Alex Smith lacks...

[Guest RW]

Definition of an elite NFL QB? Mine is simple. A guy who can drive the field in the final 2 minutes to a win. 2d criteria: A guy who can play well from behind on the scoreboard. Sorry folks..that is not Alex.

 

I'm new here, obviously, not looking for fights but wanted to state an opinion.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Definition of an elite NFL QB? Mine is simple. A guy who can drive the field in the final 2 minutes to a win. 2d criteria: A guy who can play well from behind on the scoreboard. Sorry folks..that is not Alex.

 

I'm new here, obviously, not looking for fights but wanted to state an opinion.

 

He's done it before, notably in the playoffs, twice in 4 minutes, but that apparently doesn't matter. He has driven the ball under two minutes to score, as in the San Diego game in 2013 - only to have the Chargers score in under 100 seconds. He scored what should have been the game winner (albeit a RB run) this last game and didn't get the ball back with 2 minutes. He had 36 seconds.

 

Having said that, I don't think anyone has called him elite. Well, maybe one guy, and specifically not me.

[artsy 1,137]

Definition of an elite NFL QB? Mine is simple. A guy who can drive the field in the final 2 minutes to a win. 2d criteria: A guy who can play well from behind on the scoreboard. Sorry folks..that is not Alex.

 

I'm new here, obviously, not looking for fights but wanted to state an opinion.

Welcome!

This is a chiefs board, and it's a free country. Feel free to post whatever you want, whenever you want.

 

Your opinion about AS11 is shared by a few of us buddy. However, I haven't saw too many post claiming AS11 as "Elite". That he is not.

 

IMO, he is serviceable, and can win with a decent oline and good defense. But he has to have both, not just one.He can't carry a team.

 

I'm just wondering when Reid/Dorsey will come around and realize this. He is not A. Rodgers, or PFM, who can diagnose a defense and go through his progressions very quickly, and then throw his receivers open.

 

They need to give the man a solid oline, for us to really see what AS11's potential can really be.Nonetheless, the Denver defense laid out the blueprint for the rest of the teams on our schedule to use against us:

 

1. Play press man coverage, with a single high safety over Macklin

2. Bring the other safety down in the box to help with run, and provide "bracket" coverage on Kelce with a LBer.

3. And lastly, speed rush the hell out of the LT and RT, while stunting the inside DL to confuse LDT and Morse.

 

That leaves AS11 with about 2 seconds to either hit a covered Albert Wilson or check-down to JC.

To me, that about sums up the chiefs passing game in a nutshell....

[West 6,713]

Welcome.

 

 

Smith is a Good QB and can win a SB in KC.

 

w

[DieHard 2,061]

Agree Smith is not elite. I think you have few few elite QBs and they are aging. Hope some you guys b sides Luck develop into that.

[kychief 239]

didn't he drive the team down the field last Thursday?

 

turnovers killed this team..he didn't have the ball again till 34 sec left..we know what happened..

[dhitter 1,424]

Definition of an elite NFL QB? Mine is simple. A guy who can drive the field in the final 2 minutes to a win. 2d criteria: A guy who can play well from behind on the scoreboard. Sorry folks..that is not Alex.

 

I'm new here, obviously, not looking for fights but wanted to state an opinion.

As has been stated...who is saying AS11 is elite? Secondly, does he have to be an elite QB to take the Chiefs to a SB. I think the Chiefs have enough talent to get there. Would have beaten Denver except shot themselves in the foot. Let's see if they can get a win out of these next two road games.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

I fear Smith lacks the ability to throw the deep ball. He struggles at completing a pass of 25+ yards. The only memorable deep ball I can recall him completing was the TD pass to Avery in the playoffs, which is a good play to remember for hope - he'll hit it when it counts

[Bilyous2 884]

Welcome.

 

 

Smith is a Good QB and can win a SB in KC.

 

w

Absolutely.   All he needs is protection against the great pass rushers.  We cannot be putting Jae Reid in charge of stopping Von MIller.  The teams that win a super bowl will have to beat teams that  have monster rushers.  That means Smiths chances depend entirely on the development of the O-line.

[Guest Holmes4six]

What's the alternate choice if not smith? What amazes me is the 3 rookies starting for the pats in the interior of there line. The play calling and formations can help smith. Reid and spread formation specialist Childress better take a look.

[wilkie 1,518]

Did we not mention the importance of a goof offensive line last March?

[PhataLerror 370]

Out of everyone here, I'm probably the highest on Alex Smith.

 

I'm careful about using words like "elite" in connection with Smith because it's the sort of word that ought to be reserved for the very best of something. Smith is not one of the league's top two or three quarterbacks. He's not as consistent as Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. It's safe to say due to mileage, Peyton Manning is no longer "elite".

