Eric Berry

[West 6,713]

DJ dropped and dropped some more that year.

 

Chiefs and Arrowhead were quite lucky.

 

w

[liquidfriend 1,151]

A lot of people get burned by Gronkowski. He is not alone.

 

Eric Berry was drafted too soon. I said so when it happened. Unfortunately, the talent in the draft was not very good that year. It seems every year the Chiefs have a high draft pick the talent is off. They have done well in a few, but usually a little lower. Derrick Johnson would be the exception. I was delighted with that pick, and I was beside myself when Pioli, and Haley shelved him to make an example out of him.

 

The 2010 draft was pretty damn good. 7 players out of top 10 turning into pro bowlers is pretty good, so idk where you're really going with this. The biggest disappointment from that group led his team to back to back AFC Championships and gave ua the most hilarious play in NFL history.

 

I think people are getting awfully revisionist ITT. Berry was the next era Ed Reed coming out of Tennessee and decided to make him an in the box safety.

[Mugsy 225]

Needs another year to prove himself. Got burned by Gronkowski in the playoffs thats all I remember from him in that game

 

That was Sean Smith. 

[Mugsy 225]

and he got made a fool of by  that old TE with SD. He really has not lived up to the Billing of being a TE shut down safety and hats why he was drafted so high

 

No sir, he struggled in that area as a SS. When they moved him to FS last year he graded higher than any other safety against the pass. He never got beat deep once. They aren't asking him to sit in the box and pick up the TE anymore. He is playing zone all the time and he's become a ball hawk that teams don't throw at. He is a superstar in Sutton's defense at FS. Do you remember Lewis in the Colts playoff game? 

[eraser 722]

The 2010 draft was pretty damn good. 7 players out of top 10 turning into pro bowlers is pretty good, so idk where you're really going with this. The biggest disappointment from that group led his team to back to back AFC Championships and gave ua the most hilarious play in NFL history.

 

I think people are getting awfully revisionist ITT. Berry was the next era Ed Reed coming out of Tennessee and decided to make him an in the box safety.

Earl Thomas was taken 9 places back of Eric Berry, and is rated better. Based on need at 5 in the draft, it was too soon to take a fs / ss.

 

Looking back, would you still take Eric Berry over Rob Gronkowski? Gronk went 37 picks after Berry. Heck, the Chiefs took Dexter McCluster before Gronkowski. Iupati was a bigger need at the time. My favorite player in that draft that year was Suh. He was a model citizen at Nebraska. We had no idea he would become an idiot overnight.

 

The Chiefs did not whiff with Eric Berry. He is a very good player. However, he was taken too soon, which meant they paid way too much for him, and the rest of the draft was a bust.

[DieHard 2,061]

I disagree about him being a ball hawking deep safety stud, but do think he was much better playing out of the box than when they tried to make him a LB.

 

Let's say he is that good. Is a safety worth that kind of money? I just don't know. With the spot we are in and the young DBs we have. I would focus on the fat boys.

[xen 1,010,220]

Pay in this order:

1 Poe

2 berry

3 fisher

 

Chris Jones was not drafted to be a nose, and he is not Poe's replacement. He was drafted to replace Howard in a year and he's best suited on the outside. Putting him at the nose full time does not play to his strengths, although he could be do it on a limited basis.

 

Howard will not come as cheap on the next contract. Sign Poe.

 

Berry is tough. He's not a corner playing safety as some seem to want him to be, but he may be the most versatile safety in the NFL. He can cover backs and tight ends and that's good enough. He is the clear leader of that defense, and some don't put a high value on that but I disagree.

 

That said, no I wouldn't overpay him. If he was a single high safety I'd consider it, but he's not. What is overpaid though? 50 for 5 years?

 

I think you could probably replace his production. I don't think you can replace what Poe does as easily.

 

I agree with diehard. I don't think they should overpay but they will.

 

I like Fish. But I think you could probably replace him with a high draft pick for less and be ok. The best pass rushers in the West come from the right side.

