wilkie 1,518 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 How amazing is Phillip Rivers during crunch time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 How amazing is Phillip Rivers during crunch time? He is, but I wouldn't give him his due after yesterday's game. The reason is because if our quarterback did that, he wouldn't be praised for getting to the one. You might say that Rivers has established himself and has done it many times. And Smith hasn't. However, I am talking about getting Smith credit for getting to the one once (he's done it before like in the Denver game in 2013, but I'm only talking hypothetically anyway) versus getting Rivers credit for getting to the one and for everything else. He already gets credit for everything else. The frequency of doing it should get his proportional praise over other quarterbacks. Why should he get credit for not scoring the touchdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 That last throw to end the game was PERFECT, I mean you cannot place a ball any better. It was just dropped. Rivers is still great when he needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 How amazing is Phillip Rivers during crunch time? The 3 fourth down conversions drove me crazy on the last drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qnet 1,150 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah, he's a really good QB. I've always been impressed with him. I think he's better than Eli Manning, he just hasn't had the team or circumstances go his way. The Chargers were a formidable team a few years ago, and they owned the division for a while. I remember when the Chiefs would lose these type of games to them, due to Rivers. KCSLC2008, I understand what you're saying but, I think you answered your own question. Rivers has done it to the Chiefs time and time again. It didn't matter that he actually didn't do it this time, but he came really close to doing it. Like Bstud said, that pass was just in the right spot. Luckily D Ford did barely just enough to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah, he's a really good QB. I've always been impressed with him. I think he's better than Eli Manning, he just hasn't had the team or circumstances go his way. The Chargers were a formidable team a few years ago, and they owned the division for a while. I remember when the Chiefs would lose these type of games to them, due to Rivers. KCSLC2008, I understand what you're saying but, I think you answered your own question. Rivers has done it to the Chiefs time and time again. It didn't matter that he actually didn't do it this time, but he came really close to doing it. Like Bstud said, that pass was just in the right spot. Luckily D Ford did barely just enough to stop it. If he does it many times to others and to us and will possibly do it again to us, I prefer to wait for those occasions to praise him. My point was that if I praise him every time he does it and he does it more often than other quarterbacks, he'll get more praise than other quarterbacks. If people add on giving him praise for when he doesn't do it, albeit if it was defensive play credit or player drop, their mouth would get too tired. For example, in 2013 in our first game, Smith lead a touchdown drive to put us ahead with the minute and 30 seconds left. Rivers marched down the field and scored the winning touchdown. Nobody gave Smith credit for getting us the lead. He got us a lead and he gets no credit. Rivers doesn't get the lead in this case or the tie and he's getting credit. Smith and our running backs got us the lead against Denver this year in the first Denver game and then Manning ties it and due to Charles fumble, Mannings touchdown, despite questionable referee calls, becomes his revival and a game-winning touchdown even though he only tied it. Against Buffalo and Seattle last year, we got the lead and the defense held our opponents on goal line stands. Defense deserves credit, but the offense got no credit for getting the lead. I'm fine with that, but now we give credit for almost getting there? Add on that it would be only a tie and not a win? If we are going to start getting credit for almost doing it, Smith has almost done it a few times here, notably almost all Denver games. Smith has been let down by his supporting cast before too (not saying perfect throws dropped, it could be fumbles, etc.). All I'm saying is give credit every time it is done and it'll take care of itself. Those who do it frequently will get more credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qnet 1,150 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If he does it many times to others and to us and will possibly do it again to us, I prefer to wait for those occasions to praise him. My point was that if I praise him every time he does it and he does it more often than other quarterbacks, he'll get more praise than other quarterbacks. If people add on giving him praise for when he doesn't do it, albeit if it was defensive play credit or player drop, their mouth would get too tired. For example, in 2013 in our first game, Smith lead a touchdown drive to put us ahead with the minute and 30 seconds left. Rivers marched down the field and scored the winning touchdown. Nobody gave Smith credit for getting us the lead. He got us a lead and he gets no credit. Rivers doesn't get the lead in this case or the tie and he's getting credit. Smith and our running backs got us the lead