Sean Smith suspended Three Games

[KCSLC2008 606]

Nothing to gain and everything to lose. What an idiot. NOw instead of the start of the season we will have the press focus on this crap.

 

In a statement, Roger Goodell confirmed the NFL will appeal Judge Richard Berman's decision to nullify Tom Brady's four-game suspension.

Related: Tom Brady

This would be great. The appeal could put an injunction for the first game and therefore Brady plays against the Steelers and hurts their wild-card chances and then the appeals court lowers his suspension to three games and that helps our second seed prospects. I say three, not four, games because I want him to beat the Colts.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

IMO big mistake on the judges side. This was not a legal case like robbery or murder but an internal business issue. What he has done was open the door to a big problem and not just for the NFL.

 

Let's say a ball player comes to Colorado or Washington and smokes pot, it's legal in those states. So now the NFL will have to spend it's time in court versus putting a good product on the field. Cost of NFL shit will go up to pay for all the court cases.

 

The players agreed to the new CBA and part of that was giving Goodell complete control over these matters.

[Bilyous2 884]

Suspended 2 games for the DUI, 1 additional game because he hit a pole....

 

A DUI is one thing, but hitting another person just because of their nationality is unacceptable.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

IMO big mistake on the judges side. This was not a legal case like robbery or murder but an internal business issue. What he has done was open the door to a big problem and not just for the NFL.

Let's say a ball player comes to Colorado or Washington and smokes pot, it's legal in those states. So now the NFL will have to spend it's time in court versus putting a good product on the field. Cost of NFL shit will go up to pay for all the court cases.

The players agreed to the new CBA and part of that was giving Goodell complete control over these matters.

This is so absurd I'm not even sure why I am responding, but...

 

The PA gave the commissioner the right to punish under just and impartial ruling.

 

What part of hiring a pro league investigator, said guy writes a totally flawed report, the league conspiring to have its head attorney help edit the report, make said guy not available for questioning over it during the internal appeal and to give no notice for said punishment.

 

They had a bad case and tried to punish him under guidelines that does not exist.

 

If Goodell failed to distribute the pee test properly and issued a year long first time suspension, you would have a point.

[KCSLC2008 606]

IMO big mistake on the judges side. This was not a legal case like robbery or murder but an internal business issue. What he has done was open the door to a big problem and not just for the NFL.

 

Let's say a ball player comes to Colorado or Washington and smokes pot, it's legal in those states. So now the NFL will have to spend it's time in court versus putting a good product on the field. Cost of NFL shit will go up to pay for all the court cases.

 

The players agreed to the new CBA and part of that was giving Goodell complete control over these matters.

Or they could decide not to suspend them for that. I'm not pro-marijuana, I'm just talking about prioritizing things. I feel they could still have their way in domestic cases if there is a conviction and in DUIs. They would, of course, have to have consistent punishment for it. While I don't think there should be decision by players on whether to follow the rule based on how long the punishment is, it would get rid of all the media arguments.

 

To be honest, I'm a bit tired of it because I am a bit bullish on punishment. I say if you do the crime, you get whatever comes. But I realize that there are many who don't like that type of thinking and I would rather have no distractions. So just give it two games for this, four for that, half a season for this, and a whole year for that, etc. There would have to be some good definitions and flexibility in it because there are so many things people can do wrong that you can't possibly spell out separately. Like tampering with equipment versus deflating a football.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

This is so absurd I'm not even sure why I am responding, but...

 

The PA gave the commissioner the right to punish under just and impartial ruling.

 

What part of hiring a pro league investigator, said guy writes a totally flawed report, the league conspiring to have its head attorney help edit the report, make said guy not available for questioning over it during the internal appeal and to give no notice for said punishment.

 

They had a bad case and tried to punish him under guidelines that does not exist.

 

If Goodell failed to distribute the pee test properly and issued a year long first time suspension, you would have a point.

You're right you probably shouldn't have responded.

 

I assume this is your opinion and we all know about them. Keep believing what you want about Goodell and the NFL in general but Brady's suspension should have been upheld either in its entirety or at least a portion of it. If for no other reason lack of cooperation and destroying evidence. Yes, that is my assumption, see it does not make you or mr right. OJ was found innocent also, just because a judge says so it doesn't mean its right.

