MAUI 4,758 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I happen to especially approve disciplinary measures taken by individual clubs that go beyond the mere slap-on-the-wrist censures handed down by the NFL. If you think that the league disciplines for flagrant DUI/DWI violation convictions and No Contest pleas are somehow severe, you've fundamentally lost your moral compass by any reasonable definition. I don't assume to occupy the moral high ground or impress my values on anybody else.., If you violate the rules you face discipline.., If not you don't.., If there is an obvious disparity then you change the rules.., Its pretty simple.., Discipline should be legal, rational, practical, fair, equal and consistent.., If you can do that you win.., And you spend less time reacting to hysterics and more time solving the real problems.., That's how I see it anyway.., The last thing I want to be is the morality police.., But anybody that wants to put on that uniform is more than welcome to.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Discipline should be legal, rational, practical, fair, equal and consistent.., If you can do that you win.., And you spend less time reacting to hysterics and more time solving the real problems..,While hysteria usually lends to unnecessarily severe solutions to serious problems, I'm not sure that any of the NFL's disciplinary measures have been of the 'Witch Hunt' variety. I'm not inclined to believe that the NFL is as sensitive toward some of these issues as the general public is. There are of course some areas in this matter where the ethical principles from which American Law derives do not correlate directly to those that form the basis of the NFL's Code of Conduct. Determining unanimously the ethical merits of American Law alone is impossible to achieve given the conflicting ethics of legislators and their constituents, and trying to do the same for the fundamentally smaller and simpler NFL Code of Conduct is equally impossible for the same reasons. It's easy to be popular by condemning certain conduct, but it gets a lot stickier very quickly when degrees of guilt and reprehensibility must be ascertained, along with evidence of regret or, on the other hand, the likelihood of recidivism, and taking into account all of the above, having to accept the judgment of one appointed judge, or the judgment obtained by multiple judges. I will end my discission of the NFL's morality on this point: They are expected to police their own players, and to do so, they have adopted many of the principles from which American Law derives, and yet because of the limitations and imperfections inherent in American Law, the NFL is incapable of producing a Code of Conduct that is acceptable to all fans, all players, all administrators, or all owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 While hysteria usually lends to unnecessarily severe solutions to serious problems, I'm not sure that any of the NFL's disciplinary measures have been of the 'Witch Hunt' variety. I'm not inclined to believe that the NFL is as sensitive toward some of these issues as the general public is. There are of course some areas in this matter where the ethical principles from which American Law derives do not correlate directly to those that form the basis of the NFL's Code of Conduct. Determining unanimously the ethical merits of American Law alone is impossible to achieve given the conflicting ethics of legislators and their constituents, and trying to do the same for the fundamentally smaller and simpler NFL Code of Conduct is equally impossible for the same reasons. It's easy to be popular by condemning certain conduct, but it gets a lot stickier very quickly when degrees of guilt and reprehensibility must be ascertained, along with evidence of regret or, on the other hand, the likelihood of recidivism, and taking into account all of the above, having to accept the judgment of one appointed judge, or the judgment obtained by multiple judges. I will end my discission of the NFL's morality on this point: They are expected to police their own players, and to do so, they have adopted many of the principles from which American Law derives, and yet because of the limitations and imperfections inherent in American Law, the NFL is incapable of producing a Code of Conduct that is acceptable to all fans, all players, all administrators, or all owners. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 His suspension will very likely cost us at least one loss. Tough to replace your best corner in a pass happy league. Im standing firm, I don't care if its politically correct, this punishes the fans. Its only 16 games and one loss is way to big a price. The player should pay a huge fine and that's it. Oh by the way: This idea that everyone that gets a DUI loses their job, is a story with little reality. Most do not lose their jobs. The legal costs and insurance costs are usually a huge wake up call. Maybe repeat offenders lose their jobs buy even that is without proof. I know the NFL wont change but I can still complain. There are likely two losses between the Smith suspension and the road/home game in England. NFL BS. Lets see how many start crying then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 His suspension will very likely cost us at least one loss. Tough to replace your best corner in a pass happy league. Im standing firm, I don't care if its politically correct, this punishes the fans. Its only 16 games and one loss is way to big a price. The player should pay a huge fine and that's it. Oh by the way: This idea that everyone that gets a DUI loses their job, is a story with little reality. Most do not lose their jobs. The legal costs and insurance costs are usually a huge wake up call. Maybe repeat offenders lose their jobs buy even that is without proof. I know the NFL wont change but I can still complain. There are likely two losses between the Smith suspension and the road/home game in England. NFL BS. Lets see how many start crying then. You never know, Fan. Fleming or Gaines might be so good for a game or two that Smith won't even get his job back right away. It will be nice to see one or more of those replacements show how good they are in a game situation. Also, we re-signed Parker for a reason. This is one of those reasons. Another good thing is that this episode might reduce his free agent value so much next year, that we will be able to retain him. Sometimes it is good to think above and beyond. A fifth good point is that it takes more than one guy to lose a ballgame. We might be playing a team without a great receiver, a team that has to run and might be stopped cold by DJ. Usually games turn on a field goal or a penalty. Maybe the opposition will have an injured guy, too. A guy who drinks and drives, jeopardizing the public needs to pay a price beyond a public fine. He could kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWil 30 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 This idea that everyone that gets a DUI loses their job, is a story with little reality. Most do not lose their jobs. The legal costs and insurance costs are usually a huge wake up call. Maybe repeat offenders lose their jobs buy even that is without proof. I wouldn't want to work for a company that wouldn't fire someone immediately after a DUI. I know I would be fired immediately if I got one. This is just my opinion, but I view a DUI as attempted murder and I am being 100% serious on that. Obviously I know the difference, but I don't think a DUI is a laughing matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I wouldn't want to work for a company that wouldn't fire someone immediately after a DUI. I know I would be fired immediately if I got one. This is just my opinion, but I view a DUI as attempted murder and I am being 100% serious on that. Obviously I know the difference, but I don't think a DUI is a laughing matter. But, but, but it's a game, how could anything be more important? Just like the customer's always right, it's all about the fans! (Sarcasm, obviously.