Eric Fisher

[wilkie 1,518]

The source for an estimate on Eric Fisher's injury who said it would be 2 weeks was not his doctors or his trainers but ESPN who claimed inside information.   The only thing the Chiefs will say is his injury recovery is day to day.

 

We being fans want to hurry up the process of course. So we would Fisher to be ready by opening day to take on Watt and Wilfork and company and of course be ready for the Bronco game.

 

But are we sacrificing our wants and needs for the greater picture of how will starting him too early effect his performance down the line when the bulk of the season is underway?

 

After Fisher is cleared to play,  he still has to get back into football shape.

 

So the question is a hypothetical.   Do we play Fisher on opening day if he is cleared to play risking additional injury or do we rest him to insure we can use him for the rest of the season?

 

Your thoughts.

[jetlord 10,209]

Wasn't there a report out that Fisher was working out on the sidelines at practice but not participating in scrimmage?  Don't know where I saw it, but that's what I remember.

[kcchief4lif 910]

If he is cleared to play.  BACK IN THE FIRE!!  What else would "cleared to play" mean??

 

Number 1 pick needs to prove his worth.

[KCSLC2008 606]

I'm a little bit torn on this. I would normally say that since we play on Thursday after opening day, I'd rather have them sit week one. But how great would I be with that decision if Smith got injured because of a worse left tackle blocking for?

 

I definitely do not want to see him playing in preseason anymore. I don't care about him getting live practice. I know that makes Smith more vulnerable in preseason games, but maybe he can be more cautious as well. Look for the real play then throwaway if needed. In a real game, he might have to stick in the pocket, but in preseason, it's all about live looks (seeing it live), not necessarily executing if it increases risk of injury.

 

One, it would give the backup some experience in case he is needed later. Two, it would lessen the likelihood of him getting re-injured. Three, he could still get some practice, just not in live play.

[SEMO 6,811]

The source for an estimate on Eric Fisher's injury who said it would be 2 weeks was not his doctors or his trainers but ESPN who claimed inside information.   The only thing the Chiefs will say is his injury recovery is day to day.

 

We being fans want to hurry up the process of course. So we would Fisher to be ready by opening day to take on Watt and Wilfork and company and of course be ready for the Bronco game.

 

But are we sacrificing our wants and needs for the greater picture of how will starting him too early effect his performance down the line when the bulk of the season is underway?

 

After Fisher is cleared to play,  he still has to get back into football shape.

 

So the question is a hypothetical.   Do we play Fisher on opening day if he is cleared to play risking additional injury or do we rest him to insure we can use him for the rest of the season?

 

Your thoughts.

If he is cleared to play, then he plays.

[Bilyous2 884]

The source for an estimate on Eric Fisher's injury who said it would be 2 weeks was not his doctors or his trainers but ESPN who claimed inside information.   The only thing the Chiefs will say is his injury recovery is day to day.

 

We being fans want to hurry up the process of course. So we would Fisher to be ready by opening day to take on Watt and Wilfork and company and of course be ready for the Bronco game.

 

But are we sacrificing our wants and needs for the greater picture of how will starting him too early effect his performance down the line when the bulk of the season is underway?

 

After Fisher is cleared to play,  he still has to get back into football shape.

 

So the question is a hypothetical.   Do we play Fisher on opening day if he is cleared to play risking additional injury or do we rest him to insure we can use him for the rest of the season?

 

Your thoughts.

No. He needs to be fully ready.

[Bilyous2 884]

If he is cleared to play, then he plays.

Then what happens if he complains of soreness afterwards, and docs decide he should wait another month?  We sure don't want a chronic problem that inhibits him all year. The docs may say he is OK.  But their OK is different from the player's perception of soreness or pain.

[Calichief 3,016]

No. He needs to be fully ready.

This guy has a lot to prove.

[West 6,713]

-its the Doctor's call.  If he is cleared, he plays.

 

w

[SEMO 6,811]

Then what happens if he complains of soreness afterwards, and docs decide he should wait another month? We sure don't want a chronic problem that inhibits him all year. The docs may say he is OK. But their OK is different from the player's perception of soreness or pain.

The "what ifs" are irrelevant. If he is cleared to play, then he plays.

