kccrow 529 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Since the Raiders have plenty of money under the CAP, they would pounce on it. We would get their 1st pick this year, which is the #4 overall (possibly Kevin White). Then we would get their 1st round pick the following year, which would possibly be near the end of round 1, perhaps #32. lol. clever bugger, made me spit on my keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhitter 1,424 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I see this thread for what it is...a chance to get discussion going and rile some feathers in the process. Justin Houston is at minimum the 2nd best defensive player in the NFL. Better than Suh even though the knuckleheads at NFL network rate Suh as the #1 FA in the draft. Houston is only 25. My goodness I can only imagine the career he will have if he stays healthy. The most complete and lethal OLB in the NFL. So I trade that for 2 1st round picks who could be the next Ryan Sims and Jonathan Baldwin? PASS! Pay the man. I believe he will prove what he has already proven...he is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Since the Raiders have plenty of money under the CAP, they would pounce on it. We would get their 1st pick this year, which is the #4 overall (possibly Kevin White). Then we would get their 1st round pick the following year, which would possibly be near the end of round 1, perhaps #32. lol. clever bugger, made me spit on my keyboard. I almost spit bullets until I realized he was being sarcastic about the #32 part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Not everyone to come out of the draft is a Julius Peppers or a Mario Williams, but that doesn't mean they're a Dewayne Robertson either. When you get two early draft picks, you get all sorts of really good options that aren't available if your first pick is in the twenties overall and your second is in the fifties. Players need time to develop, and if someone inherits Houston's roster spot, they will be no exception. With that said, how much are you willing to stake on the idea that Justin Houston is a 22 sacks per year player that makes his whole team better rather than a 14 sacks a year player in a scheme that funneled an extra 8 sacks his way? How many of his sacks came in games where he made a mockery of weak offensive linemen? Are you aware that almost two-thirds of Houston's sacks in the past two seasons came on fewer than one-third of his starts, and that in his 20 starts where he didn't register multiple sacks, he racked up little more than a half-sack per game? I like Houston, and I think he's a great player. The reality here is that if he's the sort of player worth paying two first round draft picks to acquire, he is going to cost the Chiefs more than they will be able to afford to pay. As I've already said, it's not about his sacks. He is a great defender. He is great in coverage and very good against the run. Take what I said about "sacks" and apply the same principle to every other statistical measure: Passes defended, tackles, fumbles forced, everything. How much are you willing to stake on the idea that if Justin Houston were playing across from mid-season waiver wire talent, he would still be productive statistically? For every scrub of a player in a defensive unit, offensive schemes can take out one of that defense's best players elsewhere by just not putting the ball in play toward their direction. This is almost as fundamental as football gets. If you pay Justin Houston an average of 10% of your total salary cap, what quality of player will you be able to afford to play across from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Spend the money on a franchise defensive player since we don't have a franchise qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Spend the money on a franchise defensive player since we don't have a franchise qb. Agree on the former, but not the latter. But needn't get into that. I know I'm in the minority and don't want to get into an argument. It's up to Smith, but he could be here longer than most think and he could benefit from picks that you would surround a consensus franchise QB. I don't glue my idea of a franchise QB to the perception of the masses or even my current foresight view. I let him prove it or be replaced. I'll accept whatever happens and hope that if he is it is with a good QB to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You don't get 2, 1st round draft picks THIS YEAR! You get their 1st Rd. pick this year and their 1st Rd. pick next year!!!! Two firsts are two firsts. That said, no one would give two firsts for Justin Houston and we aren't going trade him anyway. That's too much for a LOLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Franchise tag applied. Conversation over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,234 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Since the Raiders have plenty of money under the CAP, they would pounce on it. We would get their 1st pick this year, which is the #4 overall (possibly Kevin White). Then we would get their 1st round pick the following year, which would possibly be near the end of round 1, perhaps #32. if they ever have the last pick at the end of round 1 then hell will have officially frozen over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Franchise tag applied. Conversation over. No, conversation just started. Franchise tag means we would have to get two firsts for him if we traded him. However, again, it's not going to happen anyway. That said, there is nothing to worry about. We still have like eight days to get under the cap and we can still sign him. Tamba was tagged when he got his current contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Houston now officially has the non exclusive tag. If it's a team picking high, he'll yes I'd consider it. But then I'm still high on fords potential. Not gonna happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Houston now officially has the non exclusive tag. If it's a team picking high, he'll yes I'd consider it. But then I'm still high on fords potential. Not gonna happen though. I hate this. I understand tagging him because that's the only way we can guarantee they have a chance to keep him (option to match). But now, it's bad for Houston in two ways: 1. Despite its money, players don't like to be franchised. 2. Non-exclusive is less money and perhaps an insult that we are ok with him leaving (though, functionally it is better for him to be able to negotiate elsewhere for higher than the exclusive franchise tag). Plus, he has an incentive to look elsewhere, even if we can match. There's that price being raised. If a team matches, do they have to take the same form as signed? Could a team put 20 M into year one and then 10 in the next? We barely has room for the 13 as it is. Can the Chiefs raise the price but put 10 in the first and 21 in the second (numbers are for illustrative purposes only). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If a team matches, do they have to take the same form as signed? Could a team put 20 M into year one and then 10 in the next? We barely has room for the 13 as it is. Can the Chiefs raise the price but put 10 in the first and 21 in the second (numbers are for illustrative purposes only). Yes, they have to match the offer sheet as it was drafted by the other team. That is, all "Principle Terms," which includes most all items that actually matter like salary, bonuses, performance incentives, etc. There are no "poison pills" anymore, so the contract offer sheet of the New Club is exactly how the contract must be structured by the new club. If they can put 20 million into 2014, then so be it, but it stays that way when they draft the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I just got a very bad feeling about all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 How do you know its because if this? I have had a bad feeling about the Chiefs pretty much all the time since Stenerud missed the FG against the Fins. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spfdchiefsfan 621 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Let some team sign him, take the 2 picks. Think about it, in the next 2 drafts, you get 4 of the first 64 players. Now, if it was Pioli, I would be concerned, but I think Reid and Dorsey could do some REAL damage with that many picks in the first round! I for one, would love to see the Raiders sign him to an offer sheet! We know we would then be picking number 4 this year, and top 10 next year as well as our 18, and 32 next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Let some team sign him, take the 2 picks. Think about it, in the next 2 drafts, you get 4 of the first 64 players. Now, if it was Pioli, I would be concerned, but I think Reid and Dorsey could do some REAL damage with that many picks in the first round! I for one, would love to see the Raiders sign him to an offer sheet! We know we would then be picking number 4 this year, and top 10 next year as well as our 18, and 32 next year! I guess, but then we'd have to face Houston every year, too. Ugg. Don't like that. I don't like making Oakland any better, either (yes, better, but subtract two first rounders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Could this actually happen? thread... Read this on another board: I trade the 2nd overall pick on March 10th to the Eagles for Nick Foles and 2-1st round picks.I then negotiate a long term deal with Justin Houston that front loads a deal 25-30 million against the cap in the 1st year that Dorsey would not be able to match.You end up with a franchise QB in Nick Foles who fits Ken Whisenhunt's offense perfectly and the 2nd best defensive player in the NFL who is only 25 years old who fits your defense perfectly.So for the #2 overall pick you will receive Nick Foles and Justin Houston.It's scary to think about as a KC fan….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Dorsey says he wants to see Houston in a chiefs uniform for a long time. I believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Dorsey says he wants to see Houston in a chiefs uniform for a long time. I believe him. I HATED this when I first read that it was the non-exclusive tag, but thinking about it more, I will change it to hating it (lower case). It's basically saying we want him to either: 1. Sign the long-term deal here, the non-exclusivity tag doesn't matter if we do. 2. Sign the long term deal elsewhere for less than he was asking (2 first rounder's might cause the other teams to be less willing to give more money) - match it. 3. Rather have two first rounders than him to play one year for more (exclusive) and leave us (third round compensatory pick?). 4. Or none of that happens and we get him for cheaper (non-exclusive) - sign next year, tag, or let him go. Those are better options than: 1. Sign the long-term deal here, the tag doesn't matter if we do. 2. Don't. Tag, long-term next year, or let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I believe year to year salary can only fluctuate by a certain percentage, so much harder to structure a contract that teams can't match. I personally do not believe anyone will give up the picks, but this allows Houston to figure out his worth on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 well.................. The Kansas City Chiefs used the non-exclusive franchise tag on star OLB Justin Houston, which means there is a possibility another NFL team will sign Houston…at a price. We told you earlier that the Chiefs tagged Houston but at the time, we only had an ESPN report to go on. We did not know which version of the tag Houston got until now. What does this mean? Well, if the Chiefs had given Houston the exclusive franchise tag, no other team would have been able to make the NFL’s 2014 sack leader an offer. By using the non-exclusive tag, the Chiefs have opened the door for another team to come in and make Houston an offer. If Houston accepts, he would sign an offer sheet. Should that happen, the Chiefs would have some time to match whatever contract offer Houston received. If the Chiefs fail to match the offer, Houston would be allowed to join the new team. The catch is that any team that signs Houston away from the Chiefs would be required to surrender two first-round draft picks to Kansas City. From Pro Football Talk: Per a league source, Houston intends to aggressively pursue an offer sheet from another team, targeting teams that would be giving up a low first-round pick in 2015 and, most likely, a low first-round pick in 2016. Houston also intends to continue to pursue an offer sheet after the draft, when the compensation necessarily will become a first-round pick in 2016 and 2017. Houston, we’re told, is seriously considering staying away from the Chiefs until the Week 10 deadline for signing the franchise tender. If nothing materializes by then, Houston would sign the tender, finish the season, and hit the market in 2016 — unless the Chiefs plan to tender him again, at a 20-percent raise over the 2015 franchise tender. PFT is right. Houston doesn’t have to sign his franchise tender from the Chiefs until Week 10 of the 2015 season. That is a position the Chiefs do not want to be in. The Chiefs released a statement today, announcing that they tagged Houston. “Justin is a talented player and a key contributor to our defense,” Chiefs General Manager John Dorsey said. “Today was the deadline to designate a franchise player, and it was in the best interest of the club to place the tag on Justin. We will continue to discuss long-term options with him and his agent. Our goal is to reach a deal that is mutually beneficial. We want to keep Justin in a Chiefs uniform for years to come.” I believe the Chiefs want to keep Houston. The team still has time to come to a long term agreement with him. If I had to guess, I’d say the Chiefs are trying to keep their options open. Houston likely had very high contract demands. In fact, it is possible that after nearly breaking the NFL’s single-season sack record in 2014, Houston wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. If the Chiefs don’t think signing Houston to a monster deal presents enough value, they may be willing to see what the rest of the NFL is willing to pay for him. If Houston signs a deal the Chiefs are comfortable with, they can match and everyone can move on. If Houston signs a deal the Chiefs are not comfortable with, they can recoup some draft picks for their trouble. What do you think, Addicts? Is there any team out there willing to surrender two first-round picks for a player that doesn’t play QB? Is Houston, talented as he is, worth the Chiefs putting themselves in deeper salary cap trouble? KC had Houston last season and couldn’t even make the playoffs. The team has serious needs at offensive line and wide receiver. If they lose Houston, however, KC could have serious needs at pass rusher as well. I have a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 this was from.. http://arrowheadaddict.com/2015/03/02/chiefs-franchise-tag-justin-houston-non-exclusive/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiechief Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Could this actually happen? thread... Read this on another board: They didn't count the 2 first rounders they would have to give us for signing Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 They didn't count the 2 first rounders they would have to give us for signing Houston. They said they got those two first-round picks from Philadelphia for Foles and then they gave their first-round picks to us for Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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