If You Could Keep Just One: Jamaal Charles or Sean Smith

[kcchief4lif 910]

Seeing how Pats and Donks have had success with problem children Pac-man would not be totally out of the realm of possibilities.  Just not sure how desperate the chiefs would be??

[Bilyous2 884]

If Sean Smith signs elsewhere but the Chiefs don't manage to sign a free agent of significant fame, the Chiefs could receive an early-round compensatory pick. If Jamaal Charles had not just been injured, he would have been worth a second-round draft pick. The suggestion that he would be worth a fourth-round seems like a valid estimate.

 

The Chiefs are actually in a very good position to milk the compensatory picks system this off-season.

 

For what it's worth, I can't imagine that the Chiefs will start 2016 without Jamaal Charles, but it's interesting how one season without Jamaal Charles provided objective evidence of his value relative to other players.

That's a really good point.  Leverage for compensatory draft picks will increase greatly this year and give Dorsey a lot of leverage to work with.  He has shown good draft sense and negotiating skills.  Plus the team has insider knowledge about players' true injury status, performance curves, personal problems, etc.  As fans, we don't have most of that in-depth info, so we question all the moves and scream about it when we don't like it.  It seems like there is so much football knowledge among the guys on this forum, because so many have played the game.  But when it comes to draft picks, judging value of players and prospects, contract conditions, working cap space, and building for the long term instead of the next year, none of us know much but post like we are experts.  The team has done so well since this regime took over, that they have earned the benefit of the doubt.

[eraser 722]

I think Jamaal will take a pay cut in order to stay in KC. 

[Chiefmania 22]

I agree with Eraser.  I think JC actually restructures his contract for a lower amount over 3-4 years.  That is my hope at least.  I think he is still an explosive weapon, and can be another factor in this team getting to the Super Bowl.

[eraser 722]

I agree with Eraser.  I think JC actually restructures his contract for a lower amount over 3-4 years.  That is my hope at least.  I think he is still an explosive weapon, and can be another factor in this team getting to the Super Bowl.

A few years ago, Charles probably did not want to be in Kansas City. There were too many hurtful reminders of the past. His wife's cousin was brutally slain. His former teammate, he introduced to his wife's cousin, was the murderer, and committed suicide in front of his team. Strangely, his teammates lined up support for their departed player, but not much mention to the woman he killed. The GM was a jerk, and the attitude within the locker room was toxic. His wife (a lifelong friend) was intent on returning to Texas, and wanted Jamaal Charles to retire. 

 

Time heals, and so does winning. The Chiefs pulled the plug on the disgraceful, Scott Pioli regime. Clark Hunt decided to step in, and change the culture back to where it was in the past. He hired head coach Andy Reid, and had Reid help find the right GM. The emphasis was placed on changing the culture. After three years, Reid turned the team around. They are winning, and most of the bad eggs are gone. There might be one or two remaining on the team. However, most of the Chiefs' football team are dedicated to the game, close to each other, and to the fans. Playing for the Chiefs is fun again. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

If we have a healthy Ware and West, then I would say I would prefer Smith over Charles.  Jamaal's getting up there in age, as well as coming back from 2nd ACL and its apparent that Reid doesn't know what to do with him.  For the last 2.5 years whenever the chiefs lose, the first thing you can do is look at Charles' carries...and that number is almost guaranteed to be between 8-12.  We learned in his absence that he is not the center of our team, and I fear he will become the focus again, causing problems as well as stunting growth of our players.

 

The Ware/West combination gives us two young workhorse backs that can do some major damage while Charles just isn't going to get those 2nd half carries to run down the clock in the 2nd half.  Also, I would have to think he would be great trade bait for a team that needs a RB.  Here's a breakdown of the rest of his contract:

 

2016:  Base:  $2,750,000  Roster Bonus:  $2,312,500  Workout Bonus:  $250,000

2017:  Base:  $3,750,000  Roster Bonus:  $3,000,000  Workout Bonus:  $250,000

 

If my understanding of the contracts is correct(which it probably isn't), the chiefs would pick up any bonuses if there were a trade.   So basically...trading Charles would save the chiefs 5.3 million in the next two years in cap space while the team traded to would only be responsible for the pick(s) given up and 6.5 million over two years.  That's sounds like quite a bargain if he returns even close to his former self and probably a risk worth taking.

 

All this being said....Sean Smith is probably gone regardless of scenario.  He's gonna be highly sought after and highly paid.  We probably just don't have the cash flow to get him back and retain our other core players.  I look for the chiefs to either draft CB in the 1st round again(please give us Marcus Peters 2.0), or go after an above average CB in free agency that they could afford.  I shutter to think of it personally, but Adam "Pac-Man" Jones is available.  I imagine we could get him dirt cheap on the same kind of "prove it" deal we gave Sean Smith.

