liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5/ 10. Kansas City Chiefs (27th) Pass blocking rank: 21st Run blocking rank: 3rd Penalties Rank: 16th Stud: Whisper it quietly, but Eric Fisher (+4.2) has played really well since returning to right tackle. Dud: That’s good, because the guy he replaced, Jah Reid (-7.3), really wasn’t playing well at all. Summary: The offseason moves have worked, because Mitch Morse has hit the ground running, and Ben Grubbs has played better than anyone they had at guard last year. There are still some things to be decided, and it will be worth watching how Fisher plays as the season goes on, but it’s been an impressive turnaround so far for the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5/ 10. Kansas City Chiefs (27th) Pass blocking rank: 21st Run blocking rank: 3rd Penalties Rank: 16th Stud: Whisper it quietly, but Eric Fisher (+4.2) has played really well since returning to right tackle. Dud: That’s good, because the guy he replaced, Jah Reid (-7.3), really wasn’t playing well at all. Summary: The offseason moves have worked, because Mitch Morse has hit the ground running, and Ben Grubbs has played better than anyone they had at guard last year. There are still some things to be decided, and it will be worth watching how Fisher plays as the season goes on, but it’s been an impressive turnaround so far for the Chiefs. And yet we have given up more sacks than anyone. And we don't run the ball enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 whatever..its about W's and we got 1 and thats the bottom line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 From Football Outsiders (whom I hold in about as high esteem as Pffft, which is not very much): Kansas City: Run Blocking: 8th in league Pass Blocking: 30th in league It's interesting how much Football Outsiders and Pffft differ on these numbers, but the relevance of the Pffft ranking here is quite limited: It's really a projection based on Eric Fisher's performances in weeks three and four (he was active, but played very little in weeks one and two). I'm not sure how a player is allowed to prop up a ranking to the extent Fisher did, seeing as he was irrelevant in weeks one and two. Besides, it really doesn't matter if your left tackle is playing at an above-average level if your right side is wet toilet paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,234 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Our lines run blocking is better so andy always abandons the Running game...yeah that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 From Football Outsiders (whom I hold in about as high esteem as Pffft, which is not very much): Kansas City: Run Blocking: 8th in league Pass Blocking: 30th in league It's interesting how much Football Outsiders and Pffft differ on these numbers, but the relevance of the Pffft ranking here is quite limited: It's really a projection based on Eric Fisher's performances in weeks three and four (he was active, but played very little in weeks one and two). I'm not sure how a player is allowed to prop up a ranking to the extent Fisher did, seeing as he was irrelevant in weeks one and two. Besides, it really doesn't matter if your left tackle is playing at an above-average level if your right side is wet toilet paper. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 From Football Outsiders (whom I hold in about as high esteem as Pffft, which is not very much): Kansas City: Run Blocking: 8th in league Pass Blocking: 30th in league It's interesting how much Football Outsiders and Pffft differ on these numbers, but the relevance of the Pffft ranking here is quite limited: It's really a projection based on Eric Fisher's performances in weeks three and four (he was active, but played very little in weeks one and two). I'm not sure how a player is allowed to prop up a ranking to the extent Fisher did, seeing as he was irrelevant in weeks one and two. Besides, it really doesn't matter if your left tackle is playing at an above-average level if your right side is wet toilet paper. There really isn't a week 1 or 2 rating as he really didn't play. The PFF scorecard is an accumulation score from weeks 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 fisher is playing better but the line as whole doesn't pass the eye test.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Guard play and lack of control with A gaps and Stephenson taking a step back these last two weeks has stuck out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 There really isn't a week 1 or 2 rating as he really didn't play. The PFF scorecard is an accumulation score from weeks 3 and 4. The PFF Scorecard is an accumulation score from weeks one through four: Two games of Jah Reid along with two games of Eric Fisher. I'm not sure how their algorithms are structured, but it seems that the Chiefs' offensive line is being gifted points because they've gone against elite defensive fronts for three out of four games, and because their defense is choking away games early on, making things exceptionally hard on the offensive line, and thus justifying some other 'credit' for the Chiefs' pass protection. I don't buy it. Garbage is garbage. People don't like it when Smith throws for over 300 yards but doesn't complete a touchdown pass, and they rank him poorly as a consequence, regardless of any mitigating factors. Why can an offensive line give up so many quick pressures and so many sacks and escape being ranked with the worst eighth of the league? There's just not a chance that the Chiefs are the tenth-best offensive line in the league. They're playing worse than they did last year, so how can they have improved from the 27th-best offensive line in 2014 to tenth-best in 2015? This is why I refer to them as Pffft. Non-transparent algorithms are not subject to scrutiny, and therefore, I have no basis for believing what the algorithms produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The PFF Scorecard is an accumulation score from weeks one through four: Two games of Jah Reid along with two games of Eric Fisher. I'm not sure how their algorithms are structured, but it seems that the Chiefs' offensive line is being gifted points because they've gone against elite defensive fronts for three out of four games, and because their defense is choking away games early on, making things exceptionally hard on the offensive line, and thus justifying some other 'credit' for the Chiefs' pass protection. I don't buy it. Garbage is garbage. People don't like it when Smith throws for over 300 yards but doesn't complete a touchdown pass, and they rank him poorly as a consequence, regardless of any mitigating factors. Why can an offensive line give up so many quick pressures and so many sacks and escape being ranked with the worst eighth of the league? There's just not a chance that the Chiefs are the tenth-best offensive line in