FANATIC 852 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Im reading Denver has issues? Your take? Which line is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I just looked at their roster. They have nothing at Center. The Broncos made a trade for a Center from Baltimore, who was rated the worst in the league last year. They drafted Max Garcia. Either way, Poe should have his way, and that is bad news for Manning. Clady is pretty good at LT, but they have a new RT this year. It will probably be Chris Clark, and he is awful. Rookie Ty Sambrailo could start, but either way, Justin Houston is going to have a field day. Louis Vasquez is a good player at RG. At LG, they have Shelley Smith, who used to play for Miami. Denver plays Baltimore at home before coming to KC on a short week. Baltimore is not nearly as strong on defense, but they still have Jernigan, and Suggs, who should give Denver fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rich Elden Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 To me, the wildcard is Kush. If he's good enough to push Morse to RG, then the Chiefs should have a very good line. Plenty of depth. But, if Morse starts at center, the Chiefs better have a RG that plays better than last year. We may have that, I don't know. The preseason will be facinating. If the OL is substantially improved, the Chiefs have as good a shot as anyone to win the division. The defense is lights out and the skill players on offense are now worthy of Reid's playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It would really help if the Chiefs got Justin Houston signed to a long term deal. It is not an absolute necessity, but it would clear some cap room. The Chiefs will save because the first year of his contract could be configured so that the cap number would be around $4-5 Million. This, and a few other moves would create $8 to $10 M. That would be enough to upgrade on the offensive line. One guy I believe could help would be Chris Meyers, who would provide veteran leadership, and the ability to play Center in case Kush isn't as billed, and Morse isn't ready. Jake Long is still hanging out there. After two ACL injuries, he is not going to demand much. The Chiefs may not be done. A lot depends upon what happens the next few weeks, especially in the dealings with Justin Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Manning is pretty good at getting rid of it quick. They should be OK. I think we will be better on Oline and WR, but still pretty weak at those positions. The Defense will be fun to watch. I can't wait to see that unit smack people in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Agree with DieHard. Manning doesn't need as much time as ordinary QBs and their line play won't stop him that much. The real question is whether Manning is the guy who played early last season or the one who played the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I am really curious about that. I am hoping he were seeing the beginning of the end, but it may have just been the leg injuries. I love the guy and respect his legand, but damn. Enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 KC's secondary has improved over the past three seasons. It should be better than last year, and it was pretty good then. Dorsey has done a good job making those changes that can affect how they play Denver. They have quick twitch cover guys, who can blanket Denver's receivers. Poe and Bailey can get in the face of the QB, and make it difficult to step up. Just because Manning has beat the Chiefs before does not mean it has to be that way. I think it will change this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 If Denver is reaching for starters then depth is also an issue. I don't care how fast Manning dumps off. If he does not have time to throw downfield then Denver has a problem. Old not mobile QB. Teams will stack the line and that may also disrupt their running game. Dink and Dunk with no deep threat could spell lots of QB pressure and a injury plagued season for Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tomahawkchop Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Clady's now out for all of 2015 with an ACL tear. Bad news for Donkey's... Denver is going to have a tough time assembling a competent and consistent O-line with what they currently have on the roster. They'll likely be picking up bargain basement FA cuts as the season approaches. Tamba and Justin should be licking their chops right about now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Denver Signed our cast off Harris. The title of this thread is whos line is better not how will it affect Manning. Well this will surely give KC the better line and Manning something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eraser Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Clady tore his ACL and is out for the entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ev 332 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Problem is I would still take Manning and their o-line over ours. Manning makes players around him better...let's not forget we haven't play a single game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Center - Matt Paradis - Second year. Not athletic. Decent technique. Slow, and not terribly strong. 6th round. - Max Garcia - Rookie. Slow, plodder. Works hard. Mauler. Stiff. 4th round. - Gino Gradkowski - Vet. from Ravens. PFF rated worst Center. 