DieHard 2,061 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think I heard next year cost the Chiefs $17 mil to keep Alex $11 Mil to cut him, save that 8 mil along with cutting Berry & Poe. and Tamba you got something. DJ's aint costing much and his leadership is still a valuable asset I like keeping Poe. Poe, Bailey and Howard are a great line. Berry is too much. Hali is a guy I love, but we need to find a new starter there. Not sure Ford is that guy. But Oline has to be the focus. QB if a stud is there, but Oline all the way after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I like keeping Poe. Poe, Bailey and Howard are a great line. Berry is too much. Hali is a guy I love, but we need to find a new starter there. Not sure Ford is that guy. But Oline has to be the focus. QB if a stud is there, but Oline all the way after that. Ford, does NOT look like that guy atm. He can't even see the field behind Hali who's years past his prime. Ford, however is good at showing up on gifs getting his ankles broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Most of you deserve a quarterback like Eli Manning. He was drafted first overall. He's never contributed consistently good performances, and only achieved two championship rings because he played for Giants teams with elite defenses. It's a lost cause, PhataL. People are not going to see what you were trying to argue. People will not see that the Niners scored more than the Patriots did against that defense. All they will see is the result. People will not see that the Giants were gifted two red zone possessions at the end of the game. All they're going to see is them winning at the end, which means "clutch." And they are going to cite some receiver or third-down conversion stat. They are not going to see the Giants defense as being good or the receivers bailing Manning out. They're not going to see the dropped interceptions. They are not going to see a fumble whistled dead. They are just going to see a quarterback taking risks. They are just going to see two championship rings and say, of course, we deserve that. A better thing to say someone deserves would have been to say that they would deserve to have the first overall pick spent on a quarterback who refused to sign with them (Manning) and then have the quarterback win two rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's a lost cause, PhataL. People are not going to see what you were trying to argue. People will not see that the Niners scored more than the Patriots did against that defense. All they will see is the result. People will not see that the Giants were gifted two red zone possessions at the end of the game. All they're going to see is them winning at the end, which means "clutch." And they are going to cite some receiver or third-down conversion stat. They are not going to see the Giants defense has been good or the receivers bailing Manning out. They're not going to see the dropped interceptions. They are not going to see a fumble whistled dead. They are just going to see a quarterback taking risks. They are just going to see two championship rings and say of course we deserve that. A better thing to say someone deserves would have been to say that they would deserve to have the first overall pick spent on a quarterback who refused to sign with them. I saw Eli drop a dime to burress in the clutch. That's what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 If you want to ease tensions by destroying things, maybe you should hype up your expectations about the game and regardless of whether we barely win or hugely lose, you'll be disappointed and you can take it out on the drywall. If you lower your expectations, or don't watch the game, you'll have to find something else to disappoint you. It's built in there, that's with the Chiefs are there for. Use them. I watched most of the game, and then went to work on the drywall. It felt good to take it out on gypsum board. I also had a blue jay fall out of the tree in front of me. It died, and dropped right in front of me. I guess they have an expiration date. I turned it over with my shoe. It was stone cold dead. I left it alone yesterday. Today, I gave it a ceremonial boot to the fence line. Unfortunately, the Toronto Blue Jays did the butt kicking tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's a lost cause, PhataL. People are not going to see what you were trying to argue. People will not see that the Niners scored more than the Patriots did against that defense. All they will see is the result. People will not see that the Giants were gifted two red zone possessions at the end of the game. All they're going to see is them winning at the end, which means "clutch." And they are going to cite some receiver or third-down conversion stat. They are not going to see the Giants defense as being good or the receivers bailing Manning out. They're not going to see the dropped interceptions. They are not going to see a fumble whistled dead. They are just going to see a quarterback taking risks. They are just going to see two championship rings and say, of course, we deserve that. A better thing to say someone deserves would have been to say that they would deserve to have the first overall pick spent on a quarterback who refused to sign with them (Manning) and then have the quarterback win two rings. No we get