SEMO 6,811 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/2/18/11047154/jared-allen-announces-retirement-in-a-very-jared-allen-way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 at least he was able to play in a SB so I'm sure he's happier than he would be other wise. Good luck to him. He does good work with our Vet's so I wish him well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Sure wish he could have played it healthy. Yep big supporter of wounded vets. Fantastic guy. I wish him well. Glad we got to see him play in red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowhead 1,070 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 DH, remember when we were up at training camp and the old dline coach Karmelowicz was putting the dline thru drills and he said to Allen if you get 10 sacks a season you will make millions? In that rough voice. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Oh yeah. Man I miss River Falls. It's just not the same. That was a pilgrimage. St. Joe is just a long drive to sit in the sweltering heat. Remember Rhonda M. sweating through those spandex pants. Yikes. Hate to see that in the St. Joe heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowhead 1,070 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Oh yeah. Man I miss River Falls. It's just not the same. That was a pilgrimage. St. Joe is just a long drive to sit in the sweltering heat. Remember Rhonda M. sweating through those spandex pants. Yikes. Hate to see that in the St. Joe heat. With flies covering her ass, along for the ride. Brodie Croyle.s wife, holy smokes. Yeah, the move to St Joe killed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Brodie Croyle's wife!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yowsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The Jared Allen trade is the trade that permanently broke me from having any attachment to Chiefs players. I was never so pissed about a trade as I was that day. Now, I could give a fuck less who the Chiefs cut or trade and more often advocate for trades/cuts of aging players with big contracts. Big reason I'm not attached to Jamaal Charles or Dustin Colquitt and their huge contracts at positions that you shouldn't spend huge money on, but that's a topic for another thread perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Brodie Croyle's wife!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yowsa Agreed. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 The Jared Allen trade is the trade that permanently broke me from having any attachment to Chiefs players. I was never so pissed about a trade as I was that day. Now, I could give a fuck less who the Chiefs cut or trade and more often advocate for trades/cuts of aging players with big contracts. Big reason I'm not attached to Jamaal Charles or Dustin Colquitt and their huge contracts at positions that you shouldn't spend huge money on, but that's a topic for another thread perhaps. Who did we get with those 3 picks? I think that safety and lineman that didn't turn out. But was Charles one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Who did we get with those 3 picks? I think that safety and lineman that didn't turn out. But was Charles one of them. Like I explained to some other people, Charles doesn't really count. The Chiefs had pick #66 that they traded to Detroit in a move up to get Branden Albert. They could have just as well taken Charles at #66 with their original pick, instead of at 73 with the pick from Minnesota. The Chiefs essentially traded Jared Allen for Branden Albert. That draft had its good points and its bad, but overall it was a colossal failure in building a franchise and is a big reason Carl should have been fired. For starters, KC didn't have a QB. They not only passed on Joe Flacco at #5, but again when the moved from 17 to 15 (and I wouldn't have traded Allen to begin with so that's moot). I would have taken Flacco at 5. People here were screaming for a QB. That was the year KC trotted out Tyler Thigpen and Quinn Gray. Yeah, great job. The Chiefs needed a LT and could have easily spent a future 2nd round pick to move up into the upper 20's from 35 to get Duane Brown who looked to be a much better option than Albert, but I find it doubtful Carl could have been that smart. Standing pat for Flowers was a very solid move given the lack of a CB opposite Surtain. He Chiefs could have stood pat at #66 and selected Pat Sims, a known commodity as a brutal run stuffer, since they didn't need another RB at the time and filled their void at DT. They should have addressed OT in round 4 with Kansas' Anthony Collins, someone people here loved and was much talked about. Even though he ended up not amounting to much, and the Chiefs would have been left looking for a LT in the not so distant future, not many would have bitched about a 4th round pick not working out. He wasn't really worse than Damien McIntosh anyhow. Carr in round 5 was a good pick that made sense. In round 6, people were talking a bunch about Notre Dame Center John Sullivan and the fact that Rudy Niswanger might not be able to carry the team forward at that position. I recall eraser, I think it was him anyhow, clamoring for Steve Johnson in round 7. People can talk about that trade all they want, but it made zero sense and this team was not the better for it. If the Chiefs had this draft: 1-5. QB Joe Flacco - Delaware - fixes the atrocious QB situation that year. 2-35. CB Brandon Flowers - Virginia Tech - puts a starting CB opposite Surtain. 