4th round. Guard - Andre Davis - UDFA 2015 - Shelly Smith - Vet. from Miami. Left Guard. Not good enough to start in Miami. - Ben Garland - UDFA 2010. Never started. Played in 8 games. - Louis Vasquez - Right Guard. Starter. Top 100 player. - Ben Garland - UDFA 2010. Played in 8 games. No starts. Tackle - Chris Clark - Right Tackle, but will move to Left Tackle. Got beat badly by Tamba. - Ryan Clady - Left Tackle. Out for the season. - Ty Sambrailo - 2nd round 2015. Tall, but short arms. Weak. Soft hands. Project. - Dilon Day - Priority UDFA 2015 - Michael Schofield - 3rd round 2014. Never played in a game. Right Tackle. Good run blocker - Ryan Harris - 3rd round 2007. Journeyman. Not good since hurt back. Bolded players are likely starters. The Broncos have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhitter 1,424 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 We can throw out all the "ifs" and "buts" and speculate all day...but I certainly couldn't tell you which offensive line will be better and if you were honest, you would say the same. We know Manning has a quick release. He got sacked 17 times last year compared to Alex Smith's 45 times. And the previous year when they lost Clady to microfracture surgery everyone predicted Manning was going to get buried. He got sacked all of 18 times in 2013. Not a lot of difference. Where it might affect Denver most is in the running game. But as far as getting to Manning and taking advantage....you'll have to show me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 We can throw out all the "ifs" and "buts" and speculate all day...but I certainly couldn't tell you which offensive line will be better and if you were honest, you would say the same. We know Manning has a quick release. He got sacked 17 times last year compared to Alex Smith's 45 times. And the previous year when they lost Clady to microfracture surgery everyone predicted Manning was going to get buried. He got sacked all of 18 times in 2013. Not a lot of difference. Where it might affect Denver most is in the running game. But as far as getting to Manning and taking advantage....you'll have to show me. You attribute much credit to Manning when in fact he didn't have to take sacks with a funky 2013 offensive line when he had the combination of Demaryius Thomas, a healthy Wes Welker, Julius Thomas, and Eric Decker running routes for him. That squad got separation underneath very quickly. Who was getting separation underneath in 2014 when Smith's line was funky? __________? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhitter 1,424 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 You attribute much credit to Manning when in fact he didn't have to take sacks with a funky 2013 offensive line when he had the combination of Demaryius Thomas, a healthy Wes Welker, Julius Thomas, and Eric Decker running routes for him. That squad got separation underneath very quickly. Who was getting separation underneath in 2014 when Smith's line was funky? __________? DAT and Charles are just as fast as any of those guys. What is Kelce? Chopped liver? The point I was making is you could line up five guys off the street and Manning is going to get the ball out fast. They have thrived on those bubble screens, slants and crossing routes. So even a Clady-less Oline is still not going to cause Manning any lost sleep. Whose fault is it that the Chiefs had the least productive WR group in history? I think its their own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 DAT and Charles are just as fast as any of those guys. What is Kelce? Chopped liver? The point I was making is you could line up five guys off the street and Manning is going to get the ball out fast. They have thrived on those bubble screens, slants and crossing routes. So even a Clady-less Oline is still not going to cause Manning any lost sleep. Whose fault is it that the Chiefs had the least productive WR group in history? I think its their own fault. But De'Anthony Thomas and Jamaal Charles aren't route runners (you do understand that being a route runner can be more important than "fast", right?). I'm not really sure that Travis Kelce alone (who wasn't on the field for a lot of plays) constitutes a whole receiver corps, and certainly not something that compares to the entire squad that the Broncos fielded in 2013. Peyton Manning never threw to five street-quality guys and was successful. Ever. The Colts invested heavily in quality receivers for as long as they had Manning, and the Broncos have done the same. You are correct that the responsibility to obtain quality wide receivers and linemen rests on the Chiefs, but let's not deify Manning in the process. Once you see Manning as you should see him, and not like the NFL version of Chuck Norris, Alex Smith compares very favorably (not better, but he's not light years behind Manning either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Manning's line was never this bad. Their WRs are not as good. Our defensive line should be better. Our secondary seems to be improved. I think it gives the Chiefs a shot. Manning was most successful when Denver had a running game. Monte Ball is very good. Hillman is a decent back. C J Anderson can get some tough yards. However, the Chiefs were without D Johnson, and DeVito. If these guys are truly back, then it will be tougher to run against. Protection can only hold so long, and if Manning has to throw more, he is going to be more susceptible to getting pressure. Latimore doesn't scare me. Thomas is tough, but the Chiefs will keep Sean Smith on him. Sanders is quick, but Philip Gaines is much better this season. Then you add Nelson, Parker, Hussain, and Peters. It could be a test for Manning to find anyone open. The