Alex Smith's

[DefensiveMan 758]

The Chiefs and Niners have had very similar roster the past few years from 2012-14 I would say until the Niners recent downfall. Before Kaeperjack took over for Alex Smith he last led the Niners over the Saints in a divisional round matchup. They then lost the conference Championship to the Giants on a fumble by PR Kyle Williams.

 

Who has the better roster: Let's take a look at each position starting with the head coaches.

 

Head Coach: Reid vs Harbaugh - Advantage Chiefs.

 

QB: Alex Smith as a Chief > Alex Smith as Niner - Advantage Chiefs.

 

RBS: West / Ware vs Gore / Dixon - Advantage Niners 

 

FB: Sherman vs Bruce Miller - Wash

 

WRS: Maclin vs Crabtree - Advantage Chiefs.

 

TES: Kelce vs V. Davis - Wash

 

O- Line: Advantage Niners

 

D-Line: Advantage Chiefs.

 

LBS: Wash - Only reason I say because Navorro Bowman and Patrick Willis were absolute studs together.

 

DBS: Advantage Chiefs - Big advantage.

 

STS: Wash.

 

Overall, you look at our Chiefs roster and immediately you see upgrades in the Defensive Backfield and perhaps D-Line. Alex Smith is more experienced. The Niners only had a real advantage with their O-Line (Boone at LT) and perhaps RBs when Gore was younger and more agile whereas the Chiefs clear advantages in 5 positional spots including the QB not too mention Reid > Harbaugh. That Niners team went 13-3, however the Chiefs could have easily been that or better. Now Alex Smith will take the field in NE against Foxborough with more experience under his belt. Best of all he and the whole team are having fun! If it wasn't for Kyle Williams fumbling twice Alex Smith would have started in the SB in 2012. I think he'll make the most of his opportunity this weekend.

 

What are your takes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DefensiveMan 758]

All you Gurus can glady go into detail on each position. I'd love too, but i'm sure some of you have more insight 

[DefensiveMan 758]

I see we have a phantom vote for the Niners here. 

[azchief21 5,278]

I didn't follow the forty whiners. Saw a couple games Smith played in and did a little research after we acquired him. He has played well lately and has a helluva team around him right now. 

[kcchief4lif 910]

I'm voting niners until he gets to a Championship game.

[eraser 722]

The deciding factor for me was team depth. The Chiefs are deeper. Also, there is a stronger, deeper commitment with the Chiefs than with the old 49ers.

[qnet 1,150]

I like this. 

 

 Right now at a glance, the teams are pretty even, except for the OLine, the Niners were definitely better. The defense is harder to tell. They had Patrick Willis who is better than any LB we have right now, and NoVorro Bowman is no slouch either.  The DLine I think the Chiefs might have the edge, when you add their rotation with Bailey & Jay Howard. The Niners probably had a good rotation also but, without watching them back then, all I could go on is stats. I think the Chiefs D line is more comparable to the Seahawks the way they rotate players.

 

On offense, as I mentioned, the Niners Oline was better, much better. The skill positions, it get's closer, with the Chiefs having an edge IMO. Maclin, when healthy, is better than Crabtree IMO. I also think Kelce is better than Vernon Davis was back then. Frank Gore alone beats out the West/Ware combo, but I believe that could be argued also. The rushing totals are identical, 2044 yards for the year, for both teams.

 

I also think Alex Smith is a better QB than he was back then.

 

Haha! I got so excited, and began typing right away;  I didn't bother to see you had already pretty much broke it down. We agree on mostly everything, but  think Kelce is better than Davis. Coaching is close, I think Harbaugh is pretty good, he's just kind of weird. 

[PhataLerror 370]

Earlier in the season, I pondered this question and decided outright that the 2011 49ers had a better roster than the 2015 Chiefs. When Jamaal Charles went down for the season, I was even more convinced that Smith was captaining an inferior team in Kansas City. Meanwhile, the Chiefs' defense began to settle down after the return of Sean Smith from suspension and the recovery of Dontari Poe after injury. It's almost a dead heat between these teams now, although the Chiefs have more star players on defense than those 49ers did, while the 49ers had better players on offense. The role players of either team were of a similar caliber. The kickers and punters were an important part of both teams. The 49ers had an excellent rotation of players on their defensive front that gave them scheme versatility despite the liabilities that existed in the secondary. The 49ers' offensive line was slightly better than what the Chiefs have shown throughout the year, but there was no depth to that line. The 49ers' roster had significantly more experience in their starting lineups.

