This is the Kansas City Chiefs offense right now (don't look directly at it)

[dhitter 1,424]

Regardless of whether it's Smith or the Oline or bad receivers or a combination there of...

 

The fact is the Chiefs always seem to be a day late and a dollar short when it comes to building a team. For the life of me I cannot understand how this team continues to miss it. We haven't even had back to back double digit win seasons in over 20 years. Never won back to back AFC Wet titles even though every other team in the division has done it multiple times. In spite of the occasional highlight this team has been historically inept...and frankly it wears on a lifelong fan like me.

[PhataLerror 370]

Number 1 on the list is definitely Aaron Rodgers. He has had some god awful o-lines, but still has put up some great numbers. I think Roethlisberger can be thrown into that category also. For the most part I agree with you. I think Smith played good last year and showed what he can do with even an above average line. He probably doesn't need the line of hall of famers, but he definitely needs better than what we have. 

 

We are stuck with him until 2017 unless we cut him before March 5th. That is probably not going to happen, so we need to build around him. 

 

I think the Chiefs have overachieved this year. People are forgetting how ugly pre-season was. 98% of fans expected Smith to be hurt at some point this year with the performance the line had. We have since lost 2 starters from that group and replaced them with 2 guys off the street(McGlynn and Harris). 

In what year did Aaron Rodgers have "awful receiving targets"? And in what year did Ben Roethlisberger have an awful offensive line and do anything?

 

Alex Smith did not have an above average offensive line last year. We were yelling about his line then, too.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Regardless of whether it's Smith or the Oline or bad receivers or a combination there of...

 

The fact is the Chiefs always seem to be a day late and a dollar short when it comes to building a team. For the life of me I cannot understand how this team continues to miss it. We haven't even had back to back double digit win seasons in over 20 years. Never won back to back AFC Wet titles even though every other team in the division has done it multiple times. In spite of the occasional highlight this team has been historically inept...and frankly it wears on a lifelong fan like me.

I've heard some people express the desire for us to lose a game or two to avoid the X number of consecutive playoff losses. But if they care about that, why don't they care about consecutive double digits win years or years without a playoff win? Obviously, if we make the playoffs and lose in the first round we can't overcome the 20 years of no playoff wins. However, if we miss the playoffs, it still goes to 21.

 

I can see, but disagree with, those who want to better draft pick and therefore miss the playoffs because we have no chance. But I don't see how anyone can be caring about these consecutive records and want us to miss the playoffs. That just makes those longer.

[CWil 30]

In what year did Aaron Rodgers have "awful receiving targets"? And in what year did Ben Roethlisberger have an awful offensive line and do anything?

 

Alex Smith did not have an above average offensive line last year. We were yelling about his line then, too.

 

Both of these QB's are known for their ability to move in the pocket and avoid tackles. Basically their whole careers have been categorized by horrible o-line play. I don't know where the disagreement is with that. Both those QB's are better than Smith and it's not even close. 

 

As the original post showed, our WR are getting open, Smith is not getting them the ball, and that is mainly because of the o-line. I am not putting the entire blame on Smith here, but he is no where near the ability of Rodgers or Big Ben in his ability to extend a play and still get a good pass off. Maybe this all has more to do with play-calling, but a bad o-line and Alex Smith as your QB is a very bad combination. 

 

We pretty much complain about our o-line every year, but IMO we had an above average line last year. I am not saying they were great or even good, just above average. I would gladly take our combination of Albert, Allen, Hudson, Schwartz, and Fisher/Stephenson compared to the crap we have put out there this year. 

[PhataLerror 370]

Both of these QB's are known for their ability to move in the pocket and avoid tackles. Basically their whole careers have been categorized by horrible o-line play. I don't know where the disagreement is with that. Both those QB's are better than Smith and it's not even close. 

 

As the original post showed, our WR are getting open, Smith is not getting them the ball, and that is mainly because of the o-line. I am not putting the entire blame on Smith here, but he is no where near the ability of Rodgers or Big Ben in his ability to extend a play and still get a good pass off. Maybe this all has more to do with play-calling, but a bad o-line and Alex Smith as your QB is a very bad combination. 