 

Edit: Prior to Ray Rice knocking his girl friend out in the elevator there wasn't an NFL precedent for that either. Should he have had his suspension nullified as well? What about AP, I am sure there wasn't anything in the NFL books about his type of case either.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

You seem really salty.

 

Brady has zero obligation to comply with the investigation or to hand over any property. None.

 

They tried to use faulty logic to nail him on the deflating and they failed. Science will trump the NFL's theorycrafting 100% of the time.

 

They tried to nail him on not cooperating, when he has zero reason to do so and it got slapped down in court and rightfully so.

 

Goodell is such a joke that his old boss didn't hesitate to rule against him in a prior case with better evidence.

 

The case being tossed really didn't have anything to do with guilt or not. It got thrown away because the league presented such a poor case that the judge really had no choice but to vacate the ruling.

 

He is probably the worst commissioner in sports.

 

The NFL looks even more stupid because they could of had their precious suspension, although shortened, but refused to accept any actual settlement.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

I like crotchety over salty but either works.

 

The players gave Goodell the power to do what he felt was right in regards to disciplinary issues. If they didn't feel he could do it they should never had agreed to the CBA. They looked at the $$ and not the entire deal, thus shame on them. Now the NFL will build a list of fines and penalties for everything and don't be surprised if they all increase just to prove a point. No more 1 game first offense, now it's 3. No more 3 games for a second offense now it's 6, oh and a third offense is now a season long or indefinite suspension based on the offense. Hey as long as it is written down and equal for everyone it's all good.

 

As far as worst commissioner goes I don't think ownership and most of the players are saying that since he has put more money in their pockets then any other commissioner in any other sports.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

You keep saying the NFLPA gave him the right to do whatever he wants and it's wrong every time you say it.

 

Multiple arbitrators have also disagreed with that notion. Multiple judges and his former boss don't agree that Goodell can do whatever he wants. Want to know why? Because he has to act within reason.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Define reason.

[FANATIC 852]

On Thursday morning Judge Richard Berman vacated Tom Brady's four-game suspension in a 40-page ruling that stunned the NFL world and set the Patriots up nicely for 2015.

THE LATEST FROM SPORTSLINE
What Brady ruling means for Patriots, Week 1, Vegas
In his ruling, Berman didn't hold back with his criticism of the NFL, citing a previous lawsuit in stating that NFL commissioner essentially invented his "own brand of justice."

Berman cited the "law of the shop" in the NFL to give players advance notice of "prohibited conduct and of potential discipline" and pointed out that the NFL did not do that

"Because there was no notice of a four-game suspension in the circumstances presented here, Commissioner Goodell may be said to have 'dispense[d] his own brand of industrial justice,'" Berman wrote.

As we pointed out yesterday (via the help of labor attorney Tom Gies, a partner at Crowell & Moring), the biggest argument for Brady winning his case against the NFL was "a lack of notice."

 

 

Like I said. Dictatorship.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

So lets put a fine and suspension on the books for a player who carries a concealed weapon on to the playing field of $10,000 and 2 games. If that said player shoots another player on the field we will fine them $50,000 and 6 games. If the player that was shot dies then the shooting player will be suspended until 1 day after their release from jail.

 

You see how silly it is to try and write rules in the NFL for every possible scenario. Who actually thought a QB would deflate or be a part of deflating a ball to begin with? That is why you didn't have a sitting precedent.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Define reason.

Has to follow precedent and guidelines set in the CBA. That provision doesn't allow Goodell to wipe his ass with the CBA.

 

He tried to punish Brady like he violated the PED policy with a rule that doesn't apply to players. The terms of punishments is also suppose to be spelled out for them, which didn't happen here.

 

Goodell makes this shit up as he goes along.

 

I mean tell me in what universe should a plater get a longer suspension for being generally aware of footballs being deflated than a guy that beat his fiancee in an elevator? Ray Rice got 2 games until the league buckled under pressure.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

How does beating your fiance take away from the integrity of the game? It's despicable and he should have spent jail time but really how does affect the game.