[Bilyous2 884]

I'm old school.  No matter what is happening in today's schemes, I just cannot abandon the idea the LT is absolutely crucial in the passing game and requires experience.  They are hard to find and take at least three years to become really good. Fisher had the shoulder injury, so he couldn't keep his hands high for a year after his injury.  He added bulk, and is getting his footwork where it should be.  It would be monstrous in my view to take a #1, develop him at great expense and effort, then let him walk and become a star for another team just as he is finally coming into his own....and replace him with a rookie.  It just doesn't make sense. The LT is absolutely crucial, especially with Alex have maybe two years to go and then being replaced by a young guy who needs confidence. It would be a bad move to let Fish go, no matter where the rush is coming from these days.

 

I would say, Poe, then Fisher, then Berry.

[PhataLerror 370]

I like Fish. But I think you could probably replace him with a high draft pick for less and be ok. The best pass rushers in the West come from the right side.

Are you expecting the Chiefs to draft early any time soon? Your backup plan is much easier said than done. Fisher hasn't become an elite left tackle, but he's flashed high-end ability that is not easily replaced.

 

I think you've got your retention order backward. Fisher probably would bring the best value for his position, and if gets replaced with a rookie down the road, the result will likely be that you'll get to see a lot more Berry and Poe than you want to.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I think it's best to wait and see with Fisher.

 

People were clamoring that the Chiefs needed to replace an injury prone Albert, and we haven't seen Fisher hold up for 16 games yet.

[Mugsy 225]

Earl Thomas was taken 9 places back of Eric Berry, and is rated better. Based on need at 5 in the draft, it was too soon to take a fs / ss.

 

 

 

You're wrong dude. Earl misses tackles and get beat deep occasionally. Berry doesn't since moving to FS

 

 

 

Berry was ranked #1 last year. He was the starting AP All Pro FS. That is way beyond being a pro bowler... Berry is the total package. The key is playing him in space. It is obvious that's what he likes the best.

 

Watch him go straight through King Dunlap to make a tackle and blow up the play. Dunlap is a LT! Cam Chancellor doesn't even do that. It is ridiculous. Berry closes on the runner better than anyone since Polamalu. He is a special talent.

 

 

 

You need to check out these articles and film. The second link is film review of him from the San Diego game.

 

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/12/10/9884838/chiefs-eric-berry-is-the-no-1-rated-safety-by-pro-football-focus

 

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2015/11/27/eric-berry-great-story-great-safety/

 

When you throw in the leadership with the talent, you have to pay the man. Leadership is everything in today's NFL. It is the biggest difference between good teams and bad teams.

[PhataLerror 370]

Berry was ranked #1 last year. He was the starting AP All Pro FS. That is way beyond being a pro bowler... Berry is the total package. The key is playing him in space. It is obvious that's what he likes the best.

Question: Do you believe those in the Associated Press with a vote have watched every game played by every team every year? Further, do you think they did a comprehensive film review of the players that were potential candidates for All-Pro, MVP, etc.? If they did, on what basis did they vote for anyone?

When you throw in the leadership with the talent, you have to pay the man. Leadership is everything in today's NFL. It is the biggest difference between good teams and bad teams.

 

Another question: As important as ________ is (fill in the blank with any seemingly most important tangible or intangible), when you overpay a player at a position, what's going to be left to pay the people that player is supposed to complement.

 

Every player with a few years of experience in the league has a highlight reel, and you can dig up film on the failures of even the most elite players. When one resorts to that, they take advantage of a small sample size to skew the facts. A player can make a few good plays during their career, but do they make the players around them better? How much better? Will that player make a rookie better? Will that player make what would be a special teams player on another team into a starter for his own team?

 

It's not that I think Eric Berry is a bad player. He is one of the best at his position. There is a point however where a player just isn't worth what he would be paid. Sometimes it's better to afford Top-Ten players that will complement each other than it is to over pay one guy and have to complement his with a scrub.

[Mugsy 225]

I believe being named a starter on the AP All Pro Team is about as good as it gets. That team includes only starters. There are no back ups. Divisions are irrelevant and fans don't vote. Keep in mind the AP also votes in Hall of Famers. I don't have the answer to your questions. However, I do know it is widely regarded as the best representation of an all star team in any sport. I suspect the writers watch every game their team plays and also sees their opponents. They probably watch every playoff game too. 