 

It's hard to know how much of what prevents Smith from being considered "elite" is linked to confidence and circumstance. Any argument in behalf of Smith must factor for offensive supporting cast: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning have played for teams that have invested heavily in their offenses. Smith has not played with a supporting cast of ten anything like the ten that Rodgers, Brady, or Manning have played with or continue to play with. Because each of them have Super Bowl wins and a more lengthy history of winning, even I have to rank Smith as less than any one of these at their prime, but I don't consider the gap between them and Smith to be very wide.

 

Beyond this, the Smith debate has continued ad nauseam with the pro-Smith side confident in Smith's ability to elevate a team according to its talent, and the anti-Smith side determined to deny Smith recognition as a legitimate NFL quarterback on the basis of his accumulated statistics.

 

For some reason, the established stereotype concerning Smith dictates that the good things he has done have never actually happened, or if they happened, it was because of anyone else but Smith.

 

I often wonder what Smith's legacy would be if Kyle Williams hadn't turned the ball over twice in the 2011 NFC Conference Championship, or if the Kansas City defense hadn't coughed up 35 points in 10 minutes and 30 seconds of second-half possessions in the 2013 AFC Wild Card Playoff. Heck, three turnovers not made by Alex Smith this past week ended up being the difference in a game where Smith managed to control the clock and make numerous clutch throws under persistent duress, whereas a win might have been represented as a sort of "passing the torch" moment between Peyton Manning to the new best quarterback of the AFC West. Thanks to a bunch of ill-timed screw-ups by someone not named Alex Smith, the sort of moments that would vindicate Smith, and by extension the pro-Smith camp in this miserable debate, never seem to happen.

[eraser 722]

I thought Smith was going to shock the world, and throw for 4000 yards for the first time in his career. He is on target for another 3400 yard season. I think that is what he is, and no matter who you put out there, that is about all you are going to get from him. I am trying to learn to embrace that fact. He is not a guy who can afford to turn over the ball, and redeem himself. He makes some good plays with his feet, but he is not nearly as clever in the pocket as some others in this league.

 

I look at the attributes, and everything I see says Smith can be an elite QB. He just isn't, and as long as the Chiefs can compensate with a strong defense, and special plays, it may be good enough. Five turnovers, and you can just about call it a day.

[kychief 239]

Absolutely.   All he needs is protection against the great pass rushers.  We cannot be putting Jae Reid in charge of stopping Von MIller.  The teams that win a super bowl will have to beat teams that  have monster rushers.  That means Smiths chances depend entirely on the development of the O-line.

this.

look at how bad Andrew luck looks..a bad o-line can ruin the best QBs..

[oldtimer 8,686]

this.

look at how bad Andrew luck looks..a bad o-line can ruin the best QBs..

 

 

Yep

[PhataLerror 370]

I thought Smith was going to shock the world, and throw for 4000 yards for the first time in his career. He is on target for another 3400 yard season. I think that is what he is, and no matter who you put out there, that is about all you are going to get from him. I am trying to learn to embrace that fact. He is not a guy who can afford to turn over the ball, and redeem himself. He makes some good plays with his feet, but he is not nearly as clever in the pocket as some others in this league.

 

I look at the attributes, and everything I see says Smith can be an elite QB. He just isn't, and as long as the Chiefs can compensate with a strong defense, and special plays, it may be good enough. Five turnovers, and you can just about call it a day.

Did you anticipate a better offensive line going into this season? I did. This line can't be where you thought it would be, and your expectations of Smith should have been adjusted accordingly.

 

You can't throw for 4,000 yards with a separated shoulder/concussion/ruptured spleen.

[qnet 1,150]

I thought Smith was going to shock the world, and throw for 4000 yards for the first time in his career. 

 

That is what I thought after the playoff game. I thought it was finally coming together for him after Ried working with him.  I have heard that Aaron Rodgers wasn't the same QB he is  now vs. when he came out of college.  Mike McCarthy had to really work with him. I heard that it was good that he sat behind Favre and they basically retrained him completely.

 

It was my hope that Andy Reid, being the QB guru that some think he is, would do the same thing for Smith. Last season it was more of the same, and it's hard to tell this season. I thought he played pretty solid against the Texans but not so much against the Broncos defense, which I think is  better. I'm hoping he proves me wrong of course, but I'm leaning toward this is who he is. 

 

I agree that the oline is important,very important. Having said that, QB's like Manning or Aaron Rodgers have not always had great onlines and still excel. I seem to remember one season where Rodgers was the most sacked QB in the league yet still threw for like 4000 yards.  

