit?  I don’t see it.  Now if you live within the city, then yeah some would do it, but it would never hit the transit scale of major urban areas on the coasts.  

[jetlord 10,207]

FAILED!  Big time.  The idea of a downtown Royals stadium was a non-starter from the beginning and even the people within the city limits voted "no".  Just my speculation, but get ready for another vote next year with a little more reasonableness in it.  My personal preference would be for stadium modifications laid out in a simple manner that the voters could see and decide on.  Folks just don't trust the politicians, especially the ones in KC.  

[moons314 2,463]

5 minutes ago, jetlord said:

FAILED!  Big time.  The idea of a downtown Royals stadium was a non-starter from the beginning and even the people within the city limits voted "no".  Just my speculation, but get ready for another vote next year with a little more reasonableness in it.  My personal preference would be for stadium modifications laid out in a simple manner that the voters could see and decide on.  Folks just don't trust the politicians, especially the ones in KC.  

Personally, if I were either franchise I’d tell Jackson county to fuck off. Yes, the royals part was a fiasco, but how it applies to the chiefs is the bigger issue. Kansas governor is going to court the chiefs hard, and it’s us working class fans that will get screwed in the end. It wasn’t even a new tax, it was just extending the existing one that everyone who spends any money in Jackson county pays, not just the residents. I think a lot of people voted no bc they think they’ll come back with a new plan and vote again.  I fear that won’t happen, and honestly if I were the one calling the shots it wouldn’t happen 

[jetlord 10,207]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

Personally, if I were either franchise I’d tell Jackson county to fuck off. Yes, the royals part was a fiasco, but how it applies to the chiefs is the bigger issue. Kansas governor is going to court the chiefs hard, and it’s us working class fans that will get screwed in the end. It wasn’t even a new tax, it was just extending the existing one that everyone who spends any money in Jackson county pays, not just the residents. I think a lot of people voted no bc they think they’ll come back with a new plan and vote again.  I fear that won’t happen, and honestly if I were the one calling the shots it wouldn’t happen 

Very simple solution.  Just come back next year with a proposal that leaves the Royals right where they are.  Upgrade the stadia to today's standards for less than half the cost.  As for the tax extension, people are sick of hearing that something can be done "with no tax increase".  Stop taking voters for fools.  They know the money is coming out of their pockets one way or the other.  One thing I would bet OT's farm on is that every time they ask the voters to build a stadium downtown, it will fail, at least in my lifetime.