 

We pretty much complain about our o-line every year, but IMO we had an above average line last year. I am not saying they were great or even good, just above average. I would gladly take our combination of Albert, Allen, Hudson, Schwartz, and Fisher/Stephenson compared to the crap we have put out there this year. 

I guess I was left confused by an evaluation metric that tiers upward: Above average, good, great. There must be several measures better than "great" and an even greater number of measures worse than "above average". In any case, the Chiefs' offensive line in 2013 was ranked by PFF as 16th in pass blocking, which lends itself to a tiering I could describe as no better than "average" (the Chiefs' pass blocking ranked behind both the Steelers' and the Packers'). This year, the line is far worse than "average", and would be akin to what I'd call "college grade".

 

I've constantly considered Aaron Rodgers the top quarterback among the "elite", but he's always had good stuff around him on offense. Even when his offensive line was a liability, there were good things to be found in his receiver corps. In his Super Bowl-winning year, he was throwing to Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, and Donald Driver. I'd be happy to have the 2010 James Jones and 2010 Donald Driver as a WR2 and WR3 on these Chiefs instead of what the Chiefs have now, and for the Packers they were an WR3 and WR4. Both Jennings and Nelson in 2010 were more versatile than Bowe is in 2014. I just can't accept the assessment that Aaron Rodgers has ever played with anything less than a half-stacked deck.

 

As for Roethlisberger, he's played for a team with an entirely different offensive scheme than what either the Packers or Chiefs use. He's had good receivers (Hines Ward, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown), and his line hasn't exactly been terrible. When did Roethlisberger do his damage in the post-season? When the Steelers' defense was elite. Roethlisberger threw a pick-six in the first quarter of Super Bowl XLV to give the Packers a 14-0 lead. I don't esteem Roethlisberger as highly as many do, and part of that is because the ceiling created by his toughness in and out of the pocket is countered by his floor in what I've seen to be frequently poor decision-making. He definitely throws up balls for his receivers to 'go up and get', but that doesn't make a quarterback 'great'. I would definitely settle for a Roethlisberger, but I wouldn't be able to build an offense around such a quarterback.

[artsy 1,137]

Both of these QB's are known for their ability to move in the pocket and avoid tackles. Basically their whole careers have been categorized by horrible o-line play. I don't know where the disagreement is with that. Both those QB's are better than Smith and it's not even close. 

 

As the original post showed, our WR are getting open, Smith is not getting them the ball, and that is mainly because of the o-line. I am not putting the entire blame on Smith here, but he is no where near the ability of Rodgers or Big Ben in his ability to extend a play and still get a good pass off. Maybe this all has more to do with play-calling, but a bad o-line and Alex Smith as your QB is a very bad combination. 

 

We pretty much complain about our o-line every year, but IMO we had an above average line last year. I am not saying they were great or even good, just above average. I would gladly take our combination of Albert, Allen, Hudson, Schwartz, and Fisher/Stephenson compared to the crap we have put out there this year. 

I'm starting to think that Andy thinks his oline is playing okay, and the problems are with his playcalling and qb and wr's. He never says much of anything in his press conferences about how bad the oline is playing, specifically Mcspin..He only says things like, "we missed some catches", or "we missed some opportunities there on offense". He never, ever really speaks about the oline, in a negative or positive light.

 

He obviously doesn't think McShit sucks as much as we do. As a matter of fact, the only sub he's made on the online has been with Harris/Stephenson. He then switched out Avery for Wilson, but has not done anything about Mcsuck.

 

Reid says he likes Mcglyn's "nastiness and attitude", but how in hell does that translate to blocking?? Maybe he's nasty and has an attitude because he's always getting beat??

 

IMO, Reid thinks his oline plays bad at times because of assignment failures and playcalling, which is why he keeps saying that "we can get those things fixed". And although I believe that is a big part of the problem, it's not the only problem with this shitty oline. I have watched, just as many of you have, this season, Mcglyn and Harris take down a full offensive series, with either penalties or just flat losing their one on battles. Yet and still, Reid refuses to take a chance on replacing McShit with anyone else.

 

Reminds me alot of the K. Lewis situation last year. He was a clear and obvious problem in the secondary last year, but Reid and co. refused to take him out and put Abdullah in?? WTF.!

