Eric Berry - Argue his Value

[kccrow 529]

Having an argument on another forum. Curious about your thoughts about his value here. I'll state my thoughts as simply as possible.

 

He isn't worth 10 million+ per season. I don't think you need to pay that kind of money to get 60-70 tackles and 2-3 Ints.

Berry is very fundamentally sound, an excellent tackler. He is not a play-maker/game changer in my view.

If I were GM my personal offer would be a max of 8 million per, with a starting point of 7. If that was a no-go, I'd tag and trade to the highest bidder before the draft.

I concede the NFL as a business and expect him to be compensated in the realm of Thomas, that doesn't mean I believe the Chiefs should be the team to do so.

All-Pro and Pro-Bowl do not matter to me, they are a joke and a popularity contest.

Dollars for statistics are a good reference point, in my opinion, since I am a math (undergrad) and accounting (masters) guy.

There were several safeties this year that were as good as Eric Berry. I look at Reshad Jones, Marcus Gilchrist, Malcolm Jenkins, Mike Mitchell, Reggie Nelson, Walter Thurmond, Charles Woodson, Mike Adams, Damarious Randall, and so forth and those are some good football players putting up the same type of contribution as Eric Berry. Let's take Randall out because he was a rookie. You look at the rest of those guys and Jones makes 7 per, Gilchrist makes 5.5 per, Jenkins at 5.2 per, Mitchell at 5.0 per, Nelson at 4.5 per, and so on.

You start to think, do you need to invest Devin McCourty, Earl Thomas, or Jairus Byrd money to get that level of production?

You look at Jones and Nelson, those might have been your best two safeties in the NFL in 2015.

I don't particularly appreciate the "fan factor," or I might say the emotional attachment fans have to players. That's irrelevant.

His overcoming cancer to play again is irrelevant to me and should not be factored into a business decision.

You've had good safeties here as 3rd and 4th guys that haven't let this team miss a beat defensively when Berry was out.

 

That's most of it. Hash it out.

[eraser 722]

Eric Berry is worth more to the Chiefs than others would be for his level of talent. There is a intangible ingredient that has to be considered. The Chiefs are more valuable to Eric Berry than other teams for many of the same reasons. Surely things can be worked out. I am not here to set an absolute number. Yes, you may be able find others, but they are not Eric.

 

When the Chiefs drafted Eric Berry, I was not in favor. I proposed trading up for Suh, or McCoy. I thought Haden and Okung may have been a better fit. I even suggested trading down for Earl Thomas, and obtaining another pick. I may not have been wrong about the other selections, but I was wrong about Berry. I thought he was overrated. I did not see the value of taking a SS with the fifth pick in the draft. I did not see his value. How could I? His character and inner greatness was not openly observable. You could not measure them by a yard stick. You could time them with a clock. You could not test them with a weight.

 

I hope the Chiefs and Eric Berry get this thing done. It would be a travesty to see him go to any other team.

[PhataLerror 370]

If I were GM my personal offer [to Eric Berry] would be a max of 8 million per, with a starting point of 7. If that was a no-go, I'd tag and trade to the highest bidder before the draft.

That is about what I've maintained all along. He's a fan favorite and a team leader, but the team has a number of those already, as well as those waiting in the wings to assume that role as aging leaders finally leave the roster. His actual play is what I would describe as great, but not excellent, and definitely not elite. He's not a player I would consider to be strong in pass coverage, and that's a very significant responsibility of his position. The safety is in some ways the quarterback of the defense: They can make some of the most amazing plays, but they can also commit errors that condemn an entire unit to failure regardless of how well everyone else played their role. Berry has continues to have both of those moments.

 

$8 million per year is more than I'm ever inclined to see the safety position's players paid (because unlike quarterbacks, the defense doesn't run through them), but Berry's situation and value to the Chiefs is very hard to quantify because there are intangibles involved that in their total might be unprecedented. If he gets a contract that ultimately lasts six years and ultimately costs the Chiefs an average of $8 million per year, the Chiefs might be getting a steal. The problem is that the Chiefs really can't afford more than that, regardless of how much the salary cap is expected to continue to grow.

[eraser 722]

Eric Berry is worth more to the Chiefs than others would be for his level of talent. There is a intangible ingredient that has to be considered. The Chiefs are more valuable to Eric Berry than other teams for many of the same reasons. Surely things can be worked out. I am not here to set an absolute number. Yes, you may be able find others, but they are not Eric.

 

When the Chiefs drafted Eric Berry, I was not in favor. I proposed trading up for Suh, or McCoy. I thought Haden and Okung may have been a better fit. I even suggested trading down for Earl Thomas, and obtaining another pick. I may not have been wrong about the other selections, but I was wrong about Berry. I thought he was overrated. I did not see the value of taking a SS with the fifth pick in the draft. I did not see his value. How could I? His character and inner greatness was not openly observable. You could not measure them by a yard stick. You could time them with a clock. You could not test them with a weight.

 

I hope the Chiefs and Eric Berry get this thing done. It would be a travesty to see him go to any other team.

[SEMO 6,811]

I would rather throw too much money at Sean Smith, rather than Eric Berry.  While I am a big fan of Berry, he is not the player that Smith is.

[PhataLerror 370]

I would rather throw too much money at Sean Smith, rather than Eric Berry.  While I am a big fan of Berry, he is not the player that Smith is.

More so than Berry, Smith's value was propped up by the performances of the defensive front seven. If Smith gets paid, receivers like Edelman that he cannot cover will get more open than ever because the cheaper nickleback along with the cheaper front seven will likely not complement one another.