against Denver this year in the first Denver game and than Manning ties it and due to Charles fumble, Mannings touchdown, despite questionable referee calls, becomes his revival and a game-winning touchdown even though he only tied it. Against Buffalo and Seattle last year, we got the lead and the defense held our opponents on goal line stands. Defense deserves credit, but the offense got no credit for getting the lead. I'm fine with that, but now we give credit for almost getting there? Add on that it would be only a tie and not a win. If we are going to start getting credit for almost doing it, Smith has almost done it a few times here, notably almost allDenver games. Smith has been let down by his supporting cast before too (not saying perfect throws dropped, it could be fumbles, etc.). All I'm saying is give credit every time it is done and it'll take care of itself. Those who do it frequently will get more credit. Yeah, but it seems like you're making it more about Alex Smith getting credit or not versus just giving Rivers credit for being a clutch & accurate QB. Like I mentioned, I understand what you're trying to say (at least I think I do) but I don't totally agree with your examples. They're not necessarily bad examples, I just don't think they completely line up with what wilkie was complimenting Rivers for. Alex Smith, who I like as the Chiefs QB; has lead drives downfield to help the Chiefs. Having said that, I can't remember when he's done it in a final drive were the Chiefs absolutely had to score, when there would be no more possessions by either team, unless it went to overtime. Every time I remember him being in that situation with the Chiefs, he's failed. Remember the Niners game last year? The Chiefs played the 49ners really well that game, and Smith had a chance to stick it to his old team in the final drive. He couldn't handle it, threw an interception, and it was game over. I agree that the defense deserves credit, for the other games you mentioned. I think that's the thing that makes some people doubt Alex Smith. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, in fact I know he can. The pass to Vernon Davis in the playoff game against the Saints, was one of the best I've seen. He just hasn't done it with the Chiefs. I think Wilkie was just admiring Rivers play as a football fan. It just seems like a courtesy to the other team's player in a loss. I don't know Wilike personally, other than on the forum, but if the Chiefs lost, I don't think he would have started a thread about how great a QB Rivers is, or how clutch his play was. He'd be upset like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcchief4lif 910 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yep.. That dude has killed them more than once at arrowhead like that. ALWAYS a major pain in the ass.. This time it didn't quite work out. Fun thing about it, that is 4 wins in a row against the bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah, but it seems like you're making it more about Alex Smith getting credit or not versus just giving Rivers credit for being a clutch & accurate QB. Like I mentioned, I understand what you're trying to say (at least I think I do) but I don't totally agree with your examples. They're not necessarily bad examples, I just don't think they completely line up with what wilkie was complimenting Rivers for. Alex Smith, who I like as the Chiefs QB; has lead drives downfield to help the Chiefs. Having said that, I can't remember when he's done it in a final drive were the Chiefs absolutely had to score, when there would be no more possessions by either team, unless it went to overtime. Every time I remember him being in that situation with the Chiefs, he's failed. Remember the Niners game last year? The Chiefs played the 49ners really well that game, and Smith had a chance to stick it to his old team in the final drive. He couldn't handle it, threw an interception, and it was game over. I agree that the defense deserves credit, for the other games you mentioned. I think that's the thing that makes some people doubt Alex Smith. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, in fact I know he can. The pass to Vernon Davis in the playoff game against the Saints, was one of the best I've seen. He just hasn't done it with the Chiefs. I think Wilkie was just admiring Rivers play as a football fan. It just seems like a courtesy to the other team's player in a loss. I don't know Wilike personally, other than on the forum, but if the Chiefs lost, I don't think he would have started a thread about how great a QB Rivers is, or how clutch his play was. He'd be upset like the rest of us. It isn't about giving Smith any credit. He doesn't deserve the credit because he hasn't done it here. Frankly, I don't think anyone deserves it if they don't do it. Not even Smith. And then when Rivers does do it, I would give him credit. Perhaps it feels weird to praise someone for being close, especially if they are great enough to do it. They give him enough credit regardless of how great their receivers do to catch hard passes like the Third and 14. He deserves credit for the throw and they deserve credit for the catch. I give him credit for the final throw and I give a little blame to the receiver. But I give the most credit to Dee Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Rivers carried that squad to those 3 wins. One guy just can't carry another 52 guys for 16 games. That's why I said