 

"As important as mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving?" Not sure what you are getting at? This will be his second contract, he is a leader, he is special, and he is fairly young. Most importantly, he is not asking for that much guaranteed money. From what I understand it is like $20 million guaranteed? When you consider the cap is expected to increase by $11 million next year it's really not that big of a deal. 

 

I don't see how you can't resign him. It would be really bad for the locker room if you let him walk. Especially with all you have invested in young DBs. He will be resigned. 

[Chiefmanzada 466]

That was Sean Smith.

Nah he bit hard on the pump fake and let him run right by for their easiest touchdown of their season

[Chiefmanzada 466]

Eraser I don't care if a lot of players get burned by Gronkowski, that's no excuse. If he wants to be the best and be paid the best then he better play like the best.

 

That TD against him was embarrassing and disappointing because I love the guy

[PhataLerror 370]

"As important as mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving?" Not sure what you are getting at? This will be his second contract, he is a leader, he is special, and he is fairly young. Most importantly, he is not asking for that much guaranteed money. From what I understand it is like $20 million guaranteed? When you consider the cap is expected to increase by $11 million next year it's really not that big of a deal.

He's also a safety, a position perhaps bringing less value for performance than any other defensive position except for nose tackle. (I am not saying safety is an unimportant position, but I am saying that it's an easier position to fill with better than replacement level talent, and this is why safeties and nose tackles tend to draft later than other defensive positions.) It's not about the guaranteed money, but about what he is worth as a player compared to what his replacement is worth.

 

As for "bad for the locker room," no, it's just business. The Chiefs gave him the franchise tender, and he hasn't signed it. If he balks at what the Chiefs are offering, he can move on. His teammates understand that they are already paying for the 11th-most expensive wide receiver in the league, the second-most expensive tight end, the fifth-most expensive runningback, the most expensive 3-4 defensive tackle, the 13th-most expensive 3-4 defensive end, the most expensive linebacker in the league, and the most expensive punter in the league, and contracts are coming due for Eric Fisher and Dontari Poe. If Berry wants to be in Kansas City, great. The Chiefs have been very gracious to him, and Berry could acknowledge that in his extension. He probably won't.

[PhataLerror 370]

I believe being named a starter on the AP All Pro Team is about as good as it gets. That team includes only starters. There are no back ups. Divisions are irrelevant and fans don't vote. Keep in mind the AP also votes in Hall of Famers. I don't have the answer to your questions. However, I do know it is widely regarded as the best representation of an all star team in any sport. I suspect the writers watch every game their team plays and also sees their opponents. They probably watch every playoff game too.

One other thing I failed to mention: I'm not a fan of fan-based voting, but there are many fans with more understanding about football and with a keener eye on the league in general than a lot of those AP folks. The bottom line is that they are not able to spend a lot of time digging up tape on a variety of players at a position, so they often look to the stats to provide a guideline to find a player that stands out, and then they watch some highlights. Very few would have watched full games, and I dare say almost none have watched enough games to where they really got a taste of what everyone in the league can do.

 

Stats are one of the worst bases for identifying the league's best players, but it's what the AP writers fall back on, and it's why not-most-important-players like Cam Newton get voted MVP.

[Mugsy 225]

He's also a safety, a position perhaps bringing less value for performance than any other defensive position except for nose tackle. (I am not saying safety is an unimportant position, but I am saying that it's an easier position to fill with better than replacement level talent, and this is why safeties and nose tackles tend to draft later than other defensive positions.) It's not about the guaranteed money, but about what he is worth as a player compared to what his replacement is worth.

 

As for "bad for the locker room," no, it's just business. The Chiefs gave him the franchise tender, and he hasn't signed it. If he balks at what the Chiefs are offering, he can move on. His teammates understand that they are already paying for the 11th-most expensive wide receiver in the league, the second-most expensive tight end, the fifth-most expensive runningback, the most expensive 3-4 defensive tackle, the 13th-most expensive 3-4 defensive end, the most expensive linebacker in the league, and the most expensive punter in the league, and contracts are coming due for Eric Fisher and Dontari Poe. If Berry wants to be in Kansas City, great. The Chiefs have been very gracious to him, and Berry could acknowledge that in his extension. He probably won't.