 

 

the same Pac Man Jones that help cost the Bengals  a playoff win with that stupid PF penalityat the end of the game??... Get the Fuck oudda here your insane

 

[kccrow 529]

the same Pac Man Jones that help cost the Bengals  a playoff win with that stupid PF penalityat the end of the game??... Get the Fuck oudda here your insane

 

 

Agreed. Not to mention Adam Jones is 32 fuckin years old.

[PhataLerror 370]

The Chiefs got this far this year because they had high-character guys. I don't want to see Adam Jones in Kansas City.

[Bilyous2 884]

The Chiefs got this far this year because they had high-character guys. I don't want to see Adam Jones in Kansas City.

Amen.

[eraser 722]

Sean Smith is a good (not great) corner back. He is unusual in that he is very tall for the position. He will attract attention in free agency. It is not all that certain that he will be gone. I would say though the chances of Smith returning are slim, maybe 20 to 25%. He will be better in this system than in most any other system in the NFL. When he came to KC, he was not regarded to be one of the best. The system we utilize here takes advantage of his size. He is a smart corner. He is not quick, and he is not fast. He has decent speed. He plays in good position. His height makes it more difficult for quarterbacks to get a pass over. 

 

Marcus Peters was targeted a historically high number of times for three reason. One, he was a rookie. Two, his man was most often open. Three, Sean Smith denied pass lines due to his size. Smith did not have to rotate from side to side. He didn't have to run a great distance, or exhibit great athleticism. Smith just had to get in the way of passing lanes. The quarterback threw to the more open receiver, and Peters recovers quickly. Peters understands the game better than most any other rookie corner I have seen. He knows how to bait a quarterback into making a throw. He lays off a bit, and dares the quarterback to attack him. He usually makes the opposing quarterback pay for any errant pass thrown his way. 

 

Sean Smith may not be better with another team, but Marcus Peters may suffer as well. The Chiefs will have a suitable replacement for Smith, and may already have one or two on their team. Gaines should play more nickle, but he is capable of playing corner. Steven Nelson started to have more opportunities later in the season. I think he will be a better option than Fleming, and may be good enough to be the starting RCB opposite Peters.

 

Finally, the Chiefs may decide to add a corner from their draft. There are a number of corners I like. Kendall Fuller may be available with the 28th pick in the draft, and he could be very good. Some have Mackensie Alexander valued higher than Fuller (I am not one of these). The Chiefs could also wait until the second round. William Jackson may last that long, and he is good. Jackson will drop because he injured his knee. Another option, which I find particularly intriguing is Darian Thompson, who played at FS for Boise State. I want to see more of him at the combine to make sure my observations are accurate. I think he can play corner in the NFL. He is 6'3", and weighs 210 lbs. I think he will run a 4.5 to maybe 4.55. His size, and instincts are what set him apart. Teams relegate a corner to FS because they have tight hips, can't back peddle, or they don't flip their hips good enough to quickly change direction. From what I have seen, and it is a small sample, Darian Thompson has the mobility you want in a corner, but in a larger size. In short, you may have the second coming of Sean Smith. He is definitely a ball hawk. 

[Calichief 3,016]

The Chiefs got this far this year because they had high-character guys. I don't want to see Adam Jones in Kansas City.

Exactly

[wilkie 1,518]

Awful thing to contemplate. Jamaal is 28. What a great player he is. BUT the team went to the playoffs without him. First and foremost this is his second ACL. Sean Smith is a shutdown corner. Elvis Grbac or Rich Gannon????

 

Pro football is a business. What would New England do ? You know the answer. But I don't like it.

[Guest Okiechief1]

NE would probably let them both go for different reasons.

 

Smith would be for probably what it would take to retain him as they don't overpay players. They let Revis and Talib leave whom are probably both a bit better than Smith. They have let other good players go cause they didn't want to pay them as well.

 

JC they would probably trade for what they could get. They get rid of players before their time is done even if they still have a year or 2 left. Better to get something rather than hold onto them to long.

[Bilyous2 884]

NE would probably let them both go for different reasons.

 

Smith would be for probably what it would take to retain him as they don't overpay players. They let Revis and Talib leave whom are probably both a bit better than Smith. They have let other good players go cause they didn't want to pay them as well.

 

JC they would probably trade for what they could get. They get rid of players before their time is done even if they still have a year or 2 left. Better to get something rather than hold onto them to long.

NE has had the luxury of doing that because they have had Brady at QB.  They have to pay him a lot, but he helps them be great, even without players that other teams would have to keep.  You don't find a Brady very often.  How long has it taken the Chiefs to find a very good QB since Montana?  NE has been lucky (as well as rich).

