kccrow 529 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm going to express my opinion on something here Bil, piggybacking off of what you wrote. It isn't against you but is more against the general "team speak" and "philosophy" we hear from GMs and whatnot. First, Best Player Available is draft myth in my eyes. This term is used over and over again by teams, GMs, and whomever to describe an artificial philosophy that aims to make people feel all nice and fuzzy. What do teams actually do? They draft best player available at a position of need whether that need is immediate or within the immediate future (usually 1 year, 2 years out at most). Let's pretend, for a moment, that teams actually did draft "best player available." Think back to the 2012 NFL draft. The Cleveland Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 overall despite that fact that Matt Kalil was WIDELY regarded as the best player prospect in that draft after Andrew Luck and RGiII, and the consensus top offensive left tackle. Not only did they take Richardson, they traded up from 4 to 3 to take Richardson over Kalil. Kalil would have had to play right tackle for the Browns, because they had Joe Thomas at left tackle, a perennial All-Pro player. This is just an example, but teams don't just take players because they are a top rated player. Teams try to fill holes, especially early on in the draft. Teams don't draft positions/players they have adequately filled for the near future. Teams will draft to fill holes they know are coming, whether they lack talent there or for financial reasons that they expect to hinder re-signing of players. The Chiefs did the latter last season and the former in 2013 in the first round. If my holes are at RT, CB, ILB, and WR then I'm going to do my best to plug as many of those holes with quality players. If I know that I'm going to likely need an OLB, DE, and an OG next year, then those positions are on my board too. When the draft rolls around, I follow my board and fill any of my current or future holes with the best player from my board. The further along the draft goes, the more I look at Special Teams and depth versus board value. I have yet to see a team legitimately draft purely on BPA philosophy. It would be great to have a team so good that all you had to do was follow a board and take the best player that fell to your pick, but that isn't realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 what if they go all crazy like and draft...a running back?... Gordon.....or.... I could see us drafting Gordon. He is so much like Charles. Not as fast but similar style..... We have to have a running back who can catch the football out of the backfield in this offense. Can Davis do that? So far so good but, I'm not sure he would be dependable for an entire season. The only thing that worries me about Gordon is that Wisconsin running backs never live up to the hype when they get in the NFL. I shouldn't stereotype but it worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 IF they take a RB, it better be Coleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Spent some time watching Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State again yesterday and feel that he is really over hyped. He does not cut very well. His 7.03 three cone at the combine reflects that too. That time is pedestrian. Peters and Johnson are clearly better. Waynes excels at defending deep routs but, struggles badly against comebacks, hooks, and curls. I mean really badly.... He is going to be eaten alive in the NFL on those routes. I would pass on Waynes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm going to express my opinion on something here Bil, piggybacking off of what you wrote. It isn't against you but is more against the general "team speak" and "philosophy" we hear from GMs and whatnot. First, Best Player Available is draft myth in my eyes. This term is used over and over again by teams, GMs, and whomever to describe an artificial philosophy that aims to make people feel all nice and fuzzy. What do teams actually do? They draft best player available at a position of need whether that need is immediate or within the immediate future (usually 1 year, 2 years out at most). Let's pretend, for a moment, that teams actually did draft "best player available." Think back to the 2012 NFL draft. The Cleveland Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 overall despite that fact that Matt Kalil was WIDELY regarded as the best player prospect in that draft after Andrew Luck and RGiII, and the consensus top offensive left tackle. Not only did they take Richardson, they traded up from 4 to 3 to take Richardson over Kalil. Kalil would have had to play right tackle for the Browns, because they had Joe Thomas at left tackle, a perennial All-Pro player. This is just an example, but teams don't just take players because they are a top rated player. Teams try to fill holes, especially early on in the draft. Teams don't draft positions/players they have adequately filled for the near future. Teams will draft to fill holes they know are coming, whether they lack talent there or for financial reasons that they expect to hinder re-signing of players. The Chiefs did the latter last season and the former in 2013 in the first round. If my holes are at RT, CB, ILB, and WR then I'm going to do my best to plug as many of those holes with quality players. If I know that I'm going to likely need an OLB, DE, and an OG next year, then those positions are on my board too. When the draft rolls around, I follow my board and fill any of my current or future holes with the best player from my board. The further along the draft goes, the more I look at Special Teams and depth versus board value. I have yet to see a team legitimately draft purely on BPA philosophy. It would be great to have a team so good that all you had to do was follow a board and take the best player that fell to your pick, but that isn't realistic. Interesting post. I mostly agree. I think that it is more often in the later rounds. Difficult to image not filling a hole in round 1. That guy needs to start. I would say Dee Ford is a good example of not drafting for an immediate need. And Rogers. And maybe Phillips. Everything is a need eventually. So I assume we are saying need as immediate need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm going to express my opinion on something here Bil, piggybacking off of what you wrote. It isn't against you but is more against the general "team speak" and "philosophy" we hear from GMs and whatnot. First, Best Player Available is draft myth in my eyes. This term is used over and over again by teams, GMs, and whomever to describe an artificial philosophy that aims to make people feel all nice and fuzzy. What do teams actually do? They draft best player available at a position of need whether that need is immediate or within the immediate future (usually 1 year, 2 years out at most). Let's pretend, for a moment, that teams actually did draft "best player available." Think back to the 2012 NFL draft. The Cleveland Browns took Trent Richardson at #3 overall despite that fact that Matt Kalil was WIDELY regarded as the best player prospect in that draft after Andrew Luck and RGiII, and the consensus top offensive left tackle. Not only did they take Richardson, they traded up from 4 to 3 to take Richardson over Kalil. Kalil would have had to play right tackle for the Browns, because they had Joe Thomas at left tackle, a perennial All-Pro player. This is just an example, but teams don't just take players because they are a top rated player. Teams try to fill holes, especially early on in the draft. Teams don't draft positions/players they have adequately filled for the near future. Teams will draft to fill holes they know are coming, whether they lack talent there or for financial reasons that they expect to hinder re-signing of players. The Chiefs did the latter last season and the former in 2013 in the first round. If my holes are at RT, CB, ILB, and WR then I'm going to do my best to plug as many of those holes with quality players. If I know that I'm going to likely need an OLB, DE, and an OG next year, then those positions are on my board too. When the draft rolls around, I follow my board and fill any of my current or future holes with the best player from my board. The further along the draft goes, the more I look at Special Teams and depth versus board value. I have yet to see a team legitimately draft purely on BPA philosophy. It would be great to have a team so good that all you had to do was follow a board and take the best player that fell to your pick, but that isn't realistic. Very good post. I cannot disagree, as much as I wonder what the long term outcome of pure BPA would be. I continue to find myself thinking of need based on contracts coming up in 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLchief 3,126 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Spent some time watching Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State again yesterday and feel that he is really over hyped. He does not cut very well. His 7.03 three cone at the combine reflects that too. That time is pedestrian. Peters and Johnson are clearly better. Waynes excels at defending deep routs but, struggles badly against comebacks, hooks, and curls. I mean really badly.... He is going to be eaten alive in the NFL on those routes. I would pass on Waynes. Probably won't make it past Minnesota at #11 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs69 1 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Dgb the kid is a thug always has been always will be. He is from my hometown and I have heard plenty of things about him that just got swept under the rug. Tons of talent but a bunch of trouble just waiting to happen. Sure someone will take a shot on him just hope it's not the chiefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Dgb the kid is a thug always has been always will be. He is from my hometown and I have heard plenty of things about him that just got swept under the rug. Tons of talent but a bunch of trouble just waiting to happen. Sure someone will take a shot on him just hope it's not the chiefs Hope not. I agree with you. What he got caught for has to be the tip of the iceberg, knowing the way college players are allowed to get away with about anything, unlike the NFL. In college, everyone covers for you. And even then, he was booted from his first team. He is an absolute disaster waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Very good post. I cannot disagree, as much as I wonder what the long term outcome of pure BPA would be. I continue to find myself thinking of need based on contracts coming up in 2-3 years. Back in about 1991 the Chiefs had Christian Okoye and Barry Word. Still opted to take another running Harvey Williams. BPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Okoye and Word were both gone the following year, so it could have been need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Sean Mannion, QB, Oregon State has a really slow delivery. I would definitely pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Word was to be the successor to Okoye but he got injured the following year. Chiefs couldn't have known Word would be injured when they drafted Williams. This was a BPA choice at a time they really needed someone to replace Steve DeBerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Harvey Williams had promise. That long neck helped him balance at high speed like a Cheetas tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 They clearly knew he was injury prone, so it was need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Harvey Williams had promise. That long neck helped him balance at high speed like a Cheetas tail. Who had the longer neck? Harvey Williams or Merton Hanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You mean Merton "The Giraffe" Hanks? They were both pencil-necked geeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 10 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 No to CB Jalen Collins of LSU we don't need him and Smith getting high and drunk together!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPT1974 21 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I usually will get the ones that are either undrafted or drafted low as they are elite as oppose to those in the first or second round, that turn into busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I thought about listing whoever was projected robe Mr. Irrelevant as a prospect I didn't like/thought was overrated, but didn't think anyone would get it. Then, I thought about doing a Top Five Prospects Thread for our last pick, as a joke, but KCCrow would actually have a list (found in his UDFA list possibly). Poor me. And Wilkie already has dibs on the April Fools Day Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I thought someone would have mentioned Andrus Peat because he is from Stanford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I thought someone would have mentioned Andrus Peat because he is from Stanford. I want to like him but he's Flozell Adams part deux. He's a penalty machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I want to like him but he's Flozell Adams part deux. He's a penalty machine. True. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000488130/article/scout-slams-overrated-stanford-ot-andrus-peat He just turned 21 years of age. He is a little soft. I think he has a 50/50 shot of fixing his issues and becoming a very good pass blocking LT. I don't think he will ever be dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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