 

I would give the edge to San Francisco for the reason that the San Francisco team was mostly healthy in the post-season, while Justin Houston, Tamba Hali, and Jeremy Maclin are nicked up.

 

While the roles position for position were not the same between these two teams, I considered the following to be "star players", players who would have produced well on other teams with similar schemes but employing inferior talent:

 

49ers' Offense:

Frank Gore

Vernon Davis

Joe Staley

Mike Iupati

 

49ers' Defense:

Justin Smith

Aldon Smith

NaVorro Bowman

Patrick Willis

Donte Whitner

 

Chiefs' Offense:

Eric Fisher

Jeremy Maclin

Travis Kelce

 

Chiefs' Defense:

Dontari Poe

Justin Houston

Tamba Hali

Derrick Johnson

Sean Smith

Marcus Peters

Eric Berry

 

If we were assuming that both teams were being compared with their complete starting lineups at full health, I would have given the edge to Kansas City. That 49ers team was remarkably healthy throughout 2011. Offensive points scored was very similar between these two teams, but offensive points allowed greatly favored the 49ers' defense.

[PhataLerror 370]

I like this. 

 

 Right now at a glance, the teams are pretty even, except for the OLine, the Niners were definitely better. The defense is harder to tell. They had Patrick Willis who is better than any LB we have right now, and NoVorro Bowman is no slouch either.  The DLine I think the Chiefs might have the edge, when you add their rotation with Bailey & Jay Howard. The Niners probably had a good rotation also but, without watching them back then, all I could go on is stats. I think the Chiefs D line is more comparable to the Seahawks the way they rotate players.

 

On offense, as I mentioned, the Niners Oline was better, much better. The skill positions, it get's closer, with the Chiefs having an edge IMO. Maclin, when healthy, is better than Crabtree IMO. I also think Kelce is better than Vernon Davis was back then. Frank Gore alone beats out the West/Ware combo, but I believe that could be argued also. The rushing totals are identical, 2044 yards for the year, for both teams.

 

I also think Alex Smith is a better QB than he was back then.

 

Haha! I got so excited, and began typing right away;  I didn't bother to see you had already pretty much broke it down. We agree on mostly everything, but  think Kelce is better than Davis. Coaching is close, I think Harbaugh is pretty good, he's just kind of weird. 

I'll just add a few things to this:

 

One of the things that made Vernon Davis so good that year was his ability as a run blocker. Travis Kelce just doesn't compare well there. The other difference: Kelce would drop caught balls, while Davis might not catch them in the first place. I would say that Davis in 2011 was a better, more complete player than Kelce in 2015.

 

The 49ers' defensive line was very, very good. The 49ers played through the first fourteen weeks of that season without giving up a single rushing touchdown. That season, you benched premier fantasy runningbacks when they played against the 49ers.

 

Frank Gore was an excellent back in pass protection, and in 2011, he could run between or outside of the tackles. Play for play, Gore brought more onto the field with him than West or Ware can individually at this point in their careers.

 

Crabtree couldn't hold a candle to Maclin. Crabtree was 49ers Smith's Dwayne Bowe: It was easier to commend him for his downfield run blocking than for his actual ability as a receiver.

 

Maclin's presence has proved to make up for a lot of what is missing on the Chiefs' offense in either talent or experience. Of all the things I said in connection with the Chiefs in 2015, my statements about Maclin are the ones I'd like to take back: He was not overpaid to come to Kansas City. He has played up to his contract.

[DieHard 2,061]

I think V. Davis was a product of Smith rather than the opposite. Smith had the same suscess without Davis. Davis went from top in the game to nothing without Smith.

[PhataLerror 370]

I think V. Davis was a product of Smith rather than the opposite. Smith had the same suscess without Davis. Davis went from top in the game to nothing without Smith.

I've heard that argument before. It's a very difficult one to evaluate for at least two reasons.

 

The first one is that Vernon Davis was an overwhelming talent at his position. He did occasionally drop passes, and he wasn't elusive, but he was highly versatile in the running game and a significant threat at the seams. As a football player, he had many of the things you look for. I would argue that his ability never was commensurate with his talent, but he was hardly nothing. In 2013, Vernon Davis caught 13 touchdown receptions, and his quarterback that year was Colin Kaepernick.