 

I disagree. Look at how many veteran safeties Dorsey has brought in here. Safety is one of the key positions in our defense. We play a lot of three safety sets. Teams game plan for Berry. I think Reid sees Berry as his Brian Dawkins. He probably values him much more than we do. You can't measure leadership in terms of traditional value. You are overthinking this.

[Mugsy 225]

One other thing I failed to mention: I'm not a fan of fan-based voting, but there are many fans with more understanding about football and with a keener eye on the league in general than a lot of those AP folks. The bottom line is that they are not able to spend a lot of time digging up tape on a variety of players at a position, so they often look to the stats to provide a guideline to find a player that stands out, and then they watch some highlights. Very few would have watched full games, and I dare say almost none have watched enough games to where they really got a taste of what everyone in the league can do.

 

Stats are one of the worst bases for identifying the league's best players, but it's what the AP writers fall back on, and it's why not-most-important-players like Cam Newton get voted MVP.

 

They are beat writers for different teams. They watch every game their team plays. They might watch some of them twice. They see every opponent their team plays. They probably also watch a game when their team isn't playing - game of the week etc. Stats are irrelevant man. Berry's stats weren't off the charts last year but, his impact on the game was obvious. You can't measure things like the video I showed above in stats. Once you get to know me you will realize I am not a stat guy. I invest much more in intangibles. 

[Mugsy 225]

Nah he bit hard on the pump fake and let him run right by for their easiest touchdown of their season

I stand corrected... He beat Berry on the pump fake and Smith of the other TD

[jetlord 10,209]

No one should question that Berry is elite at his position and an important part of the Chiefs.  But the staff and fans are in this for the long term.  Paying Berry is important.  Not overpaying is just as important.  Too many times fans look at popular players up for a big payday and say, "Just pay the man."  I think we saw it here with LJ and DBowe.  Not putting Berry in that catagory, but the principle is the same.  It's a team game and paying extreme money to seven players isn't going to work if the other 15 are scrubs.  Dorsey has to keep a balance and while overpaying might work once in a while, it can't happen every time a popular players holds out.  I say offer Berry what Dorsey thinks he's worth within the overall structure and if Berry won't play for that, then move on with the young players.

[SEMO 6,811]

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/7/14/12187162/multiple-reports-say-eric-berry-chiefs-unlikely-to-reach-deal-negotiation-tactic

[oldtimer 8,686]

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/7/14/12187162/multiple-reports-say-eric-berry-chiefs-unlikely-to-reach-deal-negotiation-tactic

 

^^^^ a bunch of  drivel but

Multiple reports say Eric Berry, Chiefs unlikely to reach deal;

[Bilyous2 884]

12 million for  each of two franchise tag years is safer for the Chiefs than a longer term deal for slightly less per year. Berry is great, but other pieces of the puzzle are more important, and Berry will be getting up there in age by then.  Even with that, they could still sign him with a two year deal depending on his continued mastery of the position.  I think it is safer also, because Hodgkin's  Disease could still recur or he could age quicker than expected due to the brutal chemotherapy he underwent.  The only real advantage of a long term deal would be the cap space a long deal could create.  That could be quite a big deal.  But I still like the 12 million for two years.  We can get cap space in other ways.

[oldtimer 8,686]

12 million for  each of two franchise tag years is safer for the Chiefs than a longer term deal for slightly less per year. Berry is great, but other pieces of the puzzle are more important, and Berry will be getting up there in age by then.  Even with that, they could still sign him with a two year deal depending on his continued mastery of the position.  I think it is safer also, because Hodgkin's  Disease could still recur or he could age quicker than expected due to the brutal chemotherapy he underwent.  The only real advantage of a long term deal would be the cap space a long deal could create.  That could be quite a big deal.  But I still like the 12 million for two years.  We can get cap space in other ways.

 

 

he's NOT going to take a 2 year deal for $12 mil per unless $24 mil of that is guaranteed...jeez