 

Alex Smith needs a clean pocket, like most quarterbacks, but some can still operate at a high level without it. I think that's what makes some QB's elite.  I say some because I think there are other QB's in history that most people would consider elite, that had top OLInes most of the time. Troy Aikman and Tom Brady come to mind. 

[West 6,713]

Andrew Luck is getting pounded.

 

Eli Manning is Shell Shocked

 

Bad Lines make great QB's look pretty bad.

 

Note: Great Rating for Eli?  Well, he won two SB's if that is your Definition of Great?

 

w

[artsy 1,137]

I think when/if Fisher gets his game back on track, and once Conley is inserted full time, this offense and Alex will be performing at high level.

[eraser 722]

That is what I thought after the playoff game. I thought it was finally coming together for him after Ried working with him.  I have heard that Aaron Rodgers wasn't the same QB he is  now vs. when he came out of college.  Mike McCarthy had to really work with him. I heard that it was good that he sat behind Favre and they basically retrained him completely.

 

It was my hope that Andy Reid, being the QB guru that some think he is, would do the same thing for Smith. Last season it was more of the same, and it's hard to tell this season. I thought he played pretty solid against the Texans but not so much against the Broncos defense, which I think is  better. I'm hoping he proves me wrong of course, but I'm leaning toward this is who he is. 

 

I agree that the oline is important,very important. Having said that, QB's like Manning or Aaron Rodgers have not always had great onlines and still excel. I seem to remember one season where Rodgers was the most sacked QB in the league yet still threw for like 4000 yards.  

 

Alex Smith needs a clean pocket, like most quarterbacks, but some can still operate at a high level without it. I think that's what makes some QB's elite.  I say some because I think there are other QB's in history that most people would consider elite, that had top OLInes most of the time. Troy Aikman and Tom Brady come to mind. 

I anticipated John Dorsey would have seen the need last winter, and done what he needed to do to get the protection Alex needs. It did not happen. I like the players he brought in. I did not like the subtraction of our Center, Hudson. You can say he got Morse, but that really makes it even for the loss of Hudson (in the best of all outcomes). Grubbs is an improvement over McGlynn. If LDT wasn't an improvement over Fulton, then you would have to question why Fulton wasn't starting. We can complain about LDT, but he is an improvement. Last year Harris was the RT, and now he is at Denver. Dorsey could have had him back, but elected to let him go. That tells me all I need to know about him. Indeed, he is not very good at Denver. His replacement has been Jah Reid, who has been abysmal. I think the idea to move Fisher to right tackle may be good if Fisher accepts that role. Stephenson looks better than Fisher at LT.

 

Was there an improvement over last year on the OL? Yes. Was it enough? No, probably not. The Chiefs also addressed some of the wide receiver issues. They got another TE. O'Shaghnessy is much better than I thought he could be. He is going to be a huge surprise on this team if he continues to improve. Kelce looks to be better. Maclin is a nice WR and a big improvement over Bowe. Wilson showed he belonged in the NFL. The Chiefs got Conley at WR in the draft, and he seems to have nice skills. The passing still does not look improved. The OL is not great, but I would say it is better. The wide receivers are not the best in the league, but they are a huge improvement over last year. The production should be better, but it is not. I want to know why not? To me, it comes down to either the play calling or the QB. In my opinion, it is both.

[Goldbrick 364]

I anticipated John Dorsey would have seen the need last winter, and done what he needed to do to get the protection Alex needs. It did not happen. I like the players he brought in. I did not like the subtraction of our Center, Hudson. You can say he got Morse, but that really makes it even for the loss of Hudson (in the best of all outcomes). Grubbs is an improvement over McGlynn. If LDT wasn't an improvement over Fulton, then you would have to question why Fulton wasn't starting. We can complain about LDT, but he is an improvement. Last year Harris was the RT, and now he is at Denver. Dorsey could have had him back, but elected to let him go. That tells me all I need to know about him. Indeed, he is not very good at Denver. His replacement has been Jah Reid, who has been abysmal. I think the idea to move Fisher to right tackle may be good if Fisher accepts that role. Stephenson looks better than Fisher at LT.

 

Was there an improvement over last year on the OL? Yes. Was it enough? No, probably not. The Chiefs also addressed some of the wide receiver issues. They got another TE. O'Shaghnessy is much better than I thought he could be. He is going to be a huge surprise on this team if he continues to improve. Kelce looks to be better. Maclin is a nice WR and a big improvement over Bowe. Wilson showed he belonged in the NFL. The Chiefs got Conley at WR in the draft, and he seems to have nice skills. The passing still does not look improved. The OL is not great, but I would say it is better. The wide receivers are not the best in the league, but they are a huge improvement over last year. The production should be better, but it is not. I want to know why not? To me, it comes down to either the play calling or the QB. In my opinion, it is both.

