DieHard 2,061 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 From Bleacher talking about Wilfork. Nose tackle is the most thankless job in football. Those big boys up front must battle two or three blockers, be held on every play and receive little to none of the glory if the defense succeeds. Yet a great nose tackle can change the complexion of a game without recording a tackle. I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Okiechief1 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Why is a guy that played 4 seasons in the NfL 20 plus years ago and has never worked on the business side of things considered an expert. When you start listening to public opinion and guys that have never even sniffed that side of things tell you how to do your job that is usually the quickest way out of a job. If Berry hadn't beaten cancer and been the story he has been, would the so called experts even be commenting on this and would they still see it the same if they did. I feel for the guy for the cancer diagnosis, and because it could come back at any time. Not gonna feel for him though because no deal got done. Guy has been the highest paid safety since he entered the league and will be the 2nd highest paid this year. I don't blame either side for this, but the media will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 You can't replace what Poe does up front on this defense. He penetrates the pocket and gets sacks as a NT while also being a Hampton/Wilfork type of clog against the run. You don't find those guys but once a decade at best. Poe sets the tone for that entire front 7. Eric Berry is media sensationalized for being above average, but he's far and away not "great" like he's made to look. Berry does everything pretty well, and that's an asset, but its not an asset I'd spend 10 million per on. While I do understand that the price for good safeties is going up, you can still get very good safety play for half that price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMO 6,811 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Murray might end up being a very good safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You can't replace what Poe does up front on this defense. He penetrates the pocket and gets sacks as a NT while also being a Hampton/Wilfork type of clog against the run. You don't find those guys but once a decade at best. Poe sets the tone for that entire front 7. Eric Berry is media sensationalized for being above average, but he's far and away not "great" like he's made to look. Berry does everything pretty well, and that's an asset, but its not an asset I'd spend 10 million per on. While I do understand that the price for good safeties is going up, you can still get very good safety play for half that price tag. Can't discount how many snaps Poe plays. You would have to get two guys and hope they are both good, to replace Poe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You can't replace what Poe does up front on this defense. He penetrates the pocket and gets sacks as a NT while also being a Hampton/Wilfork type of clog against the run. You don't find those guys but once a decade at best. Poe sets the tone for that entire front 7. Eric Berry is media sensationalized for being above average, but he's far and away not "great" like he's made to look. Berry does everything pretty well, and that's an asset, but its not an asset I'd spend 10 million per on. While I do understand that the price for good safeties is going up, you can still get very good safety play for half that price tag. This. Entirely agree. It's not that hard to find a 2 gapper, run plugging NT. But good luck finding one who also causes havoc in the backfield like Poe on a consistent basis. We also have to factor in that Dorsey has a proven track record of finding safeties who perform very well for cheap. He's done it every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You can't replace what Poe does up front on this defense. He penetrates the pocket and gets sacks as a NT while also being a Hampton/Wilfork type of clog against the run. You don't find those guys but once a decade at best. Poe sets the tone for that entire front 7. Eric Berry is media sensationalized for being above average, but he's far and away not "great" like he's made to look. Berry does everything pretty well, and that's an asset, but its not an asset I'd spend 10 million per on. While I do understand that the price for good safeties is going up, you can still get very good safety play for half that price tag. It's not about Poe vs. Berry. We can keep both. The cap will go up $11 million next year. I agree with what you say about NTs and Poe. $10 million isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. The cap is predicted to be $166 million next year. If that were the case Berry would take up 6% of the cap. He is well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccrow 529 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's not about Poe vs. Berry. We can keep both. The cap will go up $11 million next year. I agree with what you say about NTs and Poe. $10 million isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. The cap is predicted to be $166 million next year. If that were the case Berry would take up 6% of the cap. He is well worth it. You change the dynamic of the quality of depth or age of depth. For every player you have at 10 million, you need 2 at league minimum. Alex Smith and Justin Houston already push the Chiefs to have 8 other players at league minimum to push the average salary down. You can only have so many guys at those levels before you erode the overall talent level, guys making 5-6 million per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 From Bleacher talking about Wilfork. Nose tackle is the most thankless job in football. Those big boys up front must battle two or three blockers, be held on every play and receive little to none of the glory if the defense succeeds. Yet a great nose tackle can change the complexion of a game without recording a tackle. I agree completely. As do I. Safeties may have the responsibility to clean up the rest of the defense's mistakes, but on most plays they're not as directly involved in the result as other defensive position players. The nose tackle has to do his job every play, and his effort is one of the things that drives the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's not about Poe vs. Berry. We can keep both. The cap will go up $11 million next year. I agree with what you say about NTs and Poe. $10 million isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. The cap is predicted to be $166 million next year. If that were the case Berry would take up 6% of the cap. He is well worth it. You're right: It's about Poe vs. Berry vs. Fisher vs. Gaines vs. Ford vs. Key 