3-66. DT Pat Sims - Auburn - gives KC a run stuffing DT to pair with Ron Edwards, Jared Allen, and Tamba Hali, plus they had Jason Babin for depth. 4-105. OT Anthony Collins - Kansas - would have been a stab at filling LT over McIntosh. 5-140. CB Brandon Carr - Grand Valley State - gives KC a NB 6-170. OC John Sullivan - Notre Dame - gives KC competition against Rudy Niswanger, who wasn't good, for the starting Center spot. 7-210. WR Steve Johnson - Kentucky - Chiefs need receivers, would have been a shot at a speedy #2 opposite Dwayne Bowe 7-239. OT Geoff Schwartz - Oregon - Stab at improving the RT position that probably would have worked out okay. + DE Jared Allen would you find it better than this one? 1-5. DT Glenn Dorsey - LSU 1-15. OG Branden Albert - Virginia 2-35. CB Brandon Flowers - Virginia Tech 3-73. RB Jamaal Charles - Texas 3-76. TE Brad Cottom - Tennessee 3-82. S DeJuan Morgan - NC State 4-105. WR Will Franklin - Missouri 5-140. CB Brandon Carr - Grand Valley State 6-170. OT Barry Richardson - Clemson 6-182. WR Kevin Robinson - Utah State 7-210. LB Brian Johnston - Gardner Webb 7-239. TE Michael Merritt - Central Florida The Chiefs would have been primed for a good tackle class in 2009, where they would have likely been in position to select Eugene Monroe, and wouldn't have had the Matt Cassel experiment. It's all retrospect at this point, but it starts and ends with two basic premises: KC should have never traded a dominant pass rusher entering his prime with the hope of landing a left tackle and creating a void on defense. The Chiefs never should have passed on the opportunity for a franchise QB in a year they desperately needed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 To further emphasize your point, you could have put Jamaal Charles at 66 like you said was possible. (Or I suppose one could even trade up for Brandon Albert as well, but don't know why.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Nice breakdown Crow. Allen was a huge loss. I think the DUI might have played into the decision, but It turned out to be a anomaly rather than a sign of things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The Jared Allen trade is the trade that permanently broke me from having any attachment to Chiefs players. I was never so pissed about a trade as I was that day. Now, I could give a fuck less who the Chiefs cut or trade and more often advocate for trades/cuts of aging players with big contracts. Big reason I'm not attached to Jamaal Charles or Dustin Colquitt and their huge contracts at positions that you shouldn't spend huge money on, but that's a topic for another thread perhaps. Doesn't make much sense to me. I was pissed because they traded Allen, also. But that trade seems to reinforce the foolishness of not keeping your best players. I felt that way then and still feel that way, but it seems out of keeping with what you are saying about Charles and Colquitt. We know they are special, so why let them go? Isn't that what we did with Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Doesn't make much sense to me. I was pissed because they traded Allen, also. But that trade seems to reinforce the foolishness of not keeping your best players. I felt that way then and still feel that way, but it seems out of keeping with what you are saying about Charles and Colquitt. We know they are special, so why let them go? Isn't that what we did with Allen? Punters are not a commodity that affects games in much of a meaningful way. If they can kick a ball 45 yards with 4.5 seconds of hang-time, they are good enough. The problem with Colquitt is money. It's absolutely stupid, from a business perspective, to pay someone so much to do something that is relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of the game, and for which you can find many adequate replacements for significantly less. I've proven this with data, but would be willing to extend that data out, ad-nauseum, should I have to do so and within my time restraints. As for Charles, he's a RB that is past his prime and is playing for a big-dollar contract. Those are the types that good organizations usually try to ditch to bad organizations because they have enough value to net some draft picks before the wheels come completely off. It's almost a "no-brainer" when you combine the facts that RB is no longer the premium position it once was, there are adequate replacements already in-house, and the draft is loaded with re-tooling talent at the position. Had Jared Allen played a non-premium position or had he been towards the close of his career and playing for big-time money, then I'd have no problem with the deal. The fact that the guy was one of the premier pass-rushers in the NFL, just coming into his prime years, and looking for his first pay-day makes me cringe. Carl Peterson was a cheap bastard in all of the wrong ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calichief Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 No proof Charles is past his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 No proof Charles is past his prime. Cali... After 2 ACLs, he's got about 2 years left before he loses that burst, then he's done. RBs traditionally hit the wall around 30-31. ESPN