the league. They're playing worse than they did last year, so how can they have improved from the 27th-best offensive line in 2014 to tenth-best in 2015? This is why I refer to them as Pffft. Non-transparent algorithms are not subject to scrutiny, and therefore, I have no basis for believing what the algorithms produce. Totally agree with your OLINE analysis.I rank them- DOGSHIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Fisher has played well at RT. Grubbs may be better than McGlynn, but he isn't great. Stephenson had rough outings two weeks in a row. Morse was not good last Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 The PFF Scorecard is an accumulation score from weeks one through four: Two games of Jah Reid along with two games of Eric Fisher. I'm not sure how their algorithms are structured, but it seems that the Chiefs' offensive line is being gifted points because they've gone against elite defensive fronts for three out of four games, and because their defense is choking away games early on, making things exceptionally hard on the offensive line, and thus justifying some other 'credit' for the Chiefs' pass protection. I don't buy it. Garbage is garbage. People don't like it when Smith throws for over 300 yards but doesn't complete a touchdown pass, and they rank him poorly as a consequence, regardless of any mitigating factors. Why can an offensive line give up so many quick pressures and so many sacks and escape being ranked with the worst eighth of the league? There's just not a chance that the Chiefs are the tenth-best offensive line in the league. They're playing worse than they did last year, so how can they have improved from the 27th-best offensive line in 2014 to tenth-best in 2015? This is why I refer to them as Pffft. Non-transparent algorithms are not subject to scrutiny, and therefore, I have no basis for believing what the algorithms produce. I know one of the reasons why...do you? It goes beyond the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcchief4lif 910 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 De Nile is not just a river in Egypt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Say what you want. The bottom line is that no team has a line performing as badly as the Chiefs' is in pass protection that has a quarterback performing as well as Smith has. The fact that Pffft and Football Outsiders aren't even close to each other's assessments of the Chiefs' offensive line should have been enough to dampen your smugness on the issue. So maybe in week five, either the Chiefs' offensive line or their defense will show up, and then Smith can make more clutch plays rather than constantly trying to shield his spleen. This anti-quarterback agenda of yours in the face of the realities of the league when it comes to substandard offensive lines inexcusable. Lines that are constantly allowing A- or B-gap pressures aren't quality offensive lines, regardless of what some algorithm pukes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Lmao you don't get it. Footballoutsiders and PFF differ in the sense of yeah they have different scales for analyzing and wow oh em gee someone will something different from another person. I like how I am anti-QB though haha. I'm so anti Alex Smith that I didn't say the Bengals loss was on him. I call it how I see it. The Chiefs so far have one win that was squeaker against one of the worst teams in the NFL and the QB play is one of the many problems on the roster. Truth hurts so ice up son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Lmao you don't get it. Footballoutsiders and PFF differ in the sense of yeah they have different scales for analyzing and wow oh em gee someone will something different from another person. I like how I am anti-QB though haha. I'm so anti Alex Smith that I didn't say the Bengals loss was on him. I call it how I see it. The Chiefs so far have one win that was squeaker against one of the worst teams in the NFL and the QB play is one of the many problems on the roster. Truth hurts so ice up son. I really wish we didn't take our foot off the gas against Houston. For two reasons: one, maybe we build some confidence in the system and players and get some scoring. Second, I wouldn't have to hear from everybody how we slowed. Or how we barely won. There are ways of keeping your foot on the gas without using special plays, risking more injuries, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Footballoutsiders and PFF differ in the sense of yeah they have different scales for analyzing and wow oh em gee someone will something different from another person. "Different scales" don't explain how one says that the offensive line is good and one says that the offensive line is poor, nor do they explain how one says that the line's pass protection is average while the other says that the line's pass protection is awful. Subjective analysis will be open to interpretation, but usually isn't so polarized. Differing algorithms that weigh different data differently can produce results that are not merely "different", but opposite. I can't scrutinize either algorithm, so I promote neither. I see defenders running through and around the Chiefs' offensive line like blood runs through and around an undersized Band-Aid® on a trauma patient's gunshot wound. The only reason I don't argue that the Chiefs have the worst offensive line in the league is that I don't have the time to fairly scrutinize the offensive lines of 32 teams that have so far played in 65 games. Historically, it's one of the worst I've witnessed, and it definitely is worse than last year's, which leaves me to wonder what Pffft's algorithm weighted as relevant so as to upgrade the line's pass protection ranking from poor to average. "Different" is not sufficiently severe a word so as to describe the degree of separation between the products of these two algorithms. At least one of them is inherently flawed, and being that Football Outsiders' result is a whole lot closer to what the eye test says, Pffft is the one left lacking credibility. Trying to artificially prop up the Chiefs' offensive line with statistics that are intended in a roundabout way to cast shade on the quarterback suggests credulity on your part, not critical analysis. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 You have to understand what PFF is looking at and what the "ranking" entails to get anything meaningful from it. You look at the cumulative scores of individual player performance and things can look better than they are. If one guy fails every play, the play often fails. I don't like their "unit" rankings because of this. I do like their individual player rankings, however. Alex Smith's duck and cover philosophy isn't helping either. I give both the O-Line and AS a D right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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