what he's saying, and what he's saying is wrong and dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 A better thing to say someone deserves would have been to say that they would deserve to have the first overall pick spent on a quarterback who refused to sign with them (Manning) and then have the quarterback win two rings. No, no one deserves that. Eli Manning's legacy is built on a lie: He was First-Overall Pick, but he didn't shoulder the burden of playing for the league's worst team. He turned the 2004 draft into a farce. His refusal to play for the Chargers represents one of the worst moments in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I saw Eli drop a dime to burress in the clutch. That's what I saw. It wouldn't have been worth anything if the Giants' defense hadn't held the Patriots to 14 points. "Better to be lucky than good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 No, no one deserves that. Eli Manning's legacy is built on a lie: He was First-Overall Pick, but he didn't shoulder the burden of playing for the league's worst team. He turned the 2004 draft into a farce. His refusal to play for the Chargers represents one of the worst moments in NFL history. Or maybe he just made a GREAT career decision in his one and only life here on Earth? Why go play for a franchise that was in the dumps when you can force a trade with one that wasn't? Most QBs would love to have that sort of leverage. Eli did what was best for Eli, he didn't owe the Chargers or the NFL a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Okiechief1 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 In general life probably wasn't easy being Peytons lil brother. That alone carries more expectations no matter where he would have went and probably higher expectations than a normal #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Or maybe he just made a GREAT career decision in his one and only life here on Earth? Why go play for a franchise that was in the dumps when you can force a trade with one that wasn't? Most QBs would love to have that sort of leverage. Eli did what was best for Eli, he didn't owe the Chargers or the NFL a damn thing. I wish that San Diego didn't trade Manning out of principle, make him wait it out. And Baltimore kept Elway. And we drafted La'el Collins. There was one more, but I think it's unfair (not unfair by rule) that these guys don't have to just take what they get. I don't see it as more people should pout or use leverage, I just wish the teams didn't cave. Let Elway play baseball, let Manning sit out. Rodgers wanted to be drafted by the Niners, his childhood dream, but because he was not cooperative at the individual workouts with the Niners, they picked Smith. Rodgers got to be with the perfect coach for him the next year on the perfect team for him, after learning from Favre, regardless of how unhelpful he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Rodgers, Brady, Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger. It's very obvious people. These guys have been around for years. Their teams may have a down year but they just keep building around them. These guys have had numerous O-lines, RBs, WRs, and coordinators. All the excuses that are built in for the "fill in the blank" savior QBs we try every couple of years. These guys make everybody look better. We need one of these. It's not easy. But you have to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yep az, everything starts and ends with the QB. Am I referencing Bubbles when I say this? If he doesn't have "it", then you move on and find one that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Or maybe he just made a GREAT career decision in his one and only life here on Earth? Why go play for a franchise that was in the dumps when you can force a trade with one that wasn't? Most QBs would love to have that sort of leverage. Eli did what was best for Eli, he didn't owe the Chargers or the NFL a damn thing. That's absolute garbage. If you enter the NFL through the draft, you go to the team that picks you. That is the arrangement. If you don't like that arrangement, stand in line with the undrafted free agents. Anything else violates the whole purpose of the draft, which is to promote parity. There's a time and place for leverage. What Manning Light (and John Elway) did was unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 San Diego got Rivers, a 1st, a 3rd and a 5th for Eli. I look at it as a draft day trade. Remember folks it's a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 San Diego got Rivers, a 1st, a 3rd and a 5th for Eli. I look at it as a draft day trade. Remember folks it's a business. I think teams should initiate and carry-out their business, not players. If a team just thought they needed picks more than what Eli could provide - without being pressured to trade, they should trade. I think a player should shut their mouth, as the draft is a parity thing and I'm not convinced that because any player could say try to leverage that it's ok when they do. Not asking anyone to be sued, jailed, or banned from the HOF. Just saying I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 That's absolute garbage. If you enter the NFL through the draft, you go to the team that picks you. That is the arrangement. If you don't like that arrangement, stand in line with