 

You just can't pay even great defensive players $14 million a year and succeed. They have to be all-time bests at their position to justify that sort of spending.

[oldtimer 8,686]

Berry is no game changer. I can not think of one meaningful game where he either turned the tide or took over and single handedly won for the Chiefs...I have a hard time with even $8 mil a year. Problem with tagging then trading is no one will want his cap hit with the tag. I think the chiefs are better with Berry than without but there is only one way to find out how much  he really makes a difference.

[Guest Guest]

I agree with

Solid not spectacular. Troy palamalu had the factor you speak of.

[FANATIC 852]

I would rather throw too much money at Sean Smith, rather than Eric Berry.  While I am a big fan of Berry, he is not the player that Smith is.

So Smith can get his big pay day and get suspended again? Not trust worthy. I take CHARACTER and BERRY defines CHARACTER.

[SEMO 6,811]

Risk/reward. It was a different team after game 3.

[FANATIC 852]

Risk/reward. It was a different team after game 3.

Perhaps it was also Berry & Poe getting up to speed? Perhaps the competition became less competitive as the season went on? The way I see it.... Smith cost us the Division. With the Division Champion positioning KC could have been in that Superbowl and Defeated Cam.

[SEMO 6,811]

So you are saying that if we had Smith those first three games, we would have won the division. Thanks for making my point.

[FANATIC 852]

So you are saying that if we had Smith those first three games, we would have won the division. Thanks for making my point.

My point is Smith is selfish and not reliable. See Dwayne Bowe. Berry defines Character and Team. Smith defines stupid. Overpay for a drug user? We agree to disagree. 

[ATLchief 3,126]

I've thought he was overrated from day one.

[PhataLerror 370]

This is a good place to mention: If Berry hadn't been getting paid what he has been for being one of the last players drafted early and under a rookie contract tied to the old Collective Bargaining Agreement, he might have been re-signed a long time ago to a contract worth around $7 million a year. He had an inflated salary due to an antiquated compensation system, and a market rate contract that properly factored for his actual ability would seem to be a pay cut.

 

I'm really not sure how the Chiefs and Berry are going to work this out.

[Guest Okiechief1]

Perhaps it was also Berry & Poe getting up to speed? Perhaps the competition became less competitive as the season went on? The way I see it.... Smith cost us the Division. With the Division Champion positioning KC could have been in that Superbowl and Defeated Cam.

I don't think much changes in those first 3 games with SS. We beat with and without SS. SS doesn't change the fact that offense turned the ball over 5 times. The PCT that we win that game are probably less than 5. How much he would have helped slowing down Denver on their last drive who knows cause he was in the field against the Bears when Cutler drove them down to win that game. GB the team was just flat. Also his first game back Dalton went for over 300.

[robgar 1,046]

Locker room, and Team leader, True character guy, both on the field and off.. Everything you want people to think about when they think about your franchise.

 

 

Very Solid player, Great speed, hardworker.

 

Wont let himself or others quit, Probably a major reason KC was able to turn it around this year.

 

 

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Whats his on field play worth.. 

 

Money wise... thats a hard thing to ask. his salary is bloated because he was taken 5th overall. Which is a very high pick for a Safety.

However I think KC and Berry need each other to an extent.. I am starting discussions at 7 mill a year.. for 7 years... 40% of it in guaranteed money..

another 20% in roster bonus's, and tacking on some pretty decent performance bonus's..

 

The end numbers may be double that.. but I am willing to bet that is pretty close to what he really ends up with.. i.e. they may backload the contract where he is making

"20 million a year for the 6th and 7th year".. knowing that will mean a new deal in 5 years.

 

RG

[Chiefmanzada 466]

Berry > Smith any day. 

 

One cannot be replaced. Think about it.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

The value of Berry to this team is what the team feels his value is not what the fans feel his value is.

[KCSLC2008 606]

I agree with everyone.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

He's the leader of our secondary. I believe the Chiefs should draft another CB

[DieHard 2,061]

Berry is not at a critical position, we have alternatives there that are much better in coverage. Great guy, but not worth even 8 mill in our position. If you can get Smith at 12 per year it is much more return on investment. We won't have much trouble replacing Berry with only a minor drop off. There is no way we can replace Smith. No one on the roster or in FA that will do it.

 

Berry > Smith as a person

Smith > Berry as one of your 11

[oldtimer 8,686]

The value of Berry to this team is what the team feels his value is not what the fans feel his value is.

 

 

Look up in the air!..Its a Bird... Its a Plane.... its a Frog...no its Capt Obvious..jeeze

[Chiefmanzada 466]

I disagree with DH. Berry is not the best coverage safety, but he is one of the best against the run and tackling players in the open field. He has incredible closing speed and awareness, something required at the safety position.

 

Sean Smith is obviously of great importance in our secondary I won't argue that. If anyone I hope they put the tag on him and sign Berry to a full deal, but corners come and go in the NFL. Berry has many years to be great. Carr was replaced, Flowers was replaced, Smith can be replaced by the right guy, if he exists, and we need him to exist within a year because this team has the SB focused in.

 

I guess what I feel is:

Short-term, I'll take Smith over Berry.

Long-term, I'll take the opposite

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Look up in the air!..Its a Bird... Its a Plane.... its a Frog...no its Capt Obvious..jeeze

You're right it is obvious that none of us have a clue within the organization how important Berry really is to this team. Technically none of the players are game changers without others playing beside them. Tell me one player on this team the Chiefs couldn't play and win without.