biggest loss for Denver may have been Julius Thomas. Heuermann was supposed to be their next great TE, but he is hardly a match for Thomas, and is out for the season with an injury. Owen Daniels or Virgil Green do not strike fear in the defense. It will not be easy, but I think the Chiefs have an excellent chance of beating the Broncos at home, and maybe at Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106051/cladys-injury-adds-to-broncos-offensive-line-shuffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Clady is a HUGE loss for the Broncos.... w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dhitter Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Peyton Manning never threw to five street-quality guys and was successful. Ever. The Colts invested heavily in quality receivers for as long as they had Manning, and the Broncos have done the same. Actually I was referring to 5 offensive linemen...not receivers. But okay. My contention is that even with a depleted line Manning gets the ball off quick and will avoid sacks. They will bubble screen, slant and crossing route teams to death. Only those defenses equipped to handle it will have a chance to beat Denver. So far KC has not done that well. But you seem to want to make it more about the receiving corps. Guess you need to "set me straight". Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 We can throw out all the "ifs" and "buts" and speculate all day...but I certainly couldn't tell you which offensive line will be better and if you were honest, you would say the same. We know Manning has a quick release. He got sacked 17 times last year compared to Alex Smith's 45 times. And the previous year when they lost Clady to microfracture surgery everyone predicted Manning was going to get buried. He got sacked all of 18 times in 2013. Not a lot of difference. Where it might affect Denver most is in the running game. But as far as getting to Manning and taking advantage....you'll have to show me. You attribute much credit to Manning when in fact he didn't have to take sacks with a funky 2013 offensive line when he had the combination of Demaryius Thomas, a healthy Wes Welker, Julius Thomas, and Eric Decker running routes for him. That squad got separation underneath very quickly. Who was getting separation underneath in 2014 when Smith's line was funky? __________? DAT and Charles are just as fast as any of those guys. What is Kelce? Chopped liver? The point I was making is you could line up five guys off the street and Manning is going to get the ball out fast. They have thrived on those bubble screens, slants and crossing routes. So even a Clady-less Oline is still not going to cause Manning any lost sleep. Whose fault is it that the Chiefs had the least productive WR group in history? I think its their own fault. But De'Anthony Thomas and Jamaal Charles aren't route runners (you do understand that being a route runner can be more important than "fast", right?). I'm not really sure that Travis Kelce alone (who wasn't on the field for a lot of plays) constitutes a whole receiver corps, and certainly not something that compares to the entire squad that the Broncos fielded in 2013. Peyton Manning never threw to five street-quality guys and was successful. Ever. The Colts invested heavily in quality receivers for as long as they had Manning, and the Broncos have done the same. You are correct that the responsibility to obtain quality wide receivers and linemen rests on the Chiefs, but let's not deify Manning in the process. Once you see Manning as you should see him, and not like the NFL version of Chuck Norris, Alex Smith compares very favorably (not better, but he's not light years behind Manning either). Actually I was referring to 5 offensive linemen...not receivers. But okay. My contention is that even with a depleted line Manning gets the ball off quick and will avoid sacks. They will bubble screen, slant and crossing route teams to death. Only those defenses equipped to handle it will have a chance to beat Denver. So far KC has not done that well. But you seem to want to make it more about the receiving corps. Guess you need to "set me straight". Thank you. Take your pick, but you talked about both the receiver corps and the linemen. My point was that an elite quarterback can make a street crew of linemen work for him if he has a quality receiver corps, or he can make a street crew of receivers work for him if he has time in the pocket. Manning has almost always had one if not both. Smith has never had both, and often had neither. Once you made your sarcastic retort about a rookie runningback and Jamaal Charles with the implication being that they were some sort of significant speedsters tearing through secondaries, I had had enough. Alex Smith had nothing to work with last year. It's already well documented. There's no need to pretend that anyone else in the league that is highly regarded as a quarterback had anything close to as little to work with as Smith had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 So some here seem to think that if you had traded our 2014 oline to Denver that Manning would have got the same results? He must not need time to throw downfield? He is not as mobile as Smith but that does not matter because he releases the ball quicker so he would not take more hits and get injured more? To some Manning really is SUPERMAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 No doubt he would have been in trouble with our line last year. He has a quick release, but he still needs protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.