did a study a while back. RBs typically peak at age 27. They estimate that production dips by 15% at 28, 25% at 29, and 40% at 30. Miles on the tires is a myth, and I lose track of articles about that which prove it from a sports physiology standpoint. He's still going to be hitting 30 years old and the production is going to continue to dip and he's going to continue to slow down. If he has any value left whatsoever, its over these next 2 seasons. If I'm running the Chiefs, I'm putting feelers out there for trades. You'd probably get a 5th round pick. Excellent area to pick up a back like TCU's Aaron Green, who is very similar to Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Punters are not a commodity that affects games in much of a meaningful way. If they can kick a ball 45 yards with 4.5 seconds of hang-time, they are good enough. The problem with Colquitt is money. It's absolutely stupid, from a business perspective, to pay someone so much to do something that is relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of the game, and for which you can find many adequate replacements for significantly less. I've proven this with data, but would be willing to extend that data out, ad-nauseum, should I have to do so and within my time restraints. As for Charles, he's a RB that is past his prime and is playing for a big-dollar contract. Those are the types that good organizations usually try to ditch to bad organizations because they have enough value to net some draft picks before the wheels come completely off. It's almost a "no-brainer" when you combine the facts that RB is no longer the premium position it once was, there are adequate replacements already in-house, and the draft is loaded with re-tooling talent at the position. Had Jared Allen played a non-premium position or had he been towards the close of his career and playing for big-time money, then I'd have no problem with the deal. The fact that the guy was one of the premier pass-rushers in the NFL, just coming into his prime years, and looking for his first pay-day makes me cringe. Carl Peterson was a cheap bastard in all of the wrong ways. I disagree about Charles and Colquitt, but your argument makes sense if those two are near the end, which might be, but I don't think so. I also think your philosophy about management is excellent for a team that is building towards contention or rebuilding, but I don't think its best for a team that is close to a championship team with a lot of young guys who can get them there. 11 straight wins and a playoff victory is not a rebuilding position. It is NOT time to take a step backward with older players who are good. It is the one time to keep those guys and develop young players and keep developing them. Use the older guys for now for their ability and their example and mentoring and use the draft to fill in some areas of concern two or three years down the road. Dorsey is capable of getting what we need with the choices we have. We don't need a bazillion draft choices and then hope that some of them are OK, while losing some guys who brought us to the dance last season. There is a time for dumping and drafting, but this is not the time. Remember, I am not saying you are wrong, and I am no expert, just a long-time observer of good and bad Chiefs managers. Now is NOT the right time to let good older players go in order to accumulate draft choices. Its just like the Royals. Four years ago was a great time to get rid of Greinke to acquire more good players to develop. But now is the time to pay the piper to keep Alex Gordon. Its the same thing. A championship is the near term goal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I disagree about Charles and Colquitt, but your argument makes sense if those two are near the end, which might be, but I don't think so. I also think your philosophy about management is excellent for a team that is building towards contention or rebuilding, but I don't think its best for a team that is close to a championship team with a lot of young guys who can get them there. 11 straight wins and a playoff victory is not a rebuilding position. It is time to not take a step backward with older players who are good. It is the one time to keep those guys and develop young players and keep developing them. Use the older guys for now for their ability and their example and mentoring and use the draft to fill in some areas of concern two or three years down the road. Dorsey is capable of getting what we need with the choices we have. We don't need a bazillion draft choices and then hope that some of them are OK, while losing some guys who brought us to the dance last season. There is a time for dumping and drafting, but this is not the time. Remember, I am not saying you are wrong, and I am no expert, just a long-time observer of good and bad Chiefs managers. Now is NOT the right time to let good older players go in order to accumulate draft choices. Its just like the Royals. Four years ago was a great time to get rid of Greinke to acquire more good players to develop. But now is the time to pay the piper to keep Alex Gordon. Its the same thing. A championship is the near term goal now. Good post Bil, just one question to gather your thoughts. The Patriots have long used the exact philosophy I'm talking about, getting rid of old talent while they still have enough value to get something in return, freeing