 

If you and I place bets on NFL games at Vegas it's legal but if a player would he would be hammered. Why's that, because he could affect the out come of the game to produce a larger pay out for himself. Same here Ray Rice did nothing to affect the play on the field Brady may have.

 

Personally I believe this discussion needs to be moved elsewhere since it stopped being Chiefs related many posts ago.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Being a woman beater tarnishes the leagues image. Domestic abuse should absolutely be more severe than integrity.

 

He was being punished for not cooperatingwith an investigation, which he had no reason to.

 

This is a lot more simple than you're making it out to be really. The CBA doesn't give Goodell authority to issue a suspension in this case so it was thrown out.

[eraser 722]

All Goodell has to do is call the NSA and get the phone records.

Exactly right. Goodell cannot require a person to surrender personal phone information. He is not above the law. Goodell is an overbearing idiot. He had absolutely zero credibility on this issue. Brady was right to fight it. I am not a Brady fan, but those who could not see this coming are not willing to look at employee rights. The fact Goodell even asked for that information is so far above the pale it boggles the mind. 

 

Goodell should be removed from his position. He is an idiot. 

[kcchiefs63 3]

So since the CBA doesn't cover cheating, and yes if it is a rule and you circumvent it, it is cheating, then the commissioner of the league has no authority to dole out any sort of punishment? Cool! so whats to keep them from breaking any rule not covered in the CBA? Basically what this judge did, was so if you are the golden boy of the NFL, the rules do NOT apply to you. Sorry, cheating is cheating and should be addressed. But this judge says the cheating doesn't matter, all that matters is Goodell had no authority to issue any punishment. If Goodell has no authority, what is the purpose of having a commissioner? This wouldnt be as bad, if the Patriots didnt cheat every time they turn around, and then when they try to dole out a suspension, get told they can't because they don't have the authority to do that. My opinion and i know they are like assholes, but as many times as they have been caught, Brady and Belichick should be banned for life and Kraft should be forced to sell the team.  Yes I am salty and and crotchety. I friggin hate cheaters, no matter the severity of it, or if it even matters in the outcome of the game. Any type of cheating is to gain an unfair advantage. Air pressure is and was at the time a rule, they broke the rule. It baffles me how the integrity of the game was not in the judges scope of reasoning, but lets not taint the golden boy was.

[Bilyous2 884]

Define reason.

That's unreasonable.  Its like pornography.  You know it when you see it.

[Bilyous2 884]

How does beating your fiance take away from the integrity of the game? It's despicable and he should have spent jail time but really how does affect the game.

 

If you have to ask that, you are not thinking.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

If you have to ask that, you are not thinking.

Not the appearance of players playing the game but the game on the field.

[Bilyous2 884]

Exactly right. Goodell cannot require a person to surrender personal phone information. He is not above the law. Goodell is an overbearing idiot. He had absolutely zero credibility on this issue. Brady was right to fight it. I am not a Brady fan, but those who could not see this coming are not willing to look at employee rights. The fact Goodell even asked for that information is so far above the pale it boggles the mind. 

 

Goodell should be removed from his position. He is an idiot. 

I agree he is without redeeming social value.  But all this discussion assumes that NFL football is some kind of democracy.  It is not. It is a business association.  Rules are made by the association to serve the business interests of the member businesses.  Protecting the confidence of the fans in the game is the prime directive.  To do otherwise threatens the selling of tickets and, thus, the viability of all the businesses in the association. It seems pretty simple to me. If it even APPEARS that a team is cheating, the fans have to be sure that it will not be tolerated. It isn't a matter of evidentiary or judicial review.  It is a matter of  confidence by consumers of the product.

[Bilyous2 884]

Not the appearance of players playing the game but the game on the field.