people were nuts if they qould take Smith over Rivers. Not a slight on Alex, it's just Rivers would have multiple Super Bowl rings and Canton bound if he didn't play for a dogshit franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 That last throw to end the game was PERFECT, I mean you cannot place a ball any better. It was just dropped. Rivers is still great when he needs to be. was it just dropped or was the coverage just a tad more perfect than the throw?..was'nt a camera there to show us a good angle but the way the ball accelerated it appears to be punched out..just my interpetation maybe somewhere there is a better camera angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 When the Chargers got to the 1/2 yd. line, I thought of all the times I've yelled at Reid for not just running the ball in. Sure, the Chiefs are one of the best defenses on short yardage run prevention, but if a team can't make 18 inches on the majority of the plays, they don't deserve to win. I almost cheered when SAN went empty backfield. After the penalty, it became a moot point, but even the best coaches often get stupid when they get close to the goal line. Rivers may be clutch, but the shortest way to a tie game would have been on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Three minutes to go in the half Rivers ran off the field, and straight to the locker room. He had the flu coming into the game, and played anyway. Who wants to bet Rivers had to go with a second pair of pants for the second half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 He converted three times on fourth down. To me, that is what puts him in the great category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 He converted three times on fourth down. To me, that is what puts him in the great category. Yeah, he's great. Our defense was great too, otherwise he would've converted on the first three downs. But the pressure sure is on on fourth downs and when you are in four down territory, you don't always go for the whole thing on the first three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 He converted three times on fourth down. To me, that is what puts him in the great category. Converting fourth downs against Sutton's bend-then-break defense is not impressive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Converting fourth downs against Sutton's bend-then-break defense is not impressive to me.He loses his mind as much as Reid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 When the Chargers got to the 1/2 yd. line, I thought of all the times I've yelled at Reid for not just running the ball in. Sure, the Chiefs are one of the best defenses on short yardage run prevention, but if a team can't make 18 inches on the majority of the plays, they don't deserve to win. I almost cheered when SAN went empty backfield. After the penalty, it became a moot point, but even the best coaches often get stupid when they get close to the goal line. Rivers may be clutch, but the shortest way to a tie game would have been on the ground. Those Fuckers were gonna go for 2 and the win. Glad we stopped them from getting into the endzone. Loss would have been on Reid anyways. The only thing concerning with this game was the penalties - although good teams succumb to the weather at times. A win's a win - i'll take it any day. Good teams win those game IMO and the Chiefs did just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 He loses his mind as much as Reid. Should have blitzed Rivers. Guy is immobile. Not too mention SD's receivers caught everything on that drive - give them credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Should have blitzed Rivers. Guy is immobile. Not too mention SD's receivers caught everything on that drive - give them credit. We did second twice. But yes, we could've taken advantage. I hope he coached his players not to hit Rivers after the pass on the last attempt. I was really happy that we did get some stupid penalty at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysChiefs 82 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I come to bury Phyllis, not to praise her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 What has Rivers ever won? He is far from great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 605 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 What has Rivers ever won? He is far from great. He has put up numbers, won some, and made some people better, but has never won like the greats. My guess is that great is used loosely and relatively and we make a lot of assumptions on how he would do with a better team. It is a benefit of the doubt thing. There are so many variables that go into winning a championship. If you look at it, Favre, Manning, Rodgers only won one Super Bowl each and some of them had good teams and all them are great, so we can't assume that Rivers would have won, but he's played well and would have better results if he had better teams around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I like him but he is not great. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Rivers, to me, is one of the elite level QBs in the NFL. Its a shame for him that his surrounding cast is literally dog shit. He reminds me so much of Brett Favre in terms of passion for the game. Rivers needs to get out of San Diego, they are imploding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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