[Guest Tomahawkchop]

The "what ifs" are irrelevant. If he is cleared to play, then he plays.

Exactly.  These types of decisions are made medically with input from the player on whether they think they can go or not.  If he's cleared by the medical staff and thinks he can go, then he will play period.  Whatever may or may not happen as a result is in the hands of fate.  

[KCSLC2008 606]

-its the Doctor's call. If he is cleared, he plays.

 

w

I agree, but I say if he is cleared to play, sit this preseason game. The next preseason game (third) because it is a dress rehearsal, fine. I'd still prefer sitting out whole preseason but practice earlier.

[Bilyous2 884]

The "what ifs" are irrelevant. If he is cleared to play, then he plays.

Being cleared to play is different from what it used to be.  After a concussion, being cleared to play is a hell of a lot different than it used to be.  Lawsuits change things radically a la Junior Seau.  So, you are basically right about being cleared.  I just think he won't be cleared nearly as quickly as he would have 5 or 10 years ago.  The biggest problem is that teams want to be careful, but only to the length of their player's current contract.  They don't give a shit if their player limps around and can't play half the time after he goes to another team.  And they sure as hell don't care if he needs a hip or knee replacement when he is 60. Basically, the player should should be allowed to determine whether they are ready based on their own perception of readiness without it hurting their roster or contract status. Post injury, there should be a document that the player signs, a kind of waiver, that states that he feels 100% ready to play.  Remember, team doctors STILL WORK FOR THE TEAM, not for the player.

[wilkie 1,518]

I agree with Bil. If Fisher is not football ready whether doc says cleared or not, we should rest him until he is ready. If we put him in too early it can adversely affect his performance going forward.

[jetlord 10,209]

Cleared to practice doesn't mean cleared to play.  Practice can be limited to less stressful impact on Fisher's ankle and he can play when the docs believe the risk of further injury is minimal or gone.  As far as I know, Fisher is practicing but not scrimmaging so far.  The fact that he's even working on the sideline, if that's true, is good news compared to a more severe high ankle sprain.

[oldtimer 8,686]

Grunny  spoke about this and from what I gathered this "sprain" is on his left ankle which if can be considered good is good. he needs his left ankle to  not his right to support himself against the rush.  I only heard bits and pieces but Grunny was certainly making it sound not as bad as it could be.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Being cleared to play is different from what it used to be. After a concussion, being cleared to play is a hell of a lot different than it used to be. Lawsuits change things radically a la Junior Seau. So, you are basically right about being cleared. I just think he won't be cleared nearly as quickly as he would have 5 or 10 years ago. The biggest problem is that teams want to be careful, but only to the length of their player's current contract. They don't give a shit if their player limps around and can't play half the time after he goes to another team. And they sure as hell don't care if he needs a hip or knee replacement when he is 60. Basically, the player should should be allowed to determine whether they are ready based on their own perception of readiness without it hurting their roster or contract status. Post injury, there should be a document that the player signs, a kind of waiver, that states that he feels 100% ready to play. Remember, team doctors STILL WORK FOR THE TEAM, not for the player.

So it was Alex Smith's right to play after his concussion in San Francisco, right?

[eraser 722]

I don't know if we were tougher, or just more stupid back in the days when I played sports. The coach would tell us to stick our foot in the snow when we twisted an ankle. It was what you did back then. It worked. Of course, there was the occasional frost bite, but that only served to toughen you up for the world. 

[Bilyous2 884]

So it was Alex Smith's right to play after his concussion in San Francisco, right?

WTF?  What does that have to do with what I posted?  Weird reasoning.

 

I was talking about a player being cleared by team docs and told to play while the player is still symptomatic, not the other way around.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I don't know if we were tougher, or just more stupid back in the days when I played sports. The coach would tell us to stick our foot in the snow when we twisted an ankle. It was what you did back then. It worked. Of course, there was the occasional frost bite, but that only served to toughen you up for the world.

 

We sure were stupid, but we also weren't as big or fast as players are now.

[Bilyous2 884]

We sure were stupid, but we also weren't as big or fast as players are now.

Or as rich.

[KCSLC2008 606]

WTF? What does that have to do with what I posted? Weird reasoning.

