wilkie 1,518 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 It doesn't have to be self motivation and it doesn't have to be playing for pride. That's rah rah college BS. These guys are playing for a PAYCHECK. In this business you are only as good as your last game. Dorsey knows this. I have to believe if there were better folks out there they would be on the roster. Which brings us to the very strange case of our offensive tackle/guard Mr. Allen who is the invisible man on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It doesn't have to be self motivation and it doesn't have to be playing for pride. That's rah rah college BS. These guys are playing for a PAYCHECK. In this business you are only as good as your last game. Dorsey knows this. I have to believe if there were better folks out there they would be on the roster. Which brings us to the very strange case of our offensive tackle/guard Mr. Allen who is the invisible man on this team. I understand that. I'm just tired of everything being one person's fault. It's not the QB. It's not the coach. It's not the defense. It's not the turnovers. It's all of them. So when somebody tries to pin the effort of one unit on someone else, that bugs me. Effort belongs to you whether it's because of the paycheck, pride, motivation, your job, your grandma, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It doesn't have to be self motivation and it doesn't have to be playing for pride. That's rah rah college BS. These guys are playing for a PAYCHECK. In this business you are only as good as your last game. Dorsey knows this. I have to believe if there were better folks out there they would be on the roster. Which brings us to the very strange case of our offensive tackle/guard Mr. Allen who is the invisible man on this team. We all work or worked for pay. It's a great motivator. But there's doing a good job and there's knocking oneself out on every play to gain the slight edge which leads to victory. I think this team has a morale problem and that goes right to the top. Did you see the Dodgers in game five of the NLDS? One run down with three innings to go and we could see by camera shots into their dugout that they were beaten. That's where the Chiefs are right now and it has little to do with pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 We all work or worked for pay. It's a great motivator. But there's doing a good job and there's knocking oneself out on every play to gain the slight edge which leads to victory. I think this team has a morale problem and that goes right to the top. Did you see the Dodgers in game five of the NLDS? One run down with three innings to go and we could see by camera shots into their dugout that they were beaten. That's where the Chiefs are right now and it has little to do with pay.Your post went through at 1:59 A.M. Were you still up at that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Here's my opinion on the offensive line.... Eric Fisher is better at Right Tackle than he is at Left Tackle. Fish has been playing rather solid football this year and if the right side is where he has to remain the rest of his career to be a good football player, then so be it. It's upsetting that he isn't a franchise left tackle, but he isn't a complete bust either. Donald Stephenson is not a very good football player. What makes the "Fisher situation" so damn infuriating isn't that he's been sucking total ass, its that Fisher was drafted to be the franchise left tackle and now they've had to stick this clown Stephenson on the left side. I don't know what happened in the past couple of years to make Stephenson go from looking like he had a legitimate future on the left side to absolute crap, but its happened. Fisher was a better left tackle than Stephenson. Whoever plays right guard sucks. It doesn't seem to matter who is in there at the position, its a bad situation. This is, arguably, the absolute worst position on the team. Also, Grubbs is not that good of a pass blocker on the left side. I've said it time and again, and I'll say it again now: the most important pieces to a good offensive line in the NFL are the guards. These are the people that, when they suck, allow the instant pressure into the QB's face and are the ones that don't allow the QB a pocket to step up into as the tackles ride their men outside. If you want a good offensive line in the NFL, get good guards. If I had to recommend a plan for KC going into 2016, it'd be to draft two young guards relatively early on, say rounds 2 and 3. The Center position with Mitch Morse is going to be a learning experience. We all knew this heading in. What I can say is that Morse has played very well for a rookie and the future looks incredibly bright. However, there are problems right now. He gives up some pressures inside and communication on stunts and blitzes is lacking. Between the problems at guard and having a young center, this team isn't going anywhere fast this season. Too much inside pressure. Bottom line is that I don't think the tackles are half as much the problem as the guards are right now, even though there needs to be a definite upgrade on the left side. One absolute certainty is that the Chiefs must address the guard position heading into 2016 or whomever they start at QB will be in for another long year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I understand that. I'm just tired of everything being one person's fault. It's not the QB. It's not the coach. It's not the defense. It's not the turnovers. It's all of them. So when somebody tries to pin the effort of one unit on someone else, the bugs me. Effort belongs to you whether it's because of the paycheck, pride, motivation, your job, your grandma, etc. I agree that there are many problems on this team and Alex Smith shouldn't take all the blame but definitely needs to take his share without excuses. This is a quarterback league and we need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I agree that there are many problems on this team and Alex Smith shouldn't take all the blame but definitely needs to take his share without excuses. This is a quarterback league and we need one.This is a qb league. And we have never had one since Gannon. Biggest blunder in memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KC