 

Second, some people claim that there are actually two incarnations of Vernon Davis: The one that came before, and the one that came after this hit. This happened on a Kaepernick dart during the final game against the Seahawks in the 2012 season, placing it before Davis' 13 touchdown outburst in 2013. On the other hand, in Vernon Davis' next six games against the Seahawks, he posted a total of 13 receptions, 131 yards, and 1 touchdown (an average of 2.2 receptions,  21.8 yards, and 0.2 touchdowns per game), nothing like the production he got over his preceding six games with a much more considerate Alex Smith: 28 receptions, 355 yards, and 2 touchdowns. (The 2013-2015 Seahawks defenses were superior to those of the 2009-2012 Seahawks.) There is the belief that Davis' concentration has suffered for that hit.

 

It is also important to note that Vernon Davis held out of much of the 49ers' 2014 off-season training program, and that his precipitous drop-off also coincided with the collapse of Colin Kaepernick as he proved to be solved by a growing number of league defensive coordinators.

 

When the 49ers were looking to move Vernon Davis, I was hoping that he might end up with the Chiefs as a steal, but I didn't really know if getting a new quarterback would have improved Davis' concentration issues. Davis has played in 15 games in 2015, and has yet to record a touchdown reception, although playing for Brock Osweiler instead of Colin Kaepernick really isn't much of an upgrade, and having to learn a new offensive system mid-season certainly didn't help (and shouldn't count for too much against) Vernon Davis.

[DefensiveMan 758]

I've heard that argument before. It's a very difficult one to evaluate for at least two reasons.

 

The first one is that Vernon Davis was an overwhelming talent at his position. He did occasionally drop passes, and he wasn't elusive, but he was highly versatile in the running game and a significant threat at the seams. As a football player, he had many of the things you look for. I would argue that his ability never was commensurate with his talent, but he was hardly nothing. In 2013, Vernon Davis caught 13 touchdown receptions, and his quarterback that year was Colin Kaepernick.

 

Second, some people claim that there are actually two incarnations of Vernon Davis: The one that came before, and the one that came after this hit. This happened on a Kaepernick dart during the final game against the Seahawks in the 2012 season, placing it before Davis' 13 touchdown outburst in 2013. On the other hand, in Vernon Davis' next six games against the Seahawks, he posted a total of 13 receptions, 131 yards, and 1 touchdown (an average of 2.2 receptions,  21.8 yards, and 0.2 touchdowns per game), nothing like the production he got over his preceding six games with a much more considerate Alex Smith: 28 receptions, 355 yards, and 2 touchdowns. (The 2013-2015 Seahawks defenses were superior to those of the 2009-2012 Seahawks.) There is the belief that Davis' concentration has suffered for that hit.

 

It is also important to note that Vernon Davis held out of much of the 49ers' 2014 off-season training program, and that his precipitous drop-off also coincided with the collapse of Colin Kaepernick as he proved to be solved by a growing number of league defensive coordinators.

 

When the 49ers were looking to move Vernon Davis, I was hoping that he might end up with the Chiefs as a steal, but I didn't really know if getting a new quarterback would have improved Davis' concentration issues. Davis has played in 15 games in 2015, and has yet to record a touchdown reception, although playing for Brock Osweiler instead of Colin Kaepernick really isn't much of an upgrade, and having to learn a new offensive system mid-season certainly didn't help (and shouldn't count for too much against) Vernon Davis.

 

The Niners also had Delaney Walker as a 2nd TE threat. He took a lot of pressure off of Davis with his catching and route running ability. You could say the move he made in FA to sign with Tennessee hurt Davis somewhat because Vance McDonald wasn't nearly as good as Walker.

That being said: I think Demetrius Harris has all the abilities to be an excellent complimentary player to Kelce. He blocks just as good as any TE in the league and his size and athletic ability could make him a dark-horse. For Alex Smith to be as effective as possible he'll need two solid pass-catching TE's like he had in 2011. Look out for Harris this weekend in NE, he's gonna step up big if Kelce is doubled repeatedly. Alex, loves his TE's and will find him.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Vernon Davis was sore, got hurt, held out and wasn't looked at by Kaepernick like Alex Smith did.