2017 Free Agent. Percentages are one of the best ways to evaluate player value vs. the cap. Almost no safety is capable of being worth 6% of the cap. Look around the league: Few starters from other positions get paid as little per year with such light guarantees as safeties get. It's not a position that is considered to be essential to the function of a team. The safeties that do make an impact are cleaning up the messes of inferior players in front of them, and the solution for that problem is to replace the linemen, linebackers, or cornerbacks in question. I get what you're saying, but I choose to align my philosophy with that of the league's General Managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 You change the dynamic of the quality of depth or age of depth. For every player you have at 10 million, you need 2 at league minimum. Alex Smith and Justin Houston already push the Chiefs to have 8 other players at league minimum to push the average salary down. You can only have so many guys at those levels before you erode the overall talent level, guys making 5-6 million per. When it comes to the safety position, you look for players that make just above league minimum, but are contributing 90% of the production and impact of an elite safety. The difference between a competent safety and an elite safety is far less than the difference between a competent safety's salary and that of an elite safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 You change the dynamic of the quality of depth or age of depth. For every player you have at 10 million, you need 2 at league minimum. Alex Smith and Justin Houston already push the Chiefs to have 8 other players at league minimum to push the average salary down. You can only have so many guys at those levels before you erode the overall talent level, guys making 5-6 million per. Interesting point and I never looked at it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 There is some media speculation Berry won't show up to camp anytime soon. I don't believe it. He is a captain and I think he will act like one. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I don't know. I think he will be fine if he skips it, but it will hurt the other guys. I think he shows at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLchief 3,126 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Guess this tells the story...to some degree. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000676889/article/eric-berry-wont-report-for-start-of-chiefs-camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Well, that is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 disappointing? a little but not unforeseen. It actually gives the 2nd stringers more first string playing time. Berry will be in there its the same song & dance most players play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Did you see Alex Smith interview yesterday? I really think Dorsey f***ed up big time on this one. We won't be the same without him and this will not go over well in the locker room. I am telling you guys, if we don't re-sign him in February, you can forget a Super Bowl anytime soon. He is one of the most important pieces to this team. You can't easily replace leadership like that. http://www.chiefs.com/media-center/videos/Alex-Smith-Berry-is-the-heart-and-soul-of-team/32108d49-f783-46e5-915f-2c05332a85b3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 303Chiefs Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Did you see Alex Smith interview yesterday? I really think Dorsey f***ed up big time on this one. We won't be the same without him and this will not go over well in the locker room. I am telling you guys, if we don't re-sign him in February, you can forget a Super Bowl anytime soon. He is one of the most important pieces to this team. You can't easily replace leadership like that. http://www.chiefs.com/media-center/videos/Alex-Smith-Berry-is-the-heart-and-soul-of-team/32108d49-f783-46e5-915f-2c05332a85b3 I don't know how to describe correctly how this is simply typical Chiefs front office bull. We always seem to be more interested in looking like football/salary masterminds instead of ensuring that we do what it takes to win championships. My gut tells me that this will put the Chiefs behind the ball for any sort of momentum we had going into the season. You can disagree but football analysts all agree that the Chiefs blew it so I'm not in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Seems to me to be the same song and dance teams go through every season. How is this different than Houston or Bowe in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 303Chiefs Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Seems to me to be the same song and dance teams go through every season. How is this different than Houston or Bowe in the past? Bowe was lazy, immature, and worthless. Berry and Houston are proven leaders, probowlers, team captains, they don't get arrested, they work hard, and if they go somewhere else's like bowe, they won't be riding the bench. Easy question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,713 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Berry is terrific...But it takes a ton of players to win a Super Bowl. Dorsey knows how this works from his time in Green Bay. I am not sure Andy knows based on some of his wacky personnel moves in Philly. I trust Dorsey....Signing Berry to a long term, BIG dollar deal is a significant chess move. Most fans are playing checkers... w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Seems to me to be the same song and dance teams go through every season. How is this different than Houston or Bowe in the past? Berry is a born leader and he has been since High School. The other two were pot heads. Houston didn't even start until his Senior year of college and no one could count on Bowe for anything. Berry is on that Ray Lewis level. He's the heart of the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Berry is not half the player Houston is. I agree with the great person stance, but don't know how Berry got to be greatest of all time in your mind. He is good. Not great. Will never be a HOF IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Bowe was lazy, immature, and worthless. Berry and Houston are proven leaders, probowlers, team captains, they don't get arrested, they work hard, and if they go somewhere else's like bowe, they won't be riding the bench. Easy question... I was referring to the contract processes, not the quality on the field. Nearly every year there's one critical player who holds out because of a contract dispute. Happen to lots of teams and I used Houston and Bowe as examples of players late to TC for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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