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2.7 this year and 3.75 next. I know that's not a ton of money, but to me he is a backup ILB. He should be under a million per year IMO. I think Wilson backing up March is just fine and they are 1.1 combined. But maybe I am wrong about him and Mauga steps up this year.

Veteran scrubs make around 900 a year.

 

2-3 for an okay starter is just fine.

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Unable to watch the game but following it on the NFL.com tracker. Are they really making this many mistakes or is Fisher getting his normal gifts from the NFL? Last week the Chiefs had 7 penalties for 57 yards all game, already in the first half they have 4 penalties for 69 yards, now grant it 41 came off of a PI call.

 

Also on the reversal of Kelce's reception, was it an obvious incomplete or a phantom one?

 

Fisher tends to get a lot of calls that go his way.

We were certainly getting a lot of calls on us. We were a bit sloppy, mostly defense and some of the oline.

 

Kelce's reception was not a catch. Hot the ground. There was another one later that Trent thought was a catch that also wasn't... Dude didn't dot his 2nd foot. Looked like he might have until the 3rd angle showed he clearly did not.

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Ehinger has been tossed around like a stuffed doll. Fisher has to help protect, and does not get wide enough. The DE goes right by him. Ehiner is a problem. He should not be in there.

Dude, he was going against arguably the best defensive player in the league half the time. I thought he did pretty well considering he was going against Donald.

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Ehinger wasn't that good but he's a rookie so he can get better.

 

Chris Conley should start at the second WR position and have Wilson in the slot.

 

So far the offense looks good. And they still haven't busted out Jamaal!! I think most of you underestimate this fact. He's still on the team folks..

 

Our OLB's look bad. Thank goodness we will have a good offense to get us through the regular season because I see our defense being complete doo doo without double H(ouston)ali... Oh and Berry, but he should be back.

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Ehinger wasn't that good but he's a rookie so he can get better.

 

Chris Conley should start at the second WR position and have Wilson in the slot.

 

So far the offense looks good. And they still haven't busted out Jamaal!! I think most of you underestimate this fact. He's still on the team folks..

 

Our OLB's look bad. Thank goodness we will have a good offense to get us through the regular season because I see our defense being complete doo doo without double H(ouston)ali... Oh and Berry, but he should be back.

Jah Reid, Pughsley, or Fulton needs to replace Ehinger (especially when matched up against a big DT, which is quite often). Ehinger has very quick feet, and great technique. He does tend to get a bit high, which is not good, especially in that he is not particularly strong. Ehinger needs core strength development. He got pushed around quite a bit. There were only a few real brain farts. Most of it was due to him being overpowered

 

Conley has improved immensely. His catch radius is huge. He runs better, crisper, route patterns, and has learned to adjust his route, and use his body to create space. I was bothered by his lack of quickness. Conley is quick enough. He should start next to Maclin. He is the #2 WR. T. Hill has a chance of being a true #1 receiver. He has unbelievable quickness, and speed. He has developed some decent technique, and should only get better. Streater is not a guarantee on this team. That is why he took less money. Wilson has a small catching radius, but has excellent quickness, and is getting better at running better routes.

 

The biggest issue on D is their OLBs. The Chiefs lack two effective OLB. Dadi Nicolas made a lot of mistakes, but he was still better than Dee Ford. Ford outweighs Nicolas (who was a newcomer to football) by 17 lbs. He is 3 years older, and Nicolas was only a 6th round pick vs rd #1. Nicolas is better. The Chiefs really need better depth at OLB. Tamba may not be as good. Last season, it took Tamba two to three games to get it going. He is older, and may not last out the terms of his contract. If the Chiefs have to rely on Tamba, it should not be for very long. Houston is the third best OLB in the NFL. He is also hurt. If he comes back healthy, the Chiefs may be able to fake their way through for a while. If not, and Houston loses an entire year, they will be hard pressed to do anything in the post season this year.

 

The Chiefs have new personnel at DB. From game to game, we will not know what to expect. Expect #22 to do his job, and maybe yell at a few players. I don't think Andy Reid will kick him off the team for that. He might get a jersey with a c on it instead.

 

Finally, absent Knile Davis, no one scares me as KR or PR. T Hill goes east and west too much. He may be an outstanding WR, but we have yet to see a X factor worthy return.

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We were certainly getting a lot of calls on us. We were a bit sloppy, mostly defense and some of the oline.

 

Kelce's reception was not a catch. Hot the ground. There was another one later that Trent thought was a catch that also wasn't... Dude didn't dot his 2nd foot. Looked like he might have until the 3rd angle showed he clearly did not.