 

The 2011 49ers roster is better than the Chiefs roster.

[DefensiveMan 758]

Vernon Davis was sore, got hurt, held out and wasn't looked at by Kaepernick like Alex Smith did.

 

The 2011 49ers roster is better than the Chiefs roster.

That may be true, but did they have the heart, comradory, and drive that this Chiefs team has now? The difference is this Chiefs team has been through hell and back.

[Calichief 3,016]

Vernon Davis was sore, got hurt, held out and wasn't looked at by Kaepernick like Alex Smith did.

 

The 2011 49ers roster is better than the Chiefs roster.

I think it's split.

[eraser 722]

Vernon Davis was sore, got hurt, held out and wasn't looked at by Kaepernick like Alex Smith did.

 

The 2011 49ers roster is better than the Chiefs roster.

I have heard it both ways. 

[KCSLC2008 606]

[azchief21 5,278]

That was a short film but some great catches

[KCSLC2008 606]

That was a short film but some great catches

I posted this on the Scout board: I know, I know - not very deep, not that many, some would be TDs if thrown better, just trying to make a Highlights thread, geez!

[azchief21 5,278]

I posted this on the Scout board: I know, I know - not very deep, not that many, some would be TDs if thrown better, just trying to make a Highlights thread, geez!

Alex Smith is a Chief which makes him my favorite QB. Thanks for the highlights!

[KCSLC2008 606]

Alex Smith is a Chief which makes him my favorite QB. Thanks for the highlights!

A little off-topic, but how are people in Arizona taking the Cardinals loss? Specifically about Palmer? (Or have you moved from Arizona?) I'm not comparing Smith to Palmer, and in fact, I went to USC, so I wanted him to succeed (except I didn't like his holdout with the Bengals or his fake retirement to leave the Raiders). I wanted Cassel to succeed too, but only as a Chief, because he never took a snap in college at USC; I wasn't attached.

[azchief21 5,278]

A little off-topic, but how are people in Arizona taking the Cardinals loss? Specifically about Palmer? (Or have you moved from Arizona?) I'm not comparing Smith to Palmer, and in fact, I went to USC, so I wanted him to succeed (except I didn't like his holdout with the Bengals or his fake retirement to leave the Raiders). I wanted Cassel to succeed too, but only as a Chief, because he never took a snap in college at USC; I wasn't attached.

Yes I'm still in AZ. For the most part the fans were upset about getting killed but appreciated the season overall. Most feel bad for Fitz. Very positive attitude toward Arians as a coach. The fans around here are pretty bandwagonish. Much like the Seattle Chicken Dogs, I think there will be a lot of broken ankles from people jumping off the bandwagon if the losing starts. Here in the Valley of the Sun we have many fans from somewhere else. At any given home game, a large percentage of the crowd will be opponents fans. Especially the Dallas Cokeboys. Annoying.

[KCSLC2008 606]

It doesn't seem like the Phoenix Sun's management is any good and I haven't heard much from the fans. But then again, I haven't been looking for it. Every few months, somebody is reported to want out. Their coach didn't even decline interest in his alma mater coaching job (Iowa) -  I think it was lip-service, but the fact that I can't tell shows that his job is not enviable.

[azchief21 5,278]

It doesn't seem like the Phoenix Sun's management is any good and I haven't heard much from the fans. But then again, I haven't been looking for it. Every few months, somebody is reported to want out. Their coach didn't even decline interest in his alma mater coaching job (Iowa) -  I think it was lip-service, but the fact that I can't tell shows that his job is not enviable.

You probably thought I meant Valley of the Sun means Phoenix Suns. It's just a nickname for our metro area. Suns have sucked for a while though. Was fun back in the Barkley days. Ownership is terrible. I'm a D Backs fan though and we literally bought the 2001 World Series. Randy Johnson, Schilling, Gonzo, Matt Williams, etc. Lots of back loaded contracts that took years after they retired to pay off. But a championship was worth it.

[KCSLC2008 606]

I totally skipped over your Valley of the Sun comment. I mean, I read it, but it didn't register. I was thinking of your comment on how fans will leave when the team is bad. Reminded me of the NBA team.

 

I can't quote or copy and paste on this site on the work's browser. Well, I can copy, but no pasting.