azchief21 5,278 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Again, I was pissed with that drive. That drive was not part of the strategy. At least, that fourth-down was not part of the strategy. Leading right up to the Kelce fumble, that was the strategy. Without that fumble, we might've won that game - with that strategy. Without the offensive pass interference call we might've won with that strategy. The problem was that last drive as I said many times. Also, leaving too small margin of error. Again, I was pissed with that drive. That drive was not part of the strategy. At least, that fourth-down was not part of the strategy. Leading right up to the Kelce fumble, that was the strategy. Without that fumble, we might've won that game - with that strategy. Without the offensive pass interference call we might've won with that strategy. The problem was that last drive as I said many times. Also, leaving too small margin of error. The PI call and the fumble are part of the game. Bottom line, Smith needed to take the team down for at least a FG and he failed miserably. If he would have taken them down for the win, he would have been a hero, awesome, blah blah and the PI and fumble would have been minimized. But since he soiled his shorts, instead of the calling him a goat instead of a hero, we revert back to bad calls. Can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcchief4lif 910 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Out of all the the close games and last minute drives we have had the last 2 years, and there have been quite a few. I can only think of one he was able to help pull out. That was San Diego game this year and that ended up on the kickers foot at 47 yards. So essentially he has had 0 game winning TD drives since playing for KC. I sure the hell don't feel good when it comes down to him and the last drive. Please correct me if I am wrong about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The PI call and the fumble are part of the game. Bottom line, Smith needed to take the team down for at least a FG and he failed miserably. If he would have taken them down for the win, he would have been a hero, awesome, blah blah and the PI and fumble would have been minimized. But since he soiled his shorts, instead of the calling him a goat instead of a hero, we revert back to bad calls. Can't have it both ways. I had problems with that play. Why was it called? If all they needed to do was set up for a field goal, run a draw up the middle. The problem goes back to one thing. Their OL. They couldn't run a draw or set up for a pass. Their OL was horrible on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The PI call and the fumble are part of the game. Bottom line, Smith needed to take the team down for at least a FG and he failed miserably. If he would have taken them down for the win, he would have been a hero, awesome, blah blah and the PI and fumble would have been minimized. But since he soiled his shorts, instead of the calling him a goat instead of a hero, we revert back to bad calls. Can't have it both ways. You are still talking about the last drive, in which we agree. You are still talking about Smith's play on that drive, in which we agree. I'm talking about Smith as a whole for that game or this season and the strategy as a whole, not just the last drive. The strategy works if we don't fumble the ball (nothing to do with the QB) or if the call is not made. I don't care if the call is correct, I'm upset with the fact it seemed they waited to see the result. Either way, call the call correct, that wasn't a QB problem. That wasn't a strategy problem. That's what I am talking about. As far as me making him out as a hero if he had won, feel free to correct me if I ever do that when the defense won it or put us in position. I gave credit to the D for the SD game when we did score the winning TD and Buffalo when Smith ran it in. When one makes him out to be the goat, I'd correct them because Smith didn't fumble the ball or not block. I do give Smith and OLine blame for the INT (mostly Smith and Reid). We're talking about two different things, the bulk of what you said I agreed with regarding the last possession. I think there's miscommunication or assumptions made on the rest, of which I am not saying. I'm not saying that the last drive wasn't terrible because of the PI call or a fumble. Those don't excuse anything from the last drive. I'm not saying that Smith handled that last possession well because we would have won without the fumble. I'm saying the strategy was working until those things happened. Once those things happened, Smith and Reid didn't adjust. I give blame on them for that, the last drive was terrible - not the entire strategy, nor the QB, nor the coach - THAT drive was the worst. The rest have pros and cons and it leaves too little room for error, which is my criticism (cons) of the strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Smith "throws the ball up" to Dwayne Bowe in a game where the Chiefs scored 44 points, and Bowe doesn't get his feet in bounds. Later on, "He doesn't throw the ball up." It says a lot about your receiver corps when David Tyree is able to go up for a prayer ball but none of your guys can. Sorry, but when the Giants hold the Patriots to 14 points and 17 points while they only score 37 total points on offense, I just can't call that a quarterback winning games for his team. If you hadn't noticed, no one likes Eli Manning right now. He's a fraud. He's the guy that wouldn't play for the team that drafted him. He's the Lesser Manning, and it's not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcxiv 35 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Again, I was pissed with that drive. That drive was not part of the strategy. At least, that fourth-down was not part of the strategy. Leading right up to the Kelce fumble, that was the strategy. Without that fumble, we might've won that game - with that strategy. Without the offensive pass interference call we might've won with that strategy. The problem was that last drive as I said many