There are always a bazillion calls in pre-season.  The refs are trying to hone their eyes and get up to speed just like the players, and they are trying to limit the amount of injuries in the pre-season and  throughout the season.  Once the real games start they scale back their act.  Players get away with a lot more when the games count.  If not, fans would start losing interest.  Did you notice how confused that main ref was?  The one who was mic'ed and made all the official calls.  He looked lost out there.  As for Fisher, it isn't that he gets away with a lot.  He knows how to push the envelope and disguise things he is doing with his hands.  He is actually that good IMO.  Do you think that scuffle that got Maclin ejected would have been paid a whit of attention to during the heat of a real battle?  During a playoff game?  No way.

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Dude, he was going against arguably the best defensive player in the league half the time. I thought he did pretty well considering he was going against Donald.

I agree.  He was put in there against him for a reason.  Reid is trying to get him NFL ready.

 

Tyreek Hill has been completely overrated under the lights.

I don't agree.  The guy  has great hands and eyes and shown it in both games. He has dropped nothing that was catchable.  We all know he has speed.  The coaches have not sent him deep yet.  They are getting him to work on short and intermediate routes and form some kind of timing relationship with the QB's.

 

He is finding out that you can't stop and then run sideways on punt returns in the NFL.  In college you can do that.  It takes awhile to break that instinct.  It is counter-intuitive to run through tiny openings between big guys who are running at you at 20 mph.  You have to be fuckin' crazy.  Dexter McCluster never learned to do that.  Neither has DAT, although he has gotten better.  The instinct for fast guys is that they can run around the outside on kick returns.  They can't in the big leagues.

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Jah Reid, Pughsley, or Fulton needs to replace Ehinger (especially when matched up against a big DT, which is quite often). Ehinger has very quick feet, and great technique. He does tend to get a bit high, which is not good, especially in that he is not particularly strong. Ehinger needs core strength development. He got pushed around quite a bit. There were only a few real brain farts. Most of it was due to him being overpowered

 

Conley has improved immensely. His catch radius is huge. He runs better, crisper, route patterns, and has learned to adjust his route, and use his body to create space. I was bothered by his lack of quickness. Conley is quick enough. He should start next to Maclin. He is the #2 WR. T. Hill has a chance of being a true #1 receiver. He has unbelievable quickness, and speed. He has developed some decent technique, and should only get better. Streater is not a guarantee on this team. That is why he took less money. Wilson has a small catching radius, but has excellent quickness, and is getting better at running better routes.

 

The biggest issue on D is their OLBs. The Chiefs lack two effective OLB. Dadi Nicolas made a lot of mistakes, but he was still better than Dee Ford. Ford outweighs Nicolas (who was a newcomer to football) by 17 lbs. He is 3 years older, and Nicolas was only a 6th round pick vs rd #1. Nicolas is better. The Chiefs really need better depth at OLB. Tamba may not be as good. Last season, it took Tamba two to three games to get it going. He is older, and may not last out the terms of his contract. If the Chiefs have to rely on Tamba, it should not be for very long. Houston is the third best OLB in the NFL. He is also hurt. If he comes back healthy, the Chiefs may be able to fake their way through for a while. If not, and Houston loses an entire year, they will be hard pressed to do anything in the post season this year.

 

The Chiefs have new personnel at DB. From game to game, we will not know what to expect. Expect #22 to do his job, and maybe yell at a few players. I don't think Andy Reid will kick him off the team for that. He might get a jersey with a c on it instead.

 

Finally, absent Knile Davis, no one scares me as KR or PR. T Hill goes east and west too much. He may be an outstanding WR, but we have yet to see a X factor worthy return.

Getting Hali back helps, but he was 39th in sacks last year. And another year older. His knees should be feeling better which helps. Sometime we have got to get pressure from the left side to give Hali a chance. Right now I go with Dadi, but when things get desperate, I find a way to get Jones, Poe, Howard and Bailey on the field together.

 

I hope Dady can step in, but he needs some time to put some weight on to really be dominate. It will be interesting.

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Tyreek Hill has been completely overrated under the lights.

Foles is normally pitching the ball to Tyreek Hill, and Foles is here to get fixed. There were many big plays that were left on the field. I'm not bagging on Foles, because I think he is going to get it fixed, but he was the reason for most. Foles has an issue with being wildly inaccurate. Part of that is due to timing, part of that is due to a floating release point, and part of it is due to his footwork. One year after Andy Reid, Foles was still very good. Two years after, things began to fall apart. This can be fixed.

 

Back to Tyreek Hill, he has not demonstrated he is going to be an outstanding return specialist. However, he has demonstrated some unique receiver skills. My first take was Hill was going to be a much better receiver than a return specialist. I think this more now than ever. Hill may become a fantastic return guy, but he is a lot closer to being a receiver.

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Getting Hali back helps, but he was 39th in sacks last year. And another year older. His knees should be feeling better which helps. Sometime we have got to get pressure from the left side to give Hali a chance. Right now I go with Dadi, but when things get desperate, I find a way to get Jones, