Mugsy 225 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I am not a fan of his attitude either. That said, I don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/8/16/12494002/a-busted-ford-and-a-creaky-zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 A Busted Ford and a Creaky Zombo... By Chris_Clark @ChrisClarkNFL on Aug 16, 2016, 10:10a 34 Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports Tweet Share (1) Pin Kansas City’s biggest issue headed into the season is their pass rush. Signing Justin Houston to a major contract extension last year was the right move but with Houston sidelined for an undisclosed amount of time the Chiefs have to find a way to replace him. Kansas City’s loss of Houston gets worse with Tamba Hali trying to recover from offseason knee surgery. There are a couple of pass rushers on the Chiefs roster that want the opportunity to step into Houston’s starting role. To this point however, none of them have shown that they are worthy of starting, even the Chiefs former first round pick in Dee Ford. Frank Zombo, Dezman Moses and Jonathan Massaquoi have the most experience of the pass rushers left but none of them currently provides the ability to get after the QB that KC needs this season. Dee Ford Of the six outside linebackers on the roster, Dee Ford is the biggest disappointment. As a former first round pick the Chiefs saw a first step that was very fast. Ford’s first step should have given him the ability to be a very effective pass rusher once he learned the new position, added some weight and transitioned to linebacker. To this point Ford has yet to add the weight needed to help against the run and hasn’t developed the awareness to read running plays very effectively. I watched every snap Ford had in Saturday’s game and while it is a small sample it showed several areas that have to be fixed if he is going to help the Chiefs this season. Ford is still not quick enough diagnosing the run. He struggles to keep contain on the outside as he had three runs that went around him in just two series against the Seahawks. When he did rush the passer there wasn’t much to his attempt to get to the QB outside his speed rush which wasn’t effective. Ford’s first step was enough to get him drafted in the first round but it alone isn't enough to make him a productive player for the Chiefs. While only playing 19 snaps I counted at least five snaps where Ford wasn’t even pursuing the ball down the line or when it went to other side of the field. One of the most underrated aspects of a player like Tamba’s game is his motor that never stops. He will always pursue the ball until the whistle and he is relentless getting after the passer. The one rush I saw Ford do well was in the second quarter on 3rd and 9. The Chiefs had Ford lined up on the line in a three point stance with his hand in the dirt. For that one snap he looked very dangerous coming off the edge. His quickness and fire off the line was enough to get him past the tackle trying to block him. Unfortunately the ball went to the other side of the field and Ford didn’t get a chance to get a hit on Russell Wilson. Frank Zombo Frank Zombo brings something to the Chiefs that Andy Reid and John Dorsey covet. He’s a very versatile player. He can play both inside and outside linebacker and is smart enough to be in the right position most of the time. While he brings versatility to the defense he is not a player that is going to do great things from the outside rushing the passer. As I said previously he is usually in the right position but that doesn’t mean he makes the plays. I watched the Seahawks run nearly identical read option plays at him on Saturday. On the first, Zombo froze and Wilson handed off the ball to the running back who was three yards down field before Zombo reacted and tried to tackle him. The second read option, Frank didn’t hesitate to take on the RB and tackle him to the ground. Unfortunately, Wilson had kept the ball and took off through the vacated area Zombo was supposed to cover. Frank doesn’t have the strength to get past tackles at this level and he doesn’t have Ford’s first step. As a pass rusher the only thing he has going for him is his motor. He will generally stay disciplined and keep outside contain but he isn’t going to be quick enough to diagnose a running play and hit it for a loss consistently. He can help against the run but he doesn’t have the athleticism to help in coverage consistently. Dezman Moses Dezman Moses is a player that has shown in flashes for Kansas City several times over the past couple of preseasons. While he doesn’t have the first step that Dee Ford does, he has a larger repertoire of pass rushing moves and his motor is always going. Moses needs to continue his hard play and his endless pursuit of the football as there may be room for him on Sunday’s in the fall. Moses had a couple of very good snaps against the Seahawks. He blew up a running play for a 3 yard loss late in the second quarter after diagnosing the play right after the snap. He didn’t hesitate to go after the ball carrier and that allowed him the chance to get the tackle for a loss. Dezman also had a couple of QB pressures. He beat the LT off of the ball and just missed having a sack by about a half second. On a second down play as the second quarter wound down Moses came off the edge and forced the deep throw to be off target as he was in the QB’s face Jonathan Massaquoi Jonathan Massaquoi had the most snaps at OLB against the Seahawks. I can’t see that trend continuing with the way that rookie Dadi Nicolas played. I think both Mulumba and Massaquoi could lose snaps to Nicolas throughout the rest of the preseason so the Chiefs can see what they have in the rookie. When Massaquoi was on the field he wasn’t causing the disruption you would hope for from a player with his experience. Massaquoi started making his presence felt in the fourth quarter when he was going up against 3rd and 4th string offensive lineman. If that is the extent of his ability to put pressure on the QB he won't be able to help the Chiefs this season. Massaquoi needs to make the most of his opportunities in each game to have a chance to make the roster. Andy Mulumba Anthony Mulumba played the second most snaps at OLB behind Jonathan Massaquoi. Mulumba had a couple of snaps where he made good reads and was able to make a play on the ball carrier. Mulumba stood out to me at training camp on several plays. He had back to back big hits in 9 on 7 and was not afraid to get after the O-line and hit the RB’s hard. He had a great play on a 3rd and one as the second quarter ran down where he got under the block and was able to stop the runner short of a first. Mulumba is another player that must make more of his opportunities. He has to be more consistent on a play to play basis and needs to be delivering more hits on the RB's and he needs to get to the QB in the coming games. KC is in desperate need of another edge rusher and if he can find a way to be more consistent he has a chance to stick or at the very least be on the practice squad. Dadi Nicolas Dadi Nicolas was very impressive on Saturday. He showed the ability to get to the passer and be disruptive in the running game as well. In just twenty one snaps, just over half that Mulumba and Massaquoi received, Nicolas was able to get a TFL and two sacks. His second sack was the most impressive as he came around the right tackle and chased the QB down on other hash mark. He also put pressure on the QB three other times and would have had the game winning sack had his defender not horsecollared him on his way to the QB. While in college Nicolas showed his toughness as he played out of position as a 3-tech on the defensive line at only 235 pounds. Had Nicolas’ talent been properly used he more than likely would not have been around to draft where the Chiefs picked him. Nicholas will need to develop more strength to play at the position and add some weight but he is a player that should be able to help if given then chance this season. Other Options The Chiefs have players that are capable of collapsing the pocket on the defensive line. This could help them create a pass rush without having to have all of the pressure come from the outside backers. Jaye Howard, Dontari Poe, Chris Jones and Allen Bailey will be able to keep the QB from being able to step up in the pocket which should help the pass rush on the outside. Bob Sutton will definitely send exotic blitzes when the regular season starts. The issue that he will face is that his young secondary will have to be disciplined enough to be in position regularly for the blitzes to be able to get to the QB. Eric Berry, Ron Parker and Derrick Johnson have all shown an affinity for getting after the QB and will be able to help but Kansas City can't rely heavily on the blitz or offenses will make them pay. Maybe Kansas City gets lucky and there is a player over the next couple of weeks that gets released because of cap issues that they could pick up to help their pass rush. The Chiefs will have work to do to get under the cap at this point regardless of any more signings that the season will bring. I'm betting they will restructure Alex's deal or maybe Justin Houston's deal to spread out their cap hits a little more. While unlikely another option is extending Poe before the season starts. Dropping his salary down a couple million would get them the operating room they would desire. I can't see this happening as I think Poe will command too much money and will make resigning Eric Berry virtually impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 "One of the most underrated aspects of a player like Tamba’s game is his motor that never stops" what a crock of shit..that is probably Tamba's most appreciated quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The one rush I saw Ford do well was in the second quarter on 3rd and 9. The Chiefs had Ford lined up on the line in a three point stance with his hand in the dirt. For that one snap he looked very dangerous coming off the edge. His quickness and fire off the line was enough to get him past the tackle trying to block him. Unfortunately the ball went to the other side of the field and Ford didn’t get a chance to get a hit on Russell Wilson. This guy didn't watch shit. His best rush was at the end of the first quarter with one minute left. He blew up the play and prevented a TD. The witch hunt is officially on Ford. OK, it's true he was very average against the run. However, his pass rush and coverage skills were good the other night. He's going to get double digit sacks this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 this thread will most likely go on for the next 18-19 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsy 1,137 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 yep. I'm one of the guys riding on Ford's ass, but I do realize that he didn't "draft himself" in the first round. Dorsey did. And since he was taken in the 1st, I think all of our expectations have been high on this guy. Is it really his fault that Dorsey "reached" for him? Ford probably would've been a low 2nd early 3rd round pick, had Dorsey not reached....JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 this thread will most likely go on for the next 18-19 weeks Mugsy will remind us of it, even if we want it to go away. However, I'm alright with it. We can make this the next post that lasts forever. Didn't we already do that one time. I believe there were 500 pages about nothing. Who was that, a running back, who got cut. What was his name? Can someone remind me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Sam... Samcon... Samkon Ga... Samcon GADO Where is the Samkon Gado thread? Maybe we can beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Ford is toast. He is too small for an LB, not mean enough, and is too dumb. He never knows where he is supposed to be. but he has a quick first step. He is like the 50 yard dash for people with no sense of direction. Basically, the Chiefs drafted Forrest Gump in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 "One of the most underrated aspects of a player like Tamba’s game is his motor that never stops" what a crock of shit..that is probably Tamba's most appreciated quality ??? That doesn't make sense, OT. You are quoting a sentence that states that Tamba's motor is underrated and then going on to say that Tamba's motor is his most appreciated quality. When something is "underrated", it means that people are not rating it as high as it should be. When someone is overrated, it means that people's ratings of that person are too high, that they are not really that good. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Ford is toast. He is too small for an LB, not mean enough, and is too dumb. He never knows where he is supposed to be. but he has a quick first step. He is like the 50 yard dash for people with no sense of direction. Basically, the Chiefs drafted Forrest Gump in the first round. Forrest Gump could run back kicks. Although he wasn't smart enough to stop running when he reached the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraser 722 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ??? That doesn't make sense, OT. You are quoting a sentence that states that Tamba's motor is underrated and then going on to say that Tamba's motor is his most appreciated quality. When something is "underrated", it means that people are not rating it as high as it should be. When someone is overrated, it means that people's ratings of that person are too high, that they are not really that good. Right? Motors wear out, even if they run strong, they eventually can't continue. Tamba's motor was nonstop when he was young. He has done an amazing job, but he now looks to be 48 to 50 ears old. Seriously, have you looked at Tamba, he does not defy age, he accelerated age. He looks much, much older than his chronological age or that which we were told was his age (considering he was born in war torn Liberia). For all we know Tamba is 53 years old, and closer to social security retirement than many of his fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ??? That doesn't make sense, OT. You are quoting a sentence that states that Tamba's motor is underrated and then going on to say that Tamba's motor is his most appreciated quality. When something is "underrated", it means that people are not rating it as high as it should be. When someone is overrated, it means that people's ratings of that person are too high, that they are not really that good. Right? right over the head and out of the park Bil. Its not an underrated aspect..everybody appreciates his motor..how can his motor be underrated if everybody appreciates that aspect and considers it his biggest strength? If anybody does not rate his motor as high as it should be then they are either blind or just plain SNOOPID! me thinks you need another colonoscopy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 right over the head and out of the park Bil. Its not an underrated aspect..everybody appreciates his motor..how can his motor be underrated if everybody appreciates that aspect and considers it his biggest strength? If anybody does not rate his motor as high as it should be then they are either blind or just plain SNOOPID! me thinks you need another colonoscopy . Me thinks there is a failure to communicate. I think Hali's motor is terrific. When people say something is "underrated", it means people think it should be rated higher. It seems like we are speaking two different languages and trying to say the same thing. Anyway, let's drop it. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsy 1,137 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Tamba is 53 Yrs. old!! Lol! He does look a lot older than they say he is, that's for sure. I think Tamba's at the point in his career/life that he's just doing the Chiefs a favor. I'm sure he wants an SB ring, but I bet he would've retired after last year if they hadn't asked him back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I'd say the Chiefs did him a pretty big favor in return on his current contract. So, it's mutual. Also, Mugsy, I'd like to see your play breakdown on how Dee Ford played well. Really am curious. I'd say this fan writeup on AP meshes a lot better with what I saw. Ford is still not quick enough diagnosing the run. He struggles to keep contain on the outside as he had three runs that went around him in just two series against the Seahawks. When he did rush the passer there wasn’t much to his attempt to get to the QB outside his speed rush which wasn’t effective. Ford’s first step was enough to get him drafted in the first round but it alone isn't enough to make him a productive player for the Chiefs. While only playing 19 snaps I counted at least five snaps where Ford wasn’t even pursuing the ball down the line or when it went to other side of the field. The only noteworthy thing about Dee Ford all camp was that he had the shits for awhile and uh I think that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Ford is an absolute bust until proven otherwise. Guy is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I'd say the Chiefs did him a pretty big favor in return on his current contract. So, it's mutual. Also, Mugsy, I'd like to see your play breakdown on how Dee Ford played well. Really am curious. I'd say this fan writeup on AP meshes a lot better with what I saw. The only noteworthy thing about Dee Ford all camp was that he had the shits for awhile and uh I think that's it. I summed it up pretty well if you read what I said. I gave specifics. Mainly I said his run support was ok but his pass rush was effective when it wasn't a two step drop. He really disrupted two pass plays. The one at the one minute mark in the first quarter saved a TD. If your article is the one I read last week, the dumbass author didn't he mention that. This week he was terrible. I would cut him. Seriously, he had no heart when we needed him most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I summed it up pretty well if you read what I said. I gave specifics. This week he was terrible. I would cut him. Seriously, he has no heart. Amen what would his cap hit be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhataLerror 370 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 So when does Dee Ford get to play with the benefit of a solid defender on the other side of the line? In Hali's recent good games, he had Houston, and in Houston's recent good games, he had Hali. Ford has had... Frank Zombo. Most of the people that are complaining about Ford are evaluating him in a vacuum. When quarterbacks go largely untouched, people excuse Houston (a veteran player in the league more than twice as long as Ford), but when Ford is on the field with a backup secondary and backup linebackers providing support, people crush him for not carrying the defense. Ford hasn't blown anyone away with his progress, but I do think that at two years in the league and getting starts almost exclusively in games where multiple defenders are injured, you are not seeing Ford in a circumstance where he can succeed and develop confidence. He does need to take a step forward this year, but I can't see how it would be fair to expect Hali or Houston numbers from Ford when the same support almost always enjoyed by the incumbent starters hasn't been around for Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugsy 225 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I have always thought Houston was overrated and benefits greatly from playing opposite Hali and going against right tackles instead of left ones. Maybe Hali will help Dee too? However, going against RTs doesn't seem to make a difference to ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,686 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 So when does Dee Ford get to play with the benefit of a solid defender on the other side of the line? In Hali's recent good games, he had Houston, and in Houston's recent good games, he had Hali. Ford has had... Frank Zombo. Most of the people that are complaining about Ford are evaluating him in a vacuum. When quarterbacks go largely untouched, people excuse Houston (a veteran player in the league more than twice as long as Ford), but when Ford is on the field with a backup secondary and backup linebackers providing support, people crush him for not carrying the defense. Ford hasn't blown anyone away with his progress, but I do think that at two years in the league and getting starts almost exclusively in games where multiple defenders are injured, you are not seeing Ford in a circumstance where he can succeed and develop confidence. He does need to take a step forward this year, but I can't see how it would be fair to expect Hali or Houston numbers from Ford when the same support almost always enjoyed by the incumbent starters hasn't been around for Ford. its about effort and heart.he shows neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefsfan1963 1,101 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I have always thought Houston was overrated and benefits greatly from playing opposite Hali and going against right tackles instead of left ones. Maybe Hali will help Dee too? However, going against RTs doesn't seem to make a difference to ford.Couldn't you say the same thing about most players in the league especially QBs and WRs? Did Manning make Harrison and Wayne in Indy as well as Thomas and Sanders in Denver or did they help him? What about DT and Neil Smith, did one benefit because of the other? I personally think they were both outstanding players, with DT being better. Good teams have good players and play well together. Rarely do good teams have one or two players who carry the entire team or even their side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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