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Attempted murder? Damn. I guess you would have to conclude that texting or eating or putting on makeup or driving tired is attempted murder also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWil 30 Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Attempted murder? Damn. I guess you would have to conclude that texting or eating or putting on makeup or driving tired is attempted murder also. Has more so to do with the punishment. Start charging DUI's like an attempted murder charge. I would hope that would stop people from doing it. Probably not but I just have 0 tolerance for these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Has more so to do with the punishment. Start charging DUI's like an attempted murder charge. I would hope that would stop people from doing it. Probably not but I just have 0 tolerance for these things. Oh, I see what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 It would be better to think of it as negligent homicide. "Murder" implies an intent to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 And that someone died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 And that someone died. As a guy who served as a deputy coroner in the late 80's and early 90's, I can tell you with no uncertainty that the death of a human being at the hands of another human being is called "homicide". If it is at the hands of himself or herself intentionally it is called "suicide." If unintentional, it is called "accident." If it is at the hand of neither another person nor the victim, it is ruled "natural." Those are the only four categories except for "undetermined," where none of the other four can be determined with certainty. "Murder" is a legal definition in which a homicide is considered intentional and is pursued or prosecuted in a criminal court. If it is unintentional but negligent, it is considered "negligent homicide," and can be sued for in a civil court. Killing someone accidentally because of being intoxicated while driving, which is breaking a traffic law, is called a "negligent homicide'. Even though somebody dies in any of these circumstances, and even though I agree with your anger at such an outcome, I just thought I would clarify things. It is not intended to justify anything or recommend what the NFL should do or has a right to, do. Capiche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAUI 4,758 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Killing someone accidentally because of being intoxicated while driving, which is breaking a traffic law, is called a "negligent homicide'. Even though somebody dies in any of these circumstances, and even though I agree with your anger at such an outcome, I just thought I would clarify things. It is not intended to justify anything or recommend what the NFL should do or has a right to, do. Capiche? Not meaning to assume anybody's intent, but I think Die Hard's point is that if no one was killed, then it is neither murder nor negligent homicide.., At least that's the way I read it.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 damn Bil..thanks for that.. you really are worth having around// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not meaning to assume anybody's intent, but I think Die Hard's point is that if no one was killed, then it is neither murder nor negligent homicide.., At least that's the way I read it.., Not meaning to assume anybody's intent, but I think Die Hard's point is that if no one was killed, then it is neither murder nor negligent homicide.., At least that's the way I read it.., Then I misinterpreted. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 damn Bil..thanks for that.. you really are worth having around// You need to talk to my wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ... although we go back over a decade..I suppose your wife has grown tired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ... although we go back over a decade..I suppose your wife has grown tired... Yeah. She has to hang around me all the time. That makes even me tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAUI 4,758 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Then I misinterpreted. Sorry about that. I'm here to help.., Good point about the definitions.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm here to help.., Thank God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Then I misinterpreted. Sorry about that. Yep. What West said is what I meant. Just saying in this particular case, no one was killed. Not condoning drinking and driving at all, just saying it wouldn't be one of those charges. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yep. What West said is what I meant. Just saying in this particular case, no one was killed. Not condoning drinking and driving at all, just saying it wouldn't be one of those charges. Sorry for the confusion. I get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yep. What West said is what I meant. Just saying in this particular case, no one was killed. Not condoning drinking and driving at all, just saying it wouldn't be one of those charges. Sorry for the confusion. Then obviously just and fair punishment from the NFL lies somewhere between no suspension and a lifetime ban (with the possibility of reinstatement). I understand that part of the issue with the NFL's practice of suspending players for violating the league's Code of Conduct is that it serves as a form of double jeopardy and of being punished by two different entities for the same transgression. With that said, it's not unfair that NFL players are subject to such scrutiny: These players have a huge impact on today's youth, especially because of the pervasiveness of social media. None of these players have a "right" to play in the NFL. It is certainly a privilege, and one subject to meeting certain conditions, including compliance with a league-imposed Code of Conduct. With all of that said, whenever the league deals a mere slap on the wrist for an action that can potentially cost one or more people their bodily soundness or even their life, it is a slap in the face to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 And it's like West said, they signed up for it. They can afford a taxi. No sympathy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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