wilkie 1,518 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 YepReally bad team OT but it was fun to watch anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gochiefsgo 380 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Watching the game now and I don't envy the Chiefs personnel guys having to get this roster down to 53! How in hell do you not keep both Hammond and Williams? Do the Chiefs really go into the season with Seven wideouts? There are going to be se tough decisions to make. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Watching the game now and I don't envy the Chiefs personnel guys having to get this roster down to 53! How in hell do you not keep both Hammond and Williams? Do the Chiefs really go into the season with Seven wideouts? There are going to be se tough decisions to make. Sheesh. Avant can go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I'm not a big Ramik Wilson fan. He's a guy that will sit back and let plays come to him and be more read and react. You don't see him bust through the backfield to make plays. He's definitely a lesser player than March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Avant can go Avant adds a lot to the team in the locker room, but you may be right. WR 53 Maclin Wilson Conley Williams Hammond WR Practice Team Cook Brown Luckett WR Cuts Avant Hemingway Smith Washington TE 53 Kelse O'Shaughnessy Taylor TE IR Harris TE Cut Gordon TE Practice Team Schlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Avant adds a lot to the team in the locker room, but you may be right. WR 53 Maclin Wilson Conley Williams Hammond WR Practice Team Cook Brown Luckett WR Cuts Avant Hemingway Smith Washington TE 53 Kelse O'Shaughnessy Taylor TE IR Harris TE Cut Gordon TE Practice Team Schlitz DAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I didn't get to see the game, but would someone please explain to me how Frankie Hammond went from under-performing, game-losing wideout to a must-have necessitating the cut of a guy like Jason Avant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I'm not a big Ramik Wilson fan. He's a guy that will sit back and let plays come to him and be more read and react. You don't see him bust through the backfield to make plays. He's definitely a lesser player than March. I don't see that. I see a guy who has all the tools DJ had at that stage, including the lack of bulk. He will add weight and muscle over the next couple of years, like DJ. Also, right now he has to be careful until he is automatic. I think he will bust through plenty when that time comes. I could be wrong, but...so can you. Later on, I might be singing a different tune. instead of singing "Happy, Happy You're MIne." by The Sheilas, I might be singing, "Goodbye" by Plankman. But I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I didn't get to see the game, but would someone please explain to me how Frankie Hammond went from under-performing, game-losing wideout to a must-have necessitating the cut of a guy like Jason Avant? One word: Special Teams. Including kick returns. Plus he is also apparently learning the many routes. He is showing great hands, as well. Avant could be dealt for a little more depth at TE. He's good, but expendable at an overstocked position. There might be a good young TE from a team that is overstocked there. Remember, PhataL, not only are ST's as important as any other squad, but having a very young, improving team, will get us to a promised land that could last many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I don't see that. I see a guy who has all the tools DJ had at that stage, including the lack of bulk. He will add weight and muscle over the next couple of years, like DJ. Also, right now he has to be careful until he is automatic. I think he will bust through plenty when that time comes. I could be wrong, but...so can you. Later on, I might be singing a different tune. instead of singing "Happy, Happy You're MIne." by The Sheilas, I might be singing, "Goodbye" by Plankman. But I don't think so.It's basically about the same song and dance he did at Georgia. I'm not saying he can't make plays, it's just he's more read and react when he needs to attack the ball if he wants to be a starter in a Bob Sutton Defense. Sure he could change, but right now he's not an ideal guy. Many players change in NFL programs, so it's not like he's a bust. Also Avant has like no value in a trade, nor is he a guy that you should feel pressured to keep on your roster. Andy will probably keep him because he's an Andy guy, but there's enough potential on the roster to send him free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Dorsey must have thought differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Eh what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Dorsey must have thought differently. I agree. Dorsey is not going to expend a draft pick on Wilson if he and his crew hadn't watched hours of tape on him. You can't predict a bust in the NFL, but you surely can predict a "possible" starter, especially Dorsey and crew. And the coaches in the NFL are ten times better than those in college, or they would not have made it to the NFL as coaches. They must have concluded that he can be coached up. All I know is that I can tell he tackles great, he flies to the ball carrier, shoots through gaps, and he is quick as hell. I can see that from my sofa. I even saw him drop quickly back into coverage. I know he is fast enough to get to the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 don't see Andy getting rid of avant..certainly not in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 One word: Special Teams. Including kick returns. Plus he is also apparently learning the many routes. He is showing great hands, as well. Avant could be dealt for a little more depth at TE. He's good, but expendable at an overstocked position. There might be a good young TE from a team that is overstocked there. Remember, PhataL, not only are ST's as important as any other squad, but having a very young, improving team, will get us to a promised land that could last many years. I don't devalue Special Teams, but most of the Chiefs' Special Teams issues last year seemed to stem from coaching, not personnel. I thought that the Chiefs already had return guys in Chris Conley, Knile Davis, and De'Anthony Thomas. Therefore, I want to see the Chiefs keep players that are useful on offense. It's a good thing that it will be hard for the Chiefs to figure out about ten of their 53-man roster spots, but I don't know that Frankie Hammond is really one of those guys. If anyone should be traded, it would be Hammond, not Avant. Avant's capability in the offense isn't one I see continuing years into the future, but if you're going to play the Future Card, I'm going to ask which of these guys you want to go elsewhere by next year to make long-term room for Frankie Hammond: Jeremy Maclin, Albert Wilson, Chris