 

I was talking about a player being cleared by team docs and told to play while the player is still symptomatic, not the other way around.

I know I kicked the can a bit farther, but your logic should be able to follow...

 

"Basically, the player should should be allowed to determine whether they are ready based on their own perception of readiness without it hurting their roster or contract status."

 

Smith chose to not push it when he was cleared, under the idea that being the highest rated passer at the time and winning and his readiness. He was cleared but told to play it safe. It hurt his roster/contract status. He excercised the very right you said he should have and lost his job.

 

I know that he lost it due to what his coach thought Kaepernick was capable of that Smith wasn't, but the story was he was cleared and he didn't keep his job when he went on his own perception of readiness. He should have been worried and pushed for it, though I'm not sure if they would listen.

 

You're saying a player should be able to say, "Doc, you cleared me but I don't feel ready" without it affecting his position. Smith said that, though he might have been encouraged to do so, buying evaluation time or guise to switch. I guess, Smith did keep his roster spot and contract, but I assumed the freedom to choose not to play was not just financial risk.

[wilkie 1,518]

You posted above at 3:09 A.M??  Man gets some sleep!

[Bilyous2 884]

I know I kicked the can a bit farther, but your logic should be able to follow...

 

"Basically, the player should should be allowed to determine whether they are ready based on their own perception of readiness without it hurting their roster or contract status."

 

Smith chose to not push it when he was cleared, under the idea that being the highest rated passer at the time and winning and his readiness. He was cleared but told to play it safe. It hurt his roster/contract status. He excercised the very right you said he should have and lost his job.

 

I know that he lost it due to what his coach thought Kaepernick was capable of that Smith wasn't, but the story was he was cleared and he didn't keep his job when he went on his own perception of readiness. He should have been worried and pushed for it, though I'm not sure if they would listen.

 

You're saying a player should be able to say, "Doc, you cleared me but I don't feel ready" without it affecting his position. Smith said that, though he might have been encouraged to do so, buying evaluation time or guise to switch. I guess, Smith did keep his roster spot and contract, but I assumed the freedom to choose not to play was not just financial risk.

[Bilyous2 884]

 

I know I kicked the can a bit farther, but your logic should be able to follow...

 

"Basically, the player should should be allowed to determine whether they are ready based on their own perception of readiness without it hurting their roster or contract status."

 

Smith chose to not push it when he was cleared, under the idea that being the highest rated passer at the time and winning and his readiness. He was cleared but told to play it safe. It hurt his roster/contract status. He excercised the very right you said he should have and lost his job.

 

I know that he lost it due to what his coach thought Kaepernick was capable of that Smith wasn't, but the story was he was cleared and he didn't keep his job when he went on his own perception of readiness. He should have been worried and pushed for it, though I'm not sure if they would listen.

 

You're saying a player should be able to say, "Doc, you cleared me but I don't feel ready" without it affecting his position. Smith said that, though he might have been encouraged to do so, buying evaluation time or guise to switch. I guess, Smith did keep his roster spot and contract, but I assumed the freedom to choose not to play was not just financial risk.

 

I see what you mean. I didn't word that right.  It would work only in one direction, the situation where the team doc says its ok, but the player still objects because of pain or other symptoms.  It seems unlikely to be abused, because players want to play or they wouldn't be in the NFL.  Also, they know that there are guys behind them, who if called upon to play, might turn out to be great and take their job. So, malingering is extremely unlikely.  What I am saying is that pain exists for a reason. It is more sensitive than any imaging technique.  If a player still says he has discomfort after a joint or ligament injury, or has headaches after a head injury,or does not feel mentally sharp, the team should be liable for "clearing" him by general policy, and if still symptomatic, the player should sign a document holding the team not responsible ever, beyond the length of his contract or even his life.  This only makes sense to me.  If pain is suppressed by anti-inflammatory medications or pain meds, then the team should take lifetime responsibilty.  Some steroid injections are made in "depot" form to release slowly over a prolonged period, so these should not be used as they could cover up symptoms while damage is still present.

 

Basically, the team and fan base has an irrefutable bias toward to a player playing, and this often leads to lifetime problems for the player.  There is plenty of bias in a player to deny or hide their symptoms, but that should be on the player, not on the team.