 

Week 1 the passing game looked much improved.  Week 2 it didn't.  I don't think there is enough data to support your conclusion, unless you solely focus on the Denver game.

[KCSLC2008 606]

The OL is not great, but I would say it is better. The wide receivers are not the best in the league, but they are a huge improvement over last year. The production should be better, but it is not. I want to know why not? To me, it comes down to either the play calling or the QB. In my opinion, it is both.

We may have just played the two best defenses as far as protection issues goes. So there's hope that there for a little bit better production soon. It's only been two games, and in the first game we got to 240+ yards including a 39 yarder being taken away because of a little bobble. Smith could've thrown that pass a little bit better, but the fact remains that production for that one game was good... and that includes us taking the foot off the gas for the second half. True, Houston is not a good team, but protection wise they have good rushers. And they were known for their defense last year.

 

Against Denver, it wasn't as good. But we did score to give us a 24-17 lead. The next time we got the ball was with 36 seconds to go and no need to score, just preference. What we needed was to not turn the ball over. We should've secured the ball or maybe have gone for a pass that what if intercepted would get them out of field-goal range (though 57 yards is in their field-goal kicker's range).

 

Both are just one game. People will say that our team or Smith has a history, but you were talking about how based on our improvement on OL and WR this off-season, why your expected increase production didn't happen.

 

My answer is that it did for one game and didn't for another, and too small sample size to tell one way or another when we play too good defenses. There will be some filler/fluffer games (hopefully not too many garbage time games) and other teams where we might match up well against. Then for the rest, we should get better with time. All OL, even if better than last year, were new together.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Week 1 the passing game looked much improved. Week 2 it didn't. I don't think there is enough data to support your conclusion, unless you solely focus on the Denver game.

I wish I had read your post before making mine; you said exactly what I did, but in a more succinct and better way.

 

Actually, no, I wish I had a billion dollars, immunity of all ills and injuries to my family, friends, and teams, and a SB/Championship ring for all my teams many times over, plus the standard no cancer, rapes, or murders in the world from now until the end of time, with the ability to time travel with the choice of affecting things or not and only to the degree I want fixed (no surprises, natural or not) and an invisibility ability whenever I want that no one would know about, (for unperverse reasons but unlimited).

 

But reading your post first would have been good, too.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Week 1 the passing game looked much improved. Week 2 it didn't. I don't think there is enough data to support your conclusion, unless you solely focus on the Denver game.

I really don't see how anyone can determine how a team will be after 2 games. I usually give teams a month then evaluate.

 

Really, what can we tell after 2 weeks?

 

Pats easily handle Pittsburgh who in turn beat the crap out of SF who a week earlier beat up the Vikings who this week beat up the Lions.

 

The Jets destroy Clev who this week beat up Titans who last week trashed TB who this week blasted NO.

 

The Rams handle Sea then get smashed by the Redskins who a week earlier was beaten by Mia who this week was beaten by Jax who was crushed by Car who this week.

 

The Raiders get smoked by Cinci then the Raiders turn around smacks Baltimore who a week earlier took Denver to the last play of the game before losing it on an int then this week Denver needs another last second turn over to win against the Chiefs who easily handled Houston last week.

 

I would wait until week four when teams start to seperate before determining who's good or bad. Remember NE was 2-2 after week 4 last year losing to Mia and KC with their wins coming against Oak and Min. The Chiefs will right this ship and be in the playoffs again this year.

[artsy 1,137]

I really don't see how anyone can determine how a team will be after 2 games. I usually give teams a month then evaluate.

 

Really, what can we tell after 2 weeks?

 

Pats easily handle Pittsburgh who in turn beat the crap out of SF who a week earlier beat up the Vikings who this week beat up the Lions.

 

The Jets destroy Clev who this week beat up Titans who last week trashed TB who this week blasted NO.

 

The Rams handle Sea then get smashed by the Redskins who a week earlier was beaten by Mia who this week was beaten by Jax who was crushed by Car who this week.

 

The Raiders get smoked by Cinci then the Raiders turn around smacks Baltimore who a week earlier took Denver to the last play of the game before losing it on an int then this week Denver needs another last second turn over to win against the Chiefs who easily handled Houston last week.

 

I would wait until week four when teams start to seperate before determining who's good or bad. Remember NE was 2-2 after week 4 last year losing to Mia and KC with their wins coming against Oak and Min. The Chiefs will right this ship and be in the playoffs again this year.

Agree 100%