up cap space to sign their younger, ascending players and continuing to fill in via the draft and with low-key free agent signings. I'm sure there are countless examples, but that one sticks out. Why is it that KC should not subscribe to that same philosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkie 1,518 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Allen wanted to be traded if you remember. Said in the news if we used the franchise tag on him he would sit out the season. We traded Allen as an accommodation to him and his manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Good post Bil, just one question to gather your thoughts. The Patriots have long used the exact philosophy I'm talking about, getting rid of old talent while they still have enough value to get something in return, freeing up cap space to sign their younger, ascending players and continuing to fill in via the draft and with low-key free agent signings. I'm sure there are countless examples, but that one sticks out. Why is it that KC should not subscribe to that same philosophy? Good point but how would the Patriot philosophy have worked without Brady since 2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Allen wanted to be traded if you remember. Said in the news if we used the franchise tag on him he would sit out the season. We traded Allen as an accommodation to him and his manager. Only because King Carl said that he would never give him a long term deal. I would've demanded a trade, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Good post Bil, just one question to gather your thoughts. The Patriots have long used the exact philosophy I'm talking about, getting rid of old talent while they still have enough value to get something in return, freeing up cap space to sign their younger, ascending players and continuing to fill in via the draft and with low-key free agent signings. I'm sure there are countless examples, but that one sticks out. Why is it that KC should not subscribe to that same philosophy? For one, we don't have Brady. I love AS, and he can get us a championship, but he is not the kind of guy who can do it without all the best players around him. Another reason is because we don't have the richest owner in football or the longest winning tradition that will attract the best free agents in case dumping an older but still good player doesn't work out. This team really needs the most experienced players to get to the big show. They need those guys to project that "been there, done that" attitude of focused confidence to the younger players. We can't do it with just AS and and a bunch of good but developing players. That's what I think, anyway, for whatever its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 For one, we don't have Brady. I love AS, and he can get us a championship, but he is not the kind of guy who can do it without all the best players around him. Another reason is because we don't have the richest owner in football or the longest winning tradition that will attract the best free agents in case dumping an older but still good player doesn't work out. This team really needs the most experienced players to get to the big show. They need those guys to project that "been there, done that" attitude of focused confidence to the younger players. We can't do it with just AS and and a bunch of good but developing players. That's what I think, anyway, for whatever its worth. I don't think he needs "all the best players" around him. He needs his running back not to fumble in a comeback attempt. He needs his number one receiver not to get injured. He needs Houston to get healthy. Now, can some quarterbacks do more with less? Compared to Smith yes, no one said he was elite, but Smith does get more for what he has than several quarterbacks. He plays to his strengths and so does the team. We just need to not fumble and stay healthy. By the way, no objection to what you posted. I don't think your opinion or post was exaggerated or unreasonable, just offering my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I don't think he needs "all the best players" around him. He needs his running back not to fumble in a comeback attempt. He needs his number one receiver not to get injured. He needs Houston to get healthy. Now, can some quarterbacks do more with less? Compared to Smith yes, no one said he was elite, but Smith does get more for what he has than several quarterbacks. He plays to his strengths and so does the team. We just need to not fumble and stay healthy. By the way, no objection to what you posted. I don't think your opinion or post was exaggerated or unreasonable, just offering my opinion. Your opinion is valued. With regard to the hypotheticals in the first paragraph, though, all I can say is the old expression, "If the dog hadn't stopped to piss, he'd have caught the rabbit." Houston and Maclin couldn't get healthy for one reason. They didn't have the extra week that NE had. We weren't good enough to close the deal on Denver. Just like that dog that stopped to piss. We have to win the division. History tells us exactly that, no matter what team it is. Any team with real designs on the championship has to have that extra week to heal its exhausted and limping players after 16 brutal weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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