I see.  True. But my post above explains (I think) what I was referring to.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

So since the CBA doesn't cover cheating, and yes if it is a rule and you circumvent it, it is cheating, then the commissioner of the league has no authority to dole out any sort of punishment? Cool! so whats to keep them from breaking any rule not covered in the CBA? Basically what this judge did, was so if you are the golden boy of the NFL, the rules do NOT apply to you. Sorry, cheating is cheating and should be addressed. But this judge says the cheating doesn't matter, all that matters is Goodell had no authority to issue any punishment. If Goodell has no authority, what is the purpose of having a commissioner? This wouldnt be as bad, if the Patriots didnt cheat every time they turn around, and then when they try to dole out a suspension, get told they can't because they don't have the authority to do that. My opinion and i know they are like assholes, but as many times as they have been caught, Brady and Belichick should be banned for life and Kraft should be forced to sell the team.  Yes I am salty and and crotchety. I friggin hate cheaters, no matter the severity of it, or if it even matters in the outcome of the game. Any type of cheating is to gain an unfair advantage. Air pressure is and was at the time a rule, they broke the rule. It baffles me how the integrity of the game was not in the judges scope of reasoning, but lets not taint the golden boy was.

Uh, what they allegedly did is actually covered in the CBA. Equipment tampering is a baseline fine of 25k.

 

The case was pretty weak. They had no idea about gas law or a reasonable explanation for why the Colts balls averaged about the same psi.

 

Goodell was a long standing attorney and should understand what general obligation he has with his power and post.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Uh, what they allegedly did is actually covered in the CBA. Equipment tampering is a baseline fine of 25k.

 

The case was pretty weak. They had no idea about gas law or a reasonable explanation for why the Colts balls averaged about the same psi.

 

Goodell was a long standing attorney and should understand what general obligation he has with his power and post.

If I felt there was that much of an advantage to a lower deflated ball, now knowing that it's only 25,000, only for teams, and integrity of the game isn't hurt by it, I would have them do it every game and foot the bill. Especially when the public thinks it makes no difference.

 

No, I'm not saying he did it, just that the penalty prescribed is comically low and only for teams?

[eraser 722]

The argument was if since employment is not a democracy, Goodell can do whatever he likes. Well, yes and no. Yes, employment is not a democracy. NO, he cannot do anything he likes. First, there is a company policy, which in this case is covered by the CBA. When a company writes a company policy they have to abide by it, and the spirit of the company policy. 

 

Goodell did not abide by the CBA, let alone by the spirit of the agreement. His decisions have been arbitrary, and as such, fall outside of what he can do. He can decide what punishment can be delivered according to the CBA, but it must fit the crime, and it must be within the spirit of the guidelines if it is to stand water. As was specified, this was a matter for teams, and yet Goodell applied it arbitrarily to a player. Also, he did so without prior warning, and the punishment did not appear to fit the crime. 

 

Can Goodell require a person to hand over his personal phone, and remove information, such as text messages from it? No. It is very doubtful the league's CBA covered such things. Even if it did, personal communications between parties outside of business are private. For instance, I could speak to my wife about my employer, and as long as that conversation did not become public, my employer cannot do anything about it. I can say anything I like in that case. If I did so over a personal phone, they would not have a right to the information. If I spoke to a fellow employee on my phone own phone, I would not have to give them this information either. The information I communicated in private on my own phone is not their business. Furthermore, they can ask, but there is no reason they should expect me to hand it over. They cannot take it without my permission. 

 

The whole case, even had it not been covered under the CBA, was based on hearsay information. Without the texts, there is no way to prove intent. They had no rights to the texts. Punishing someone over failure to turn over personally held communication is outside employment policy, and NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. 

 

Goodell is a liberal lawyer who thinks individual rights do not matter. He thinks he trumps those rights. The judge was right to blister him for this. He is an idiot. This is what happens when people think they can run roughshod over personal rights. The individual does stand over the company, and the country. No, it is not a democracy, but the company, nor the government should be able to run over our rights as individuals. HE NEEDED A SMACK  DOWN for a long time, and it is good to see him get it. I hope more of this is forthcoming. 

 

Whether liberal or conservative, we need to stand up to authoritarians. We need to just say no, and when they do not listen, we need to have the will to take action. Goodell needs to be removed from his position. I would say this if he were a conservative authoritarian or a liberal authoritarian. We as a people need to grow a set of balls and stand up to the bully.