[Calichief 3,016]

The true success had everything to do with Alex smith having freedom to use his intellegence and run the offense. It had nothing to so with the loss of Charles and the epiphany of Reid using running backs correctly; It had nothing to do with west and ware and everything to do with Alex smith growing because of trust.

This offense with Charles will be spectacular now.

Charles over smith every day for all time.

[azchief21 5,278]

The true success had everything to do with Alex smith having freedom to use his intellegence and run the offense. It had nothing to so with the loss of Charles and the epiphany of Reid using running backs correctly; It had nothing to do with west and ware and everything to do with Alex smith growing because of trust.

This offense with Charles will be spectacular now.

Charles over smith every day for all time.

The true success was the defense. Alex Smith had an extremely decent year though. JC over Sean Smith.

[DieHard 2,061]

Am I thinking correctly that Charles will be out for the start of the season? Hard to cut or trade an injured player. I think we see where we are at when he is healthy. For all we know, West could be on IR when JC is ready to play again.

[KCSLC2008 606]

I think Calichief was talking about offensive improvement, not the entire team improvement. The offense can help when it scores and when it rests the defense. It allows them to be fresh and aggressive. We need both, as we didn't score many points against the Patriots - negative. We did control the clock to the tune of 37-23 which could mean offense staying on the field or quick scores by the Patriots or both - mixed positives and negatives.

[Calichief 3,016]

I think Calichief was talking about offensive improvement, not the entire team improvement. The offense can help when it scores and when it rests the defense. It allows them to be fresh and aggressive. We need both, as we didn't score many points against the Patriots - negative. We did control the clock to the tune of 37-23 which could mean offense staying on the field or quick scores by the Patriots or both - mixed positives and negatives.

Yes. Defense was great. Things changed when Alex grabbed control. Charles would have benefitted too. Already best ypc all time. We would have benefitted against pats with Charles in the mix. I saw Sean smith get smoked for a TD. Berry lost his shoes too.

Charles has quick strike big play ability.

[PhataLerror 370]

We did control the clock to the tune of 37-23 which could mean offense staying on the field or quick scores by the Patriots or both - mixed positives and negatives.

The Chiefs' defense allowed the Patriots to score on the opening drive. You can't blame an offense for that.

The Chiefs' out-possessed the Patriots by a huge margin and didn't give up short fields. You can't blame an offense for that.

 

The defense was awful.

[Calichief 3,016]

The Chiefs' defense allowed the Patriots to score on the opening drive. You can't blame an offense for that.

The Chiefs' out-possessed the Patriots by a huge margin and didn't give up short fields. You can't blame an offense for that.

 

The defense was awful.

Offense could have helped. Awful is extreme.

[SEMO 6,811]

The Chiefs' defense allowed the Patriots to score on the opening drive. You can't blame an offense for that.

The Chiefs' out-possessed the Patriots by a huge margin and didn't give up short fields. You can't blame an offense for that.

 

The defense was awful.

The time of possesion win kept Brady off the field. And, we still lost.

 

The defense had a bad game. But, if your hero finished drives, we win the game.

[PhataLerror 370]

The time of possesion win kept Brady off the field. And, we still lost.

 

The defense had a bad game. But, if your hero finished drives, we win the game.

You mean, 'if runningbacks don't fumble the ball on a rare carry'?

 

"Finished drives" with what? This wasn't such a problem with Jeremy Maclin field-worthy. All I saw play after play was a bunch of receivers not getting separation, and Smith throwing completions despite that. It was 2014 all over again. The biggest surprise of the game was the offensive line, as they had several plays where Smith had a substantial amount of time, which should have made it that much more obvious that the receiver corps was overmatched. I thought that the network did a good job of pointing that out, and am surprised that this comes up in this fashion.

 

I'd posit that Smith was making more technically difficult throws than Brady. The bottom line is that Brady had much more favorable circumstances to play in, including having an NFL-ready receiver corps. It's a team game, and the Chiefs' defense managed to do more to lose the game than Brady had to do to win it.

 

Whatever. Smith plays hero ball, and it still isn't good enough for people.

[SEMO 6,811]

Rag on the D all you want. We all are. But, without them we don't win 11 straight. The offense, and Alex Smith, were never good enough to carry us through that streak. That was the Defense.

 

I like Smith. He plays hard. Has a lot of heart. But, for him to win, everything around him has to be perfect. It's like you pointed out about receivers not getting seperation. He has to see that. He can't throw a receiver open. He is what he is. Get over it.

[DieHard 2,061]

Against a team like NE, you can't wait until the 4th quarter to start scoring TDs. Both sides of the ball struggled. It was too many injuries period. No blame should go on anyone. They did the best they could with what they had.