Conley, De'Anthony Thomas, and Fred Williams? Jason Avant would be the guy that leaves next season to make room for a draft pick at receiver in 2016, in which year Jeremy Maclin should be the undisputed leader in the Chiefs' wide receiver squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It's basically about the same song and dance he did at Georgia. I'm not saying he can't make plays, it's just he's more read and react when he needs to attack the ball if he wants to be a starter in a Bob Sutton Defense. Sure he could change, but right now he's not an ideal guy. Many players change in NFL programs, so it's not like he's a bust. Also Avant has like no value in a trade, nor is he a guy that you should feel pressured to keep on your roster. Andy will probably keep him because he's an Andy guy, but there's enough potential on the roster to send him free. Yes, agree on avant.. No thanks. Slow. He's a TE playing WR. Please go with youth. We've had enough of his kind in the last 25 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I don't think you keep a guy who has one year left, if it involves getting rid of a young guy with potential, especially when that older guy isn't either your #1, #2, or #3 receiver. Avant takes up a roster spot for what? 2 or 3 plays this year that one of the other guys might not make due to inexperience? The argument that those few plays would make the difference in playoff spot is much less valid when considering the strength of our defense. Avant could be traded for an extra 4th or 5th round draft choice next offseason, and we would lose nothing significant. We have Maclin, Conley, and Wilson to get 95% of the opportunities. We need 5th and 6th receivers who are the strongest special teams guys. Avant is not that guy. Hammond is. Williams should be the 4th receiver. No matter who Reid "likes" he "likes" winning more. If he "likes" Avant, he can buy him a lobster dinner when ge leaves and meet him in the Bahamas for a deep sea fishing trip next winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I don't devalue Special Teams, but most of the Chiefs' Special Teams issues last year seemed to stem from coaching, not personnel. I thought that the Chiefs already had return guys in Chris Conley, Knile Davis, and De'Anthony Thomas. Therefore, I want to see the Chiefs keep players that are useful on offense. It's a good thing that it will be hard for the Chiefs to figure out about ten of their 53-man roster spots, but I don't know that Frankie Hammond is really one of those guys. If anyone should be traded, it would be Hammond, not Avant. Avant's capability in the offense isn't one I see continuing years into the future, but if you're going to play the Future Card, I'm going to ask which of these guys you want to go elsewhere by next year to make long-term room for Frankie Hammond: Jeremy Maclin, Albert Wilson, Chris Conley, De'Anthony Thomas, and Fred Williams? Jason Avant would be the guy that leaves next season to make room for a draft pick at receiver in 2016, in which year Jeremy Maclin should be the undisputed leader in the Chiefs' wide receiver squad. The only thing I ask special-teams to do is to not fumble the ball and be smart with taking it out of the endzone or fair catching it in the 20. Kicks return for touchdown is great, but I'm so risk-averse I'm just asking for no fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Avant costs the Chiefs a little less than $1,000,000 this year. They will probably keep him although I would prefer Williams. Special teams is more than returning the ball. It's avoiding useless blocking penalties, discipline in maintaining lanes and covering opposing returners, and willingness to bust through blockers. Nothing is more discouraging than having a thirty yard return turn into a negative ten yards due to a stupid block in the back. Returners on special teams are no more important than the other ten guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Smith said that Maclin is the type of receiver where you feel comfortable letting go of the ball. I'm not naming any names, but he's had plenty of receivers who would not fight for the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 The reason Reid would let Avant go is exactly why Smith would make the above statement. Avant has good hands, but there is a reason he didn't play much since we have had him. He is too slow to get good separation, so Smith rarely feels comfortable letting go of the ball to him. As far as fighting for the ball, I have not seen enough targets to Avant to know whether he fights for it or not. I know that Bowe never fought for it. Bowe was willing to bogart a joint, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The reason Reid would let Avant go is exactly why Smith would make the above statement. Avant has good hands, but there is a reason he didn't play much since we have had him. He is too slow to get good separation, so Smith rarely feels comfortable letting go of the ball to him. As far as fighting for the ball, I have not seen enough targets to Avant to know whether he fights for it or not. I know that Bowe never fought for it. Bowe was willing to bogart a joint, though. I thought Avant was the one of the only receivers he was really comfortable with last year. It seemed that right off the bat he was getting a lot of catches and one of the only big shots down the field that were improvised was with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I thought Avant was the one of the only receivers he was really comfortable with last year. It seemed that right off the bat he was getting a lot of catches and one of the only big shots down the field that were improvised was with him. I didn't remember or realize that. That would make a good case for keeping him. I just remember him always being in traffic. He catches well in traffic. It just seemed that he was in traffic more than he should have been. Once Wilson got in there, it seemed to me that Smith preferred Wilson every time. It's all up to the fellows with the tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I didn't remember or realize that. That would make a good case for keeping him. I just remember him always being in traffic. He catches well in traffic. It just seemed that he was in traffic more than he should have been. Once Wilson got in there, it seemed to me that Smith preferred Wilson every time. It's all up to the fellows with the tape. Smith has to throw to someone. I would not say preferred. Avant is not needed. Our young guys have come a LONG WAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Smith has to throw to someone. I would not say preferred. Avant is not needed. Our young guys have come a LONG WAY. Yes, they have. And Maclin has been mentoring them this summer. I'd love for some desperate team to give us a 3rd rounder for him. Even a 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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