the undrafted free agents. Anything else violates the whole purpose of the draft, which is to promote parity. There's a time and place for leverage. What Manning Light (and John Elway) did was unethical. Get off your moral high horse... It's business. It's life. You get one of each. I don't blame ANY player for maximizing their positions. Teams cut players at the drop of a hat. It's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Get off your moral high horse... It's business. It's life. You get one of each. I don't blame ANY player for maximizing their positions. Teams cut players at the drop of a hat. It's business. Terms. Abide by the terms. Teams abide by the terms. It just happens to be that teams universally retain the right to unilaterally tear up contracts, and that has to do more with roster spot limitations than money. If teams abide by their terms, players should have to abide by terms. That includes not holding out and playing out the contract they willingly signed, and also includes playing for the team that drafted them. I happen to believe that a man is as good as his word, and you clearly believe otherwise. One of the reasons this world is as messed up as it is is because of people who live by the philosophy you promote. Your position is morally indefensible. It is unethical in the absolute. And if upholding your own promise is as worthless as you make it out to be, I sure hope you've got other virtues in spades, or you are really one messed up dude. I've taken plenty of personal shots on this forum for a variety of reasons, and I ignore almost all of them as childish efforts to assert one's dominance when their arguments can't do that for them. When you tell me, "Get off your moral high horse," you have absolutely no idea what kind of person I am. You, on the other hand, have absolutely betrayed what sort of person you are by parroting an ill-conceived argument that tramples on Truth. What you wrote was the most offensive thing I have seen in these forums, as it is a direct attack on the soul of humanity, namely, to choose The Lie over The Truth. And of course, you probably didn't mean that in the absolute, but I leave the aforementioned portion of this response unedited so that you can reflect on why it is you might uphold a double-standard when it comes to keeping one's own word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Lmfao This guy owns and I now think he's a masterful troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Terms. Abide by the terms. Teams abide by the terms. It just happens to be that teams universally retain the right to unilaterally tear up contracts, and that has to do more with roster spot limitations than money. If teams abide by their terms, players should have to abide by terms. That includes not holding out and playing out the contract they willingly signed, and also includes playing for the team that drafted them. I happen to believe that a man is as good as his word, and you clearly believe otherwise. One of the reasons this world is as messed up as it is is because of people who live by the philosophy you promote. Your position is morally indefensible. It is unethical in the absolute. And if upholding your own promise is as worthless as you make it out to be, I sure hope you've got other virtues in spades, or you are really one messed up dude. I've taken plenty of personal shots on this forum for a variety of reasons, and I ignore almost all of them as childish efforts to assert one's dominance when their arguments can't do that for them. When you tell me, "Get off your moral high horse," you have absolutely no idea what kind of person I am. You, on the other hand, have absolutely betrayed what sort of person you are by parroting an ill-conceived argument that tramples on Truth. What you wrote was the most offensive thing I have seen in these forums, as it is a direct attack on the soul of humanity, namely, to choose The Lie over The Truth. And of course, you probably didn't mean that in the absolute, but I leave the aforementioned portion of this response unedited so that you can reflect on why it is you might uphold a double-standard when it comes to keeping one's own word. W T F You're right, I could walk by you in the strip-club and have no clue it was you, I don't know you, you don't know me, we're internet strangers talking football... I will NEVER take personal shots at YOU, the person, because again, I don't know YOU, the person, but I will absolutely be more than happy to stick needles in the words you type on this forum. I make deals all the time, I broker transactions between people who want to BUY investment interersts into oil and gas production, and those who want or may not want to SELL their interests. I don't have time to worry about a handshake deal, or taking someone's word, because if I do, the next guy will cut me out of the deal and I lose money. The ONLY thing that matters is the contract, the words on paper that both parties agree to. That's it, that's all. Anything short of that is meaningless litigation waiting to occur. If Eli had no functional bargaining posture or capability, he would not have been able to force a trade to the Giants. It's just that simple. He did nothing wrong, nothing illegal, nothing immoral. He simply made a GREAT business decision. Same with Elway. He was gifted enough, marketable enough, to say you know what Baltimore, screw you, if you draft me I'm going to play baseball instead, so you had better rethink your business strategy here. Again, these are BUSINESS DECISIONS. So again, climb down off of your moral high horse, join the rest of us in that existence known as REALITY, and enjoy some football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Stubby is a veteran of this forum about 11 years. He likes it when you take personal shots at him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 W T F You're right, I could walk by you in the strip-club and have no clue it was you, I don't know you, you don't know me, we're internet strangers talking football... I will NEVER take personal shots at YOU, the person, because again, I don't know YOU, the person, but I will absolutely be more than happy to stick needles in the words you type on this forum. I make deals all the time, I broker transactions between people who want to BUY investment interersts into oil and gas production, and those who want or may not want to SELL their interests. I don't have time to worry about a handshake deal, or taking someone's word, because if I do, the next guy will cut me out of the deal and I lose money. The ONLY thing that matters is the contract, the words on paper that both parties agree to. That's it, that's all. Anything short of that is meaningless litigation waiting to occur. If Eli had no functional bargaining posture or capability, he would not have been able to force a trade to the Giants. It's just that simple. He did nothing wrong, nothing illegal, nothing immoral. He simply made a GREAT business decision. Same with Elway. He was gifted enough, marketable enough, to say you know what Baltimore, screw you, if you draft me I'm going to play baseball instead, so you had better rethink your business strategy here. Again, these are BUSINESS DECISIONS. So again, climb down off of your moral high horse, join the rest of us in that existence known as REALITY, and enjoy some football. Agree, but I wish the Colts and Chargers kept them for a year. I don't applaud the QBs, I don't place them as terrible people. I also recognize that the advantage they put themselves in to be on a better team colors my perspective when I look at a player who went to the bad team he was drafted to (Smith, Carr, etc.) versus those who go to good teams and/or get to learn (Manning, Elway, Rodgers*). It doesn't flip the script entirely, but it puts into question their bad starts or reputation. Could have happened to Elway or Manning, not to flip their fates but rather to make them look worse than they were. Smith could have been average playing for a good team which would make his career above average (not elite). * Where Rodgers is now, I'm not saying he couldn't be if drafted to the Niners - I'm just saying his first few years would be worse than his first few Green Bay years. He'd have to learn it from those he couldn't teach it (not talking about "it" that can't be taught) in a bad system (McCarthey and Norv Turner left to be a HC, still would have with Rodgers - the following Niner coaches were no good. They're not staying to be OC's. Niners had interest but couldn't evaluate coaches until Harbaugh. Harbaugh came after a bad year and chose Smith so don't tell me no one was interested before because of Smith). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 yea those donkey fans like to be spanked... nevermind.. I was trying to quote wilkie... impossible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Our next QB will not matter if the Chiefs do not address protection. There are few players who can survive without above average protection. Manning was able to survive early in his career. Later, he had trouble on occasion, but seems to be an exception. Also, you could put Aaron Rodgers in that category. After that, you would have to look long and far to find another. Brady has had trouble when faced with pressure. Drew Brees is currently having difficulty as the Saints cannot protect him. The odds of getting the one in fifteen or twenty year quarterback, who can adjust to pressure without protection is very slim. The Chiefs may have a very high draft pick. Once again they may have the choice of picking a QB or LT. Last time it did not work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The ONLY thing that matters is the contract, the words on paper that both parties agree to. And in short, you swallow whole the propaganda that NFL franchises violate contracts by terminating their players. The fact is, their ability to cut players at will is a right they reserve. The signing bonuses, roster bonuses, salary guarantees, and other such payments are the mechanisms agreed to between both parties upon signing of the contract to make up for the fact that clubs reserve the right to fire players at will. So you almost see things correctly. The draft argument has a lot more gray area, but it clearly wasn't the intent of the Annual Selection Meeting regulations to allow 'Super Firsts' to manipulate the draft so that they could go to a team of their choosing rather than going to the team with the exclusive right to choose them. Exploiting loopholes is almost as bad as the outright violation of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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