Slider Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I liked Trent Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I liked Trent Green He was solid. He made some big mistakes at times in the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slider 2 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Of course, that's the KC Way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kychief 239 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 back to wilkies question.. where the hell is allen? is he now taking up residence in stepehensons doghouse?..this coaching staff can be damn befuddling at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WichitaZRide 321 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Its funny....the fans of just about every team in the NFL are complaining about their O-Lines right now. I've seen numerous articles on the demise of the o-line due to colleges being in the spread offense vs pro-style....just like QBs. The fact is...o-line play is down everywhere, but talent elsewhere is making up for it. QB's are getting rid of the ball much quicker. All the rules regarding pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact, etc, are allowing WRs to get open much quicker... The only thing I know is that Alex Smith is broken regardless of the oline. If I were to evaluate all the sacks Alex Smith has taken since the beginning of 2014....I bet I could see some trends that happen much more often than not: Players being open on the field at the time of the sack Alex Smith dancing around being chased by invisible players well before anyone was close to him Alex Holding onto the ball much longer than he should be while other QBs would have already gotten rid of the ball... Another thing to consider. Here are the 10 most sacked QBs of all time: 1. Brett Favre 2. John Elway 3. Dave Kreig 4. Randall Cunningham 5. Phil Simms 6. Drew Bledsoe 7. Warren Moon 8. Ben Rothlisberger 9. Vinny Testaverde 10. Donovan McNabb Do you notice something in this group? Super Bowl Winners....MVP's....All-Pros.....Hall of Famers.... From the looks of these numbers these guys has some really crappy lines in front of them, and STILL made it happen. For all of you that watched the game yesterday....how many absolutely AWFUL passes did Alex Smith throw yesterday? Many of which with nobody anywhere near him. My point....maybe if Alex Smith played like a REAL NFL QB, our O-Line wouldn't look as bad as it does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Its funny....the fans of just about every team in the NFL are complaining about their O-Lines right now. I've seen numerous articles on the demise of the o-line due to colleges being in the spread offense vs pro-style....just like QBs. The fact is...o-line play is down everywhere, but talent elsewhere is making up for it. QB's are getting rid of the ball much quicker. All the rules regarding pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact, etc, are allowing WRs to get open much quicker... The only thing I know is that Alex Smith is broken regardless of the oline. If I were to evaluate all the sacks Alex Smith has taken since the beginning of 2014....I bet I could see some trends that happen much more often than not: Players being open on the field at the time of the sack Alex Smith dancing around being chased by invisible players well before anyone was close to him Alex Holding onto the ball much longer than he should be while other QBs would have already gotten rid of the ball... Another thing to consider. Here are the 10 most sacked QBs of all time:1. Brett Favre 2. John Elway 3. Dave Kreig 4. Randall Cunningham 5. Phil Simms 6. Drew Bledsoe 7. Warren Moon 8. Ben Rothlisberger 9. Vinny Testaverde 10. Donovan McNabb Do you notice something in this group? Super Bowl Winners....MVP's....All-Pros.....Hall of Famers.... From the looks of these numbers these guys has some really crappy lines in front of them, and STILL made it happen. For all of you that watched the game yesterday....how many absolutely AWFUL passes did Alex Smith throw yesterday? Many of which with nobody anywhere near him. My point....maybe if Alex Smith played like a REAL NFL QB, our O-Line wouldn't look as bad as it does... Yes, Smith does not belong in that list. He's not a great quarterback. I would look at sacks per dropback versus total sacks because those players played a lot of games. Michael Jordan has one of the most misses, but he played a long time and shot a lot. Smith is been in the league for a long time but he has missed a lot of games. Plus, were they consistent sack numbers or were they're really bad lines some years and better lines the other years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Its funny....the fans of just about every team in the NFL are complaining about their O-Lines right now. I've seen numerous articles on the demise of the o-line due to colleges being in the spread offense vs pro-style....just like QBs. The fact is...o-line play is down everywhere, but talent elsewhere is making up for it. QB's are getting rid of the ball much quicker. All the rules regarding pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact, etc, are allowing WRs to get open much quicker... The only thing I know is that Alex Smith is broken regardless of the oline. If I were to evaluate all the sacks Alex Smith has taken since the beginning of 2014....I bet I could see some trends that happen much more often than not: Players being open on the field at the time of the sack Alex Smith dancing around being chased by invisible players well before anyone was close to him Alex Holding onto the ball much longer than he should be while other QBs would have already gotten rid of the ball... Another thing to consider. Here are the 10 most sacked QBs of all time: 1. Brett Favre 2. John Elway 3. Dave Kreig 4. Randall Cunningham 5. Phil Simms 6. Drew Bledsoe 7. Warren Moon 8. Ben Rothlisberger 9. Vinny Testaverde 10. Donovan McNabb Do you notice something in this group? Super Bowl Winners....MVP's....All-Pros.....Hall of Famers.... From the looks of these numbers these guys has some really crappy lines in front of them, and STILL made it happen. For all of you that watched the game yesterday....how many absolutely AWFUL passes did Alex Smith throw yesterday? Many of which with nobody anywhere near him. My point....maybe if Alex Smith played like a REAL NFL QB, our O-Line wouldn't look as bad as it does... Tough post for a couple guys here to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Alex Smith is part of the problem. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Maybe if our involved owner would hold his peeps accountable instead is just letting them run around like a bunch of hussies.... He will when the outcry gets loud enough, or when empty seats become more prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I am sad we are arguing which is worse, Smith or the line. No decent offense has a line that has played this bad. No decent offense has a QB that has played this bad. It's a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Its starts with Hunts. They SUCK at running an NFL TEAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Alex Smith is part of the problem. w Far and away the biggest problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 303Chiefs Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 He will when the outcry gets loud enough, or when empty seats become more prevalent. Stud, it'll never happen. Unless guys on this board either stop going for reasons I hope don't happen for a long time, OR they will their tickets down and whoever gets them says, "fuck this shit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Far and away the biggest problem. Smith the biggest problem? He sure was not Sunday. Sure he is not special. Fat Andy, Mr Cheeseburger is the BIGGER BIGGER BIGGER problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Whi;le at the Bears game some Bears fans and I got into a friendly debate on who's QB sucks the most. 1/2 way through the 3rd qrtr they agreed with me..our QB sucks big green puddy balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Tough post for a couple guys here to swallow. I won't "swallow" it because all of those quarterbacks played for excellent teams. It's a meaningless stat, seeing as some of those quarterbacks didn't even have good years or great post-seasons when their team won the Super Bowl. Statistics that commend by association are not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I won't "swallow" it because all of those quarterbacks played for excellent teams. It's a meaningless stat, seeing as some of those quarterbacks didn't even have good years or great post-seasons when their team won the Super Bowl. Statistics that commend by association are not relevant. Man you are in so deep with Alex. Will you be moving on from the chiefs when Alex is gone like the you jumped ship on the niners? You are the only person left on earth who thinks Alex smith is good. You lack humility and won't admit you are wrong about Alex. And for the above, those "teams" included THE qb's listed above making them a component of such"team" Alex lacking skills, hurts the "team" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Here's my opinion on the offensive line.... Eric Fisher is better at Right Tackle than he is at Left Tackle. Fish has been playing rather solid football this year and if the right side is where he has to remain the rest of his career to be a good football player, then so be it. It's upsetting that he isn't a franchise left tackle, but he isn't a complete bust either. Donald Stephenson is not a very good football player. What makes the "Fisher situation" so damn infuriating isn't that he's been sucking total ass, its that Fisher was drafted to be the franchise left tackle and now they've had to stick this clown Stephenson on the left side. I don't know what happened in the past couple of years to make Stephenson go from looking like he had a legitimate future on the left side to absolute crap, but its happened. Fisher was a better left tackle than Stephenson. Whoever plays right guard sucks. It doesn't seem to matter who is in there at the position, its a bad situation. This is, arguably, the absolute worst position on the team. Also, Grubbs is not that good of a pass blocker on the left side. I've said it time and again, and I'll say it again now: the most important pieces to a good offensive line in the NFL are the guards. These are the people that, when they suck, allow the instant pressure into the QB's face and are the ones that don't allow the QB a pocket to step up into as the tackles ride their men outside. If you want a good offensive line in the NFL, get good guards. If I had to recommend a plan for KC going into 2016, it'd be to draft two young guards relatively early on, say rounds 2 and 3. The Center position with Mitch Morse is going to be a learning experience. We all knew this heading in. What I can say is that Morse has played very well for a rookie and the future looks incredibly bright. However, there are problems right now. He gives up some pressures inside and communication on stunts and blitzes is lacking. Between the problems at guard and having a young center, this team isn't going anywhere fast this season. Too much inside pressure. Bottom line is that I don't think the tackles are half as much the problem as the guards are right now, even though there needs to be a definite upgrade on the left side. One absolute certainty is that the Chiefs must address the guard position heading into 2016 or whomever they start at QB will be in for another long year. You wrote exactly what I would of said, just with more words lol Grubbs has been declining since shortly after signing with NO. Ozzie is smart and passed on him for a reason. The Chiefs took one positive game from Ldt and went all in. Bad idea. They should have been on the phone with Evan Mathis the moment he was released. Stephenson, idk. Wonder if the injuries piled up on him, as his play from the start and now is ridiculously different. I think Fisher is a puss and still teetering on the busy fence, but right now he isn't the problem. Morse has been up and down. Like any rookie, ever. The biggest problem IMO is the line coach, Andy Heck. Why we hired him from a Jags team that suffered a lot from bad line play, no idea. It blew my mind when the hire was made and why hes on the team I will never know. They constantly look lost and confused, week in week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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