KC Warpaint 3,234 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/1/28/7880535/kansas-city-chiefs-offseason-afc-west-denver-broncos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yes he can.. WILL HE? is the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcchief4lif 910 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Perfect summation of my current status as a lifelong Chief fan. History is a looming specter over this franchise and fan base. Everybody expects the worst because it is a defense mechanism. The city of Kansas City is constantly bracing for the disaster, ready for the latest humiliation to wash over. One day, that will finally change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I am more in the: History is a looming specter over this franchise and the fan base. I expect the team to "fall just short" because that is what they have been doing since 1970..... Change happens all the time, Championships are the result of a Great GM and a Great head Coach that are fully empowered by ownership. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ev 332 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yes he can.. WILL HE? is the questionIt all starts with Houston. If we franchise him, it's all about making money and not building a serious contender. Houston will not and should not resign if we slap him in the face with that. I'm still unconvinced that Clarky Poo will hold and expect his gm and coaches responsible as long as he is taking in the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It all starts with Houston. If we franchise him, it's all about making money and not building a serious contender. Houston will not and should not resign if we slap him in the face with that. Would you suggest not using the Franchise Tag and just giving away the only leverage the Chiefs would have in long-term contract negotiations? I think you're being a little naïve here. The Franchise Tag will be used on Houston, and then one of three things will happen: The Chiefs will have bought the time needed to re-sign Houston to a long-term contract, the Chiefs will trade Houston to a team that will give him a long-term contract and will give the Chiefs better than late third-round pick compensation, or Houston will dig his heels in, refuse to sign the tender, and refuse to accept any long-term contract offer. That last option is a no-win for everyone, costing the Chiefs a player, and costing Houston big money in his future contract. It doesn't seem like the relationship between the Chiefs and Houston has become that acrimonious. I do expect that Houston gets re-signed. He's almost as productive and almost as highly regarded as the likely 2014 NFL Defensive MVP award recipient J.J. Watt is, but Houston won't have the trophy. Therefore, slotting his contract financially as slightly-less than the best will not be difficult. The Chiefs do understand that they need Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,234 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Would you suggest not using the Franchise Tag and just giving away the only leverage the Chiefs would have in long-term contract negotiations? I think you're being a little naïve here. The Franchise Tag will be used on Houston, and then one of three things will happen: The Chiefs will have bought the time needed to re-sign Houston to a long-term contract, the Chiefs will trade Houston to a team that will give him a long-term contract and will give the Chiefs better than late third-round pick compensation, or Houston will dig his heels in, refuse to sign the tender, and refuse to accept any long-term contract offer. That last option is a no-win for everyone, costing the Chiefs a player, and costing Houston big money in his future contract. It doesn't seem like the relationship between the Chiefs and Houston has become that acrimonious. I do expect that Houston gets re-signed. He's almost as productive and almost as highly regarded as the likely 2014 NFL Defensive MVP award recipient J.J. Watt is, but Houston won't have the trophy. Therefore, slotting his contract financially as slightly-less than the best will not be difficult. The Chiefs do understand that they need Houston. Most here are hoping that the chiefs and Houston can reach a contract agreement long before they would ever have to tag him. Other Teams do it why can't we? On the subject of compensation for another team signing a tagged player, isn't the compensation usually one or two first round picks for starters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sure, he has a chance if he listens to me... bwahahaha.... All kidding aside, yeah he can turn this around into a legitimate contender. He's going to have to make the tough decisions by cutting the washed up guys and paying the talent he does have. He's going to have to land some talent on offense in free agency and have a good draft. I respect what PFF put out regarding being 8 above-average players short of being a legitimate contender. Dorsey has the opportunity to fix at least half of that this offseason. I don't think you can do it all. The Chiefs have to get significantly better at at least 2 of the 4 offensive line spots and re-sign Hudson. They have to get significantly better at at least 2 of the receiver positions. They need to get better at the WILL spot defensively. They don't have to go all in to do this, but they have to hit these correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 9-7 can get to 11-5 pretty easy.....If he makes the moves this board recommends. Hell, Crow even walked him down the path and included salaries.... w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 9-7 can get to 11-5 pretty easy.....If he makes the moves this board recommends. Hell, Crow even walked him down the path and included salaries.... w The Chiefs were only two plays away from being 11-5 this season although I'll admit they weren't playoff contender ready. They were also only a few plays from being 7-9. The point being any mid-level team can make a move up with only a few FAs and draft picks working out. If Dorsey makes good enough decisions this winter, the Chiefs will be a very entertaining team next season with a realistic chance to win a playoff game to two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The Chiefs were only two plays away from being 11-5 this season although I'll admit they weren't playoff contender ready. They were also only a few plays from being 7-9. The point being any mid-level team can make a move up with only a few FAs and draft picks working out. If Dorsey makes good enough decisions this winter, the Chiefs will be a very entertaining team next season with a realistic chance to win a playoff game to two. I'm sorry if you see this as splitting heirs, but I believe we were playoff contender ready this year, but not SB contender ready or not even WC win ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Would you suggest not using the Franchise Tag and just giving away the only leverage the Chiefs would have in long-term contract negotiations? I think you're being a little naïve here. The Franchise Tag will be used on Houston, and then one of three things will happen: The Chiefs will have bought the time needed to re-sign Houston to a long-term contract, the Chiefs will trade Houston to a team that will give him a long-term contract and will give the Chiefs better than late third-round pick compensation, or Houston will dig his heels in, refuse to sign the tender, and refuse to accept any long-term contract offer. That last option is a no-win for everyone, costing the Chiefs a player, and costing Houston big money in his future contract. It doesn't seem like the relationship between the Chiefs and Houston has become that acrimonious. I do expect that Houston gets re-signed. He's almost as productive and almost as highly regarded as the likely 2014 NFL Defensive MVP award recipient J.J. Watt is, but Houston won't have the trophy. Therefore, slotting his contract financially as slightly-less than the best will not be difficult. The Chiefs do understand that they need Houston. Most here are hoping that the chiefs and Houston can reach a contract agreement long before they would ever have to tag him. Other Teams do it why can't we? On the subject of compensation for another team signing a tagged player, isn't the compensation usually one or two first round picks for starters? Franchises may use a Franchise Tag or the Transition Tag on one player whose contract has expired beginning this year on February 16. The deadline for tagging is reached on March 2. If a player isn't tendered or under contract by then, they're headed for free agency. The clock is ticking for Justin Houston and the Chiefs. If they don't come to an agreement before the end of February, the Chiefs would likely use the Franchise Tag on Houston, buying themselves additional time to get Justin Houston under a long-term contract. Alternatively, when a player is franchise tagged with the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag, other teams have the option of submitting a contract offer, which if accepted by Houston and not matched by the Chiefs would result in the contracting team forfeiting to the Chiefs their next two available first-round draft picks (specifically the picks assigned to their team). What often happens is that the tagged player is traded to another team for substantially less than two first-round draft picks. There's about a month left before either Houston and the Chiefs agree on a contract or the Chiefs unilaterally determine whether or not to slap one of the Franchise Tags (presumably the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag) on Houston. People will argue about whether the Franchise Tag is ethical or not, but the reality is that the tag is often the one thing that stands between a team maintaining continuity and that same team plummeting into irrelevance. Houston is the Chiefs' most valuable player not under contract, and that's a commodity that has to be protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 They are meeting currently. It's going to get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm sorry if you see this as splitting heirs, but I believe we were playoff contender ready this year, but not SB contender ready or not even WC win ready. Inasmuch as the 9-7 Chargers made it to the dance in 2013, the 9-7 Chiefs would have been a more worthy entry into the 2014 post-season than the 10-5-1 Bengals or 10-6 Steelers, neither of which played against a winning Strength of Schedule, and both of which got bounced out of the playoffs in the Wild Card round. It's not as if the Chiefs didn't have their chances to get in, and I still think that Dave Toub is the coach that has to prove his worth to the Chiefs heading into 2015: His squad had the talent, but the talent clearly didn't have the coaching.[/sourgrapes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ev 332 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Franchises may use a Franchise Tag or the Transition Tag on one player whose contract has expired beginning this year on February 16. The deadline for tagging is reached on March 2. If a player isn't tendered or under contract by then, they're headed for free agency. The clock is ticking for Justin Houston and the Chiefs. If they don't come to an agreement before the end of February, the Chiefs would likely use the Franchise Tag on Houston, buying themselves additional time to get Justin Houston under a long-term contract. Alternatively, when a player is franchise tagged with the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag, other teams have the option of submitting a contract offer, which if accepted by Houston and not matched by the Chiefs would result in the contracting team forfeiting to the Chiefs their next two available first-round draft picks (specifically the picks assigned to their team). What often happens is that the tagged player is traded to another team for substantially less than two first-round draft picks. There's about a month left before either Houston and the Chiefs agree on a contract or the Chiefs unilaterally determine whether or not to slap one of the Franchise Tags (presumably the Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag) on Houston. People will argue about whether the Franchise Tag is ethical or not, but the reality is that the tag is often the one thing that stands between a team maintaining continuity and that same team plummeting into irrelevance. Houston is the Chiefs' most valuable player not under contract, and that's a commodity that has to be protected. And you don't use a tag on a commodity that will use it at leverage next year. By not signing him, the Chiefs IMO run the risk of sending a bad message to him and his agent. This is a no brainer, but then again it's the Chiefs, proven losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 And you don't use a tag on a commodity that will use it at leverage next year. By not signing him, the Chiefs IMO run the risk of sending a bad message to him and his agent. This is a no brainer, but then again it's the Chiefs, proven losers. The only leverage against the tag is to choose not to sign it until the deadline, after OTA's, and just before Training Camp. It's up to Justin Houston if he wants to play the spite card, but the reality is that he was offered a long-term contract last year, he didn't accept the offer, and had the good circumstance of nearly topping the single-season sacks record in a contract year. He's still got to face the franchise tag (which no doubt factored into the negotiations last year), but he'll get a better contract than he would have had he signed last year. The only question that remains is who will be the team that contracts with him. It's a little bit of a stretch to argue that using the Franchise Tag is going to automatically make the situation acrimonious. Players don't like being tagged, but it usually serves the purpose of bringing the player back to the negotiating table, and in the end, both team and player win. Drew Brees, Ndamukong Suh, and Ryan Clady were all but free agents, got tagged, grumbled about it publicly, and continued playing for their teams. Branden Albert played on the Franchise Tag in 2013, and it turned out to be a good thing for the Chiefs: They didn't throw a bunch of money at a left tackle that proved to be overrated and continued to be injury prone. Maybe a deal gets done before the tag deadline, but this isn't baseball: There aren't arbitrary unwritten rules that say you can't tag a player that nearly set records in a contract year. The Chiefs will do what's best for the Chiefs, and if Justin Houston forced them to tag him, they will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ev 332 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The only leverage against the tag is to choose not to sign it until the deadline, after OTA's, and just before Training Camp. It's up to Justin Houston if he wants to play the spite card, but the reality is that he was offered a long-term contract last year, he didn't accept the offer, and had the good circumstance of nearly topping the single-season sacks record in a contract year. He's still got to face the franchise tag (which no doubt factored into the negotiations last year), but he'll get a better contract than he would have had he signed last year. The only question that remains is who will be the team that contracts with him. It's a little bit of a stretch to argue that using the Franchise Tag is going to automatically make the situation acrimonious. Players don't like being tagged, but it usually serves the purpose of bringing the player back to the negotiating table, and in the end, both team and player win. Drew Brees, Ndamukong Suh, and Ryan Clady were all but free agents, got tagged, grumbled about it publicly, and continued playing for their teams. Branden Albert played on the Franchise Tag in 2013, and it turned out to be a good thing for the Chiefs: They didn't throw a bunch of money at a left tackle that proved to be overrated and continued to be injury prone. Maybe a deal gets done before the tag deadline, but this isn't baseball: There aren't arbitrary unwritten rules that say you can't tag a player that nearly set records in a contract year. The Chiefs will do what's best for the Chiefs, and if Justin Houston forced them to tag him, they will do that. I don't agree, I just have a bad gut feeling that if we play w fire of not taking care of a player who needs to be here we will get burned. Chiefs organization hasn't done much to prove they know how to build a winner, it's not like we're the patriots who play hard ball with players and win. Don't get me wrong though, I get what you're saying, but I've never liked the tag hurting players who just want financial stability. To me it only helps teams cheap out leaving players playing another year where they might get injured and lose their ability to sign in free agency for high dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't agree, I just have a bad gut feeling that if we play w fire of not taking care of a player who needs to be here we will get burned. Chiefs organization hasn't done much to prove they know how to build a winner, it's not like we're the patriots who play hard ball with players and win. Don't get me wrong though, I get what you're saying, but I've never liked the tag hurting players who just want financial stability. To me it only helps teams cheap out leaving players playing another year where they might get injured and lose their ability to sign in free agency for high dollar. Dwayne Bowe. The Chiefs are again at a point where they will be trying to sign a player perceived to be one of the top five at his position. There's 'taking care of a player', and then there's the cap nightmare down the road. Is Justin Houston worth between an average of 9-10.5% of the salary cap every year for the next five years? Hesitantly, I say yes, but that's a ton of money, and a lot more than what is necessary for "financial stability". Did Houston earn a massive contract? Yes. The problem is that the Chiefs may not have the cap room with which to 'take care of him' according to the manner in which Houston is expecting to be taken care of. If that is the case, the Franchise Tag is the only thing that will keep Houston around, even if begrudgingly. I think people confuse not paying top-dollar for soon-to-be-free agents with 'being cheap': The salary cap floor dictated by the CBA ensures that teams can't be 'cheap'. Money will be spent on personnel. The question is, Who? I don't have a bad gut feeling about this. The Chiefs are coming into this next league year with a good amount of cap flexibility, and they are in a better position than a lot of teams to offer Justin Houston something like what he is looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't agree, I just have a bad gut feeling that if we play w fire of not taking care of a player who needs to be here we will get burned. Chiefs organization hasn't done much to prove they know how to build a winner, it's not like we're the patriots who play hard ball with players and win. Don't get me wrong though, I get what you're saying, but I've never liked the tag hurting players who just want financial stability. To me it only helps teams cheap out leaving players playing another year where they might get injured and lose their ability to sign in free agency for high dollar. Financial stability. Ehh, they have that already. I do want him to get fair market value for their play and hope we reach a deal without using the tag. I heard Hudson's tag is unreasonable, but of like to have it just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'll say it again...Financially, it makes much more sense for KC to sign Houston long term vs the tag. I think Dorsey is a smart guy and will get a good deal for all. Houston is saying all the right things.... w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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