 

I'm begining to get this real nasty taste in my mouth about Andy...already. It could just be my anger and disappointment talking right now, but I don't know. His tendancy to stray and stay away from the run and stick with guys that he "likes" regardless of their performance, is something Philly fans warned me about. I don't like it, at all.

 

[CWil 30]

I'm starting to think that Andy thinks his oline is playing okay, and the problems are with his playcalling and qb and wr's. He never says much of anything in his press conferences about how bad the oline is playing, specifically Mcspin..He only says things like, "we missed some catches", or "we missed some opportunities there on offense". He never, ever really speaks about the oline, in a negative or positive light.

 

He obviously doesn't think McShit sucks as much as we do. As a matter of fact, the only sub he's made on the online has been with Harris/Stephenson. He then switched out Avery for Wilson, but has not done anything about Mcsuck.

 

Reid says he likes Mcglyn's "nastiness and attitude", but how in hell does that translate to blocking?? Maybe he's nasty and has an attitude because he's always getting beat??

 

IMO, Reid thinks his oline plays bad at times because of assignment failures and playcalling, which is why he keeps saying that "we can get those things fixed". And although I believe that is a big part of the problem, it's not the only problem with this shitty oline. I have watched, just as many of you have, this season, Mcglyn and Harris take down a full offensive series, with either penalties or just flat losing their one on battles. Yet and still, Reid refuses to take a chance on replacing McShit with anyone else.

 

Reminds me alot of the K. Lewis situation last year. He was a clear and obvious problem in the secondary last year, but Reid and co. refused to take him out and put Abdullah in?? WTF.!

 

I'm begining to get this real nasty taste in my mouth about Andy...already. It could just be my anger and disappointment talking right now, but I don't know. His tendancy to stray and stay away from the run and stick with guys that he "likes" regardless of their performance, is something Philly fans warned me about. I don't like it, at all.

 

 

I can't disagree with anything you just said. The only thing I will say is, Andy kind of is handcuffed here. Linkenbach is no upgrade over McGlynn and The Canadian Doctor kid isn't either. We could pick another guy up off the street but it probably doesn't solve the issue. Stephenson looked like complete dogshit in pre-season, and he didn't look great in his limited snaps. I would have already made that change, but there is probably more to this situation than any of us know.

 

I think Reid fully knows his line sucks balls though. Taking them down in the media will do absolutely nothing. I think his non mention and trying to shift blame is a tactic most coaches use in the situation. The reason I say he knows they suck is because of his play calling. He will always take the blame for it, but in reality the o-line is so poor it effects his play calling. Granted I think he hasn't called great games, but I can kind of understand why with as bad as the o-line is. Its been an issue since pre-season and we could only cover it up for so long before it was exposed. 

[artsy 1,137]

I can't disagree with anything you just said. The only thing I will say is, Andy kind of is handcuffed here. Linkenbach is no upgrade over McGlynn and The Canadian Doctor kid isn't either. We could pick another guy up off the street but it probably doesn't solve the issue. Stephenson looked like complete dogshit in pre-season, and he didn't look great in his limited snaps. I would have already made that change, but there is probably more to this situation than any of us know.

 

I think Reid fully knows his line sucks balls though. Taking them down in the media will do absolutely nothing. I think his non mention and trying to shift blame is a tactic most coaches use in the situation. The reason I say he knows they suck is because of his play calling. He will always take the blame for it, but in reality the o-line is so poor it effects his play calling. Granted I think he hasn't called great games, but I can kind of understand why with as bad as the o-line is. Its been an issue since pre-season and we could only cover it up for so long before it was exposed. 

IDK, can Kush or Linkenbach really be worse than Mcsuck?

They must.

[kychief 239]

artsy..they must be worse...

 

is so then these bums..kush and linkenbach should be cut first thing next year..cause mcspinn is as bad a player as any I have ever seen..so the other 2 have no business on the roster.

[artsy 1,137]

artsy..they must be worse...

 

is so then these bums..kush and linkenbach should be cut first thing next year..cause mcspinn is as bad a player as any I have ever seen..so the other 2 have no business on the roster.

Agree. But I will say that Kush didn't look that bad in preseason or last years San Diego game..

[KCSLC2008 606]

It's hard to evaluate receivers when the QB needs time to let routes develop and is hesitant to throw the ball or stick in the pocket, if there is any.

 

It's hard to evaluate the QB when the oline is inconsistent and therefore unreliable. Even when the oline has protected, it isn't reliable. Smith cannot rely that the pocket is going to be good. That's where Reid can tell him to rely upon them regardless. Maybe that's the issue. But once he does that, occasionally he has been sacked.

 

One thing I do know is when Smith had a good offensive line in San Francisco, he did well and averaged 8 yards per attempt. That was good for top five, even though I would not call him top five. Some of that is yards after the catch, but some of that is being able to stick in the pocket. Even then, his first year under Harbaugh he had a lot of sacks.

[dhitter 1,424]

I've heard some people express the desire for us to lose a game or two to avoid the X number of consecutive playoff losses. But if they care about that, why don't they care about consecutive double digits win years or years without a playoff win? Obviously, if we make the playoffs and lose in the first round we can't overcome the 20 years of no playoff wins. However, if we miss the playoffs, it still goes to 21.

 

I can see, but disagree with, those who want to better draft pick and therefore miss the playoffs because we have no chance. But I don't see how anyone can be caring about these consecutive records and want us to miss the playoffs. That just makes those longer.

Well I hope that isn't referencing me because I always want the Chiefs to win. Losing is for....well losers

[SEMO 6,811]

Reid says he likes Mcglyn's "nastiness and attitude", but how in hell does that translate to blocking?? Maybe he's nasty and has an attitude because he's always getting beat??

 

 

He cusses them as they run by.

[kccrow 529]

IDK, can Kush or Linkenbach really be worse than Mcsuck?

They must.

 

I've never seen Link play as bad as McGlynn, and he filled in last year for Asamoah, so I cant wrap my head around Andy Reid's inept decision not to bench McGlynn. Hell, why have two youngsters on the roster like LDT and Kush if you aren't willing to play them? Hell, Ricky Henry, on the practice squad, showed me more in the offseason programs than McGlynn has ever shown me in an NFL game in his career. McGlynn is literally one of the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen don a pro football uniform, he's terrible.

[PhataLerror 370]

It's hard to evaluate receivers when the QB needs time to let routes develop and is hesitant to throw the ball or stick in the pocket, if there is any.

 

It's hard to evaluate the QB when the oline is inconsistent and therefore unreliable. Even when the oline has protected, it isn't reliable. Smith cannot rely that the pocket is going to be good. That's where Reid can tell him to rely upon them regardless. Maybe that's the issue. But once he does that, occasionally he has been sacked.

 

One thing I do know is when Smith had a good offensive line in San Francisco, he did well and averaged 8 yards per attempt. That was good for top five, even though I would not call him top five. Some of that is yards after the catch, but some of that is being able to stick in the pocket. Even then, his first year under Harbaugh he had a lot of sacks.

[This response to this same post appears here, and was in the context of other posts discussing Smith's propensity even now for throwing to runningbacks. It should be acknowledged that the Jim Harbaugh-led 49ers have not run the West Coast Offense.]

 

In a West Coast Offense, yards after the catch is as much a credit to the quarterback as it is to the receiver. The general lack of understanding concerning that fact reflects the general lack of understanding regarding West Coast Offense principles. When Joe Montana was quarterback for the 49ers, in one of their championship seasons their second-leading receiver in receptions was a fullback, but you never heard anyone complain about Montana checking down too much. If Smith had a Jerry Rice to throw to... ah, but he doesn't. He has Dwayne Bowe.

 

I continue to have confidence that Avant will be an asset to this offense, becoming a target Smith can throw to after very short drops.

 

All of these references to 'how good Alex Smith's offensive line was in San Francisco' made me wonder if I had selective memory. Then I pulled up this article. No, my memory works fine. For the most part, Smith suffered the offensive line in San Francisco during the 2011 season. It was a solid unit in run blocking, but its pass blocking was horrendous at times. There were substantial upgrades made during the following off-season, and Smith helped the 49ers to a 6-2 record along the way before getting concussed in week 10. But Smith never had an offensive line like Drew Brees had in his Super Bowl year, and it would serve this forum well to represent the facts that way.

[PhataLerror 370]

I've never seen Link play as bad as McGlynn, and he filled in last year for Asamoah, so I cant wrap my head around Andy Reid's inept decision not to bench McGlynn. Hell, why have two youngsters on the roster like LDT and Kush if you aren't willing to play them? Hell, Ricky Henry, on the practice squad, showed me more in the offseason programs than McGlynn has ever shown me in an NFL game in his career. McGlynn is literally one of the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen don a pro football uniform, he's terrible.

I can only assume that practice indicates to Andy Reid that if he benched McGlynn in favor of Linkenbach or Kush, they would then become one of the worst offensive linemen you've ever seen don a pro football uniform.

 

One thing is certain: Watching this offensive line trying to protect Smith is wearisome. Hopefully they've been thoroughly chewed out for their back-to-back weeks of terrible performances.

[kccrow 529]

I can only assume that practice indicates to Andy Reid that if he benched McGlynn in favor of Linkenbach or Kush, they would then become one of the worst offensive linemen you've ever seen don a pro football uniform.

 

One thing is certain: Watching this offensive line trying to protect Smith is wearisome. Hopefully they've been thoroughly chewed out for their back-to-back weeks of terrible performances.

 

I don't make the same assumptions. I've seen coaches make the same decisions as Reid in the same situation, don't disrupt continuity despite poor performance. The only assumption I'm making at this point is that Reid is going to request a serious upgrade made to the offensive line this offseason. Reid has always been a lineman first type of coach/manager, its coming.

[oldtimer 8,686]

I don't make the same assumptions. I've seen coaches make the same decisions as Reid in the same situation, don't disrupt continuity despite poor performance. The only assumption I'm making at this point is that Reid is going to request a serious upgrade made to the offensive line this offseason. Reid has always been a lineman first type of coach/manager, its coming.

 

 

 the Packer model is to use the mid round picks for O-linemen I expect the trend will continue if Dorsey has anything to say about it.

[SEMO 6,811]

the Packer model is to use the mid round picks for O-linemen I expect the trend will continue if Dorsey has anything to say about it.

Bulaga and Sherrod were 1st rounders.

[oldtimer 8,686]

Point well taken  but Sherrod has been cut and was a disappointment also was the 32 pick in the first. Both were taken as LT's of the future. SEMO I think you get my point tho. but  let me rephrase .

 

 EXCEPT for the LT position, players on the O-line areby trend  drafted in the mid rounds.

[SEMO 6,811]

Point well taken but Sherrod has been cut and was a disappointment also was the 32 pick in the first. Both were taken as LT's of the future. SEMO I think you get my point tho. but let me rephrase .

 

EXCEPT for the LT position, players on the O-line areby trend drafted in the mid rounds.

Point taken.

[PhataLerror 370]

EXCEPT for the LT position, players on the O-line areby trend  drafted in the mid rounds.

This is not terribly unusual. An offensive lineman needs to have incredible physical and mental measurables to justify a first round draft pick. There are too many other positions from which NFL-ready players or NFL players-of-the-future are difficult to get.

 

For what it's worth, sixteen NFL teams have drafted an offensive lineman in the first round during the past three seasons (with two drafting two offensive lineman in the first round during that time frame). Said teams have a combined record of 342-377-3 (.476), whereas the other sixteen teams have a combined record of 376-341-3 (.524). These first sixteen teams have a combined two wins in the previous two post-seasons. I'm not sure why anyone would think that there is a clear correlation between recent first round draft picks of offensive linemen and winning football games. It's just not that simple.

 

The league has its elite linemen, but can any of you without looking name at least two players from any one non-Chiefs team's starting offensive linemen and correctly identify the round they were drafted in? Offensive lines play as a unit, and eventually individual skill and ability takes a backseat to cohesion. You could have an elite player on an offensive line, but that player's not going to be able to account for every gap. You're going to have linemen of a lesser draft pedigree playing somewhere.

 

Should the Chiefs invest in offensive linemen in the upcoming draft? There's absolutely no question that they should. Should one of them be a first round pick? If the talent justifies the cost of the pick, sure. But there's no need to reach. There are other ways to acquire one or two competent offensive linemen besides the draft.

[kccrow 529]

 the Packer model is to use the mid round picks for O-linemen I expect the trend will continue if Dorsey has anything to say about it.

 

 

This is not terribly unusual. An offensive lineman needs to have incredible physical and mental measurables to justify a first round draft pick. There are too many other positions from which NFL-ready players or NFL players-of-the-future are difficult to get.

 

For what it's worth, sixteen NFL teams have drafted an offensive lineman in the first round during the past three seasons (with two drafting two offensive lineman in the first round during that time frame). Said teams have a combined record of 342-377-3 (.476), whereas the other sixteen teams have a combined record of 376-341-3 (.524). These first sixteen teams have a combined two wins in the previous two post-seasons. I'm not sure why anyone would think that there is a clear correlation between recent first round draft picks of offensive linemen and winning football games. It's just not that simple.

 

The league has its elite linemen, but can any of you without looking name at least two players from any one non-Chiefs team's starting offensive linemen and correctly identify the round they were drafted in? Offensive lines play as a unit, and eventually individual skill and ability takes a backseat to cohesion. You could have an elite player on an offensive line, but that player's not going to be able to account for every gap. You're going to have linemen of a lesser draft pedigree playing somewhere.

 

Should the Chiefs invest in offensive linemen in the upcoming draft? There's absolutely no question that they should. Should one of them be a first round pick? If the talent justifies the cost of the pick, sure. But there's no need to reach. There are other ways to acquire one or two competent offensive linemen besides the draft.

 

I would agree with both of you on this. I'm not saying KC should or will spend a 1st rounder on the offensive line, but I don't doubt they will spend some picks there. Reid has traditionally went after lineman on both sides of the ball rather early. Dorsey comes from a team that hasn't.

 

I traditionally have been of the thought that if you need a left tackle you have to get one in rounds 1 or 2, a right tackle in rounds 2 or 3, and guards and centers in rounds 3 to 5. Unless a team has the means to go after a premier lineman at a non-premium position, such as taking a guard in the 1st round, then I don't normally suggest it. I think if you have most of your team assembled and can do that, do it and become even stronger in a weak area.

 

At this juncture, I am expecting a RT pick in round 2 or 3, and a couple of guard picks between round 3 and 5. With the Chiefs likely having two 3rds and two 5ths in the upcoming draft, they can use those extra picks to fortify the line.

 

 

[PhataLerror 370]

I would agree with both of you on this. I'm not saying KC should or will spend a 1st rounder on the offensive line, but I don't doubt they will spend some picks there. Reid has traditionally went after lineman on both sides of the ball rather early. Dorsey comes from a team that hasn't.

 

I traditionally have been of the thought that if you need a left tackle you have to get one in rounds 1 or 2, a right tackle in rounds 2 or 3, and guards and centers in rounds 3 to 5. Unless a team has the means to go after a premier lineman at a non-premium position, such as taking a guard in the 1st round, then I don't normally suggest it. I think if you have most of your team assembled and can do that, do it and become even stronger in a weak area.

 

At this juncture, I am expecting a RT pick in round 2 or 3, and a couple of guard picks between round 3 and 5. With the Chiefs likely having two 3rds and two 5ths in the upcoming draft, they can use those extra picks to fortify the line.

One of the things that makes Mike Iupati an excellent guard is his explosion and burst at the snap, which enables him to dominate in the run game in both being a road grader and when pulling for runs to the outside. He's not a great blocker in pass protection, but he's not someone I would describe as a liability. He's got phenomenal toughness at the position, and he's very strong as well. He was worth his pick at 17th overall in 2010, and he played the position very well from a very early point in the season. I don't know if he would be affordable for the Chiefs, but I have a suspicion that the 49ers will not be able to re-sign him.

 

You can't find this sort of guard more than once every few years. He gives the run game immense versatility, and at the same time, he's not a guy you regret having when the quarterback has to drop back to pass. I'm certain there are two or three guards in the league that compare favorably to Iupati, but his skill set is so rare that I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the Hall of Fame one day.