times. Also, leaving too small margin of error. all they needed was 3 damned point. He just needed to get to the 35ish yardline. Andy needs to call plays where there is no damned check down receive. He's either going to throw it 15-20 yards downfield or he's going to get sacked. DONT GIVE Him the check down. Reid needs to take that check down away at times. Force that bitch to throw the ball down field lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcxiv 35 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Smith "throws the ball up" to Dwayne Bowe in a game where the Chiefs scored 44 points, and Bowe doesn't get his feet in bounds. Later on, "He doesn't throw the ball up." It says a lot about your receiver corps when David Tyree is able to go up for a prayer ball but none of your guys can. Sorry, but when the Giants hold the Patriots to 14 points and 17 points while they only score 37 total points on offense, I just can't call that a quarterback winning games for his team. If you hadn't noticed, no one likes Eli Manning right now. He's a fraud. He's the guy that wouldn't play for the team that drafted him. He's the Lesser Manning, and it's not close. i'd take a QB like ELi on my team any day of the year if he had won 2 superbowls for my team. I dont even know what it feels like to win a damned play off game. The last time they won in 93, i was at my uncles funeral. I couldnt even enjoy the damned win. Alex sucks plain and simple. He's never in his entire career had a 1000 yard receiver. The only time that happened was in 2012 when he got hurt and Kaepernack played half the season. Alex could have Rice and Moss in their primes on this team and they wouldnt get 1000 yards and would have had one of the worst seasons of their career. he just isnt a qb that throws the ball more then 7 yards. The only way he does that is usually drag routes to the tight end! In his 10 year career he has thrown the ball 10 yards or less 78 percent of the time, i think that was the statistic i seen during one of the recent games. Hell, Bowe had 1000 yards receiving with Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen and Matt Cassel. Then Alex comes in and all of a sudden, he sucks? Naw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 i'd take a QB like ELi on my team any day of the year if he had won 2 superbowls for my team. I dont even know what it feels like to win a damned play off game. The last time they won in 93, i was at my uncles funeral. I couldnt even enjoy the damned win. Alex sucks plain and simple. He's never in his entire career had a 1000 yard receiver. The only time that happened was in 2012 when he got hurt and Kaepernack played half the season. Alex could have Rice and Moss in their primes on this team and they wouldnt get 1000 yards and would have had one of the worst seasons of their career. he just isnt a qb that throws the ball more then 7 yards. The only way he does that is usually drag routes to the tight end! In his 10 year career he has thrown the ball 10 yards or less 78 percent of the time, i think that was the statistic i seen during one of the recent games. Hell, Bowe had 1000 yards receiving with Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen and Matt Cassel. Then Alex comes in and all of a sudden, he sucks? Naw. The number was 72% and average is 60-65% of the time. Passes beyond 10 yards are not as much as some feel. http://grantland.com/remote-login.php?login=375e33a7eee438d1fab503425ab9080b&id=60203239&u=86347a4184637df160a553d58cc7d22a&h= Cassel forced passes, which was good for the WR but not for the QB or anyone else. Picks included, not worth the 200 more yards Bowe would get. Andy spreads the ball to all pass catchers, here and in Philly. No one says that Charles is better due to Smith even though his TD run and pass went up significantly. But Bowe is worse because of Smith? No, it's the system and oline requiring quick short attempts. Some is Smith's lack of velocity on his throws, but it's not sucking. Those Charles TDs in previous systems were taken away by attempts, good and bad, to Bowe. Our offense was scoring before Oakland. Doesn't matter to who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcxiv 35 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The number was 72% and average is 60-65% of the time. Passes beyond 10 yards are not as much as some feel. http://grantland.com/remote-login.php?login=375e33a7eee438d1fab503425ab9080b&id=60203239&u=86347a4184637df160a553d58cc7d22a&h= Cassel forced passes, which was good for the WR but not for the QB or anyone else. Picks included, not worth the 200 more yards Bowe would get. Andy spreads the ball to all pass catchers, here and in Philly. No one says that Charles is better due to Smith even though his TD run and pass went up significantly. But Bowe is worse because of Smith? No, it's the system and oline requiring quick short attempts. Some is Smith's lack of velocity on his throws, but it's not sucking. Those Charles TDs in previous systems were taken away by attempts, good and bad, to Bowe. Our offense was scoring before Oakland. Doesn't matter to who. Even when Andy was in Philly, they still have 1000 yard receivers. Chiefs arent even getting freaking close right now. Shitty QB is shitty QB, no matter what you do around him. He's just terrible. This is nothing new though. IT was the same exact thing in San Fran. You can say ooh he had this many coordinators, he couldnt settle down. Or was it, that the coordinators figured out they had nothing to work with. At some point with a qb, its not the coordinators, its not the head coaches. Its the damned player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Even when Andy was in Philly, they still have 1000 yard receivers. Chiefs arent even getting freaking close right now. Shitty QB is shitty QB, no matter what you do around him. He's just terrible. This is nothing new though. IT was the same exact thing in San Fran. You can say ooh he had this many coordinators, he couldnt settle down. Or was it, that the coordinators figured out they had nothing to work with. At some point with a qb, its not the coordinators, its not the head coaches. Its the damned player. They also had a better offensive lline and better receivers in Philadelphia. Calling him a shitty quarterback doesn't make him one. I get that you don't like him and don't think that he's a good quarterback. We have different opinions, except when it comes to last possession. I have seen better from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcxiv 35 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 They also had a better offensive lline and better receivers in Philadelphia. Calling him a shitty quarterback doesn't make him one. I get that you don't like him and don't think that he's a good quarterback. We have different opinions, except when it comes to last possession. I have seen better from him. When have you seen better? I have seen him be ok at best. He doesnt hardly ever throw passed 7 yards. Even media outlets are starting to pick up on it and bash Reid and Alex for his checkdowns. There is a good write up on Arrowhead Pride about Alex and him completely missing WR's who would easily have scored had Alex just let the ball go. I think they need to remove them damn check downs about 50 percent of the time. Make Alex throw the ball downfield or run with it. I dont know how old you are, but this is classic Chiefs football. Just ok enough to keep the fans in the state of mind of thinking they have a chance. 45 years later, its not happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 When have you seen better? I have seen him be ok at best. He doesnt hardly ever throw passed 7 yards. Even media outlets are starting to pick up on it and bash Reid and Alex for his checkdowns. There is a good write up on Arrowhead Pride about Alex and him completely missing WR's who would easily have scored had Alex just let the ball go. I think they need to remove them damn check downs about 50 percent of the time. Make Alex throw the ball downfield or run with it. I dont know how old you are, but this is classic Chiefs football. Just ok enough to keep the fans in the state of mind of thinking they have a chance. 45 years later, its not happened yet. In SF, there were 8 years (5-6 years of of playing). He wasn't checking down as much before 2010. Before 2009, he had a lot more INTs, some while he was playing with a third degree shoulder injury. But he was attempting further down the field. He was pressing and after his shoulder injury, he had less velocity on his ball, which limits what you can do. Give him a better oline and he'll get deeper passes, though I wouldn't expect checkdowns to leave or him to become a gunslinger. Right or wrong, he distrusts his oline, which makes him move through his progressions faster. Too fast, but it isn't ability issues. A majority of all quarterback passes are check downs. Yes, he has more, but it's not like everyone else is doing the majority deeper. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/ And I really don't care what media outlets say. They are not in the building. They don't know the reads, they don't know or necessarily have played in the league. Even if they have played, they don't know. We all have opinions. That's all they are. People are fascinated with bigger plays anyway, I don't expect media to think any different. Winning is all that matters and he had been winning. He needs to adjust. I have said that many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's everybody not them like the article says. WRs and QBs have a mutual effect on each other. Right now, both are negative towards the other's production: http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city/story/it-s-not-him-it-s-them-alex-smith-needs-help-and-his-wideouts-aren-t-giving-it-121014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 He really has no protection. Its as simple as that. In spite of it, he is hard as nails and has taken an absolute beating. He needs some accolades for his toughness and intelligence. Who knows? If he had receivers that could get separation, maybe he could even throw downfield to them. The worst thing that can be done is to scapegoat him right now. BTW. They have not fixed at thing since the last Raiders game. I can't see how they can win, with Murray back, unless they have learned now to tackle and fill gaps in the last two weeks, which I doubt. 7-9 or 8-8. No playoffs, which is for the best. We would merely be one and out and humiliated in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 He really has no protection. Its as simple as that. In spite of it, he is hard as nails and has taken an absolute beating. He needs some accolades for his toughness and intelligence. Who knows? If he had receivers that could get separation, maybe he could even throw downfield to them. The worst thing that can be done is to scapegoat him right now. BTW. They have not fixed at thing since the last Raiders game. I can't see how they can win, with Murray back, unless they have learned now to tackle and fill gaps in the last two weeks, which I doubt. 7-9 or 8-8. No playoffs, which is for the best. We would merely be one and out and humiliated in the process. There is no mystery that when Smith was in SF that Vernon Davis was THE MAN. Crabtree's # were disgusting, throw in Kapernick and the opposite becomes true Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 There is no mystery that when Smith was in SF that Vernon Davis was THE MAN. Crabtree's # were disgusting, throw in Kapernick and the opposite becomes true Yep Kaepernick leaned on Crabtree as a security blanket and everyone else's numbers went down. Un-spreading out the ball is not a good thing. When defenses took away Crabtree, Kaepernick didn't do as well. Adequately spread the ball, maybe Crabtree doesn't get the 1,000 yards, but defense could not take a spreading out the ball attack away from him. He still could have done well because of the strong arm and velocity. But he was too inexperienced and forcing to get anyone else numbers when the defense keyed on Crabtree. This is why he failed on the last play in the Super Bowl. He didn't see the field or spread the ball enough to get to Walker on the last drive. It was wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 There is no mystery that when Smith was in SF that Vernon Davis was THE MAN. Crabtree's # were disgusting, throw in Kapernick and the opposite becomes true It's important to acknowledge the kind of routes that Crabtree got his big numbers from in 2012. A lot of them were comebacks and crosses underneath the safety, and that was the product of defensive schemes that were still searching for the solution to containing Kaepernick while stopping the run, leaving gaping holes between the safeties and the defensive line. Too many people make the assumption that the benching of Smith suddenly made underutilized receivers like Crabtree viable. Only the stats suggested that Kaepernick made Crabtree more valuable in 2012, but the tape never showed that. The stats don't any longer, either. With the 49ers' offense fully installed to the extent Kaepernick can effectively execute it, Crabtree has become an afterthought, as have pretty much every 49ers receiver. No one has been remarkable. Crabtree has accumulated 633 yards and 4 TD's on 60 receptions off of 100 targets. For the 24 NFL receivers that have been targeted 100 or more times this year, Crabtree ranked 22nd in yards per catch, 13th in receptions per target, 16th in touchdowns per target, and 21st in yards per target. These numbers commend neither Kaepernick nor Crabtree, and suggest that Crabtree has regressed to the mean. In other words, he is exactly the receiver he seemed to be when Smith was throwing to him: Ordinary. The sad thing here is that when Crabtree was putting up these numbers with Smith, there were no receivers of Boldin's or Johnson's caliber to draw coverage away (Smith did have something like Lloyd across from Crabtree for eight-and-a-quarter games in 2012 when Randy Moss played in the 49ers' offense). Crabtree should be more effective in today's scheme, not less. But again, we're seeing just how weak the 49ers' talent was when Smith played in San Francisco, and how they utterly shot themselves in the foot by letting Smith go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'll take your guys word for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 quitter.........................LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It really is protection and some really poor receivers. Next year this issues will likely be resolved. Smith will be a very good QB just not Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It really is protection and some really poor receivers. Next year this issues will likely be resolved. Smith will be a very good QB just not Elite. I can go with that. I think Smith is riding around #20 as a QB this season. I think he can be in the 10 to 15 range. The problems with their offensive line, and receivers do hamper his results. Albert Wilson has the potential to be very good. If he dedicates himself, he could be outstanding. He needs to run better routes. Learning the offense will come. The coaches obviously believe Wilson can handle the workload. He is getting plenty of action, but they are also playing him at various positions on the field. He has done very well learning the playbook. There have been glitches, but those are to be expected. I anticipate the Chiefs will start Bowe, Wilson, and perhaps a drafted player next season. Bowe has been a lot more steady this year. He deserves to remain on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It really is protection and some really poor receivers. Next year this issues will likely be resolved. Smith will be a very good QB just not Elite. Len Dawson was not elite. He just operated behind an elite O-line. So, he played in two Super Bowls and won one of them. That made him elite. Now Manning...he can be elite even behind an average O-line. If we got a freak of nature like that, we could win a lot of super bowls. But I am happy with Alex Smith. He is good enough. We should always keep an eye out, though. It takes some luck. Todd Blackledge was a good try. Just bad luck. A snakebitten franchise is one that stops trying and becomes too afraid of the big, embarrassing bust to roll the dice on one. That's why changing regimes is needed every decade or so. To eliminate that fear factor. To bring in people who will roll the dice once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Bowe will be gone. I sure hope so. Still cant stay in bounds or make big plays. Way over paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Bowe will be gone. I sure hope so. Still cant stay in bounds or make big plays. Way over paid. Nope. He is the best downfield blocker we have. He is the one who has busted Charles loose for half of his touchdowns. And he is a great person and kind of the soul of the team. He also has some years left on his last contract. Bowe will not be gone and shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Len Dawson was not elite. He just operated behind an elite O-line. So, he played in two Super Bowls and won one of them. That made him elite. Now Manning...he can be elite even behind an average O-line. If we got a freak of nature like that, we could win a lot of super bowls. But I am happy with Alex Smith. He is good enough. We should always keep an eye out, though. It takes some luck. Todd Blackledge was a good try. Just bad luck. A snakebitten franchise is one that stops trying and becomes too afraid of the big, embarrassing bust to roll the dice on one. That's why changing regimes is needed every decade or so. To eliminate that fear factor. To bring in people who will roll the dice once more. With this franchise and history, trading for Smith was risky, too. If he matched Cassel with losses? Risky in a way, by not getting a QB early and sending two second rounders away, plus if Derek Carr ends up being the next best AFC West QB after Manning retires. The difference is that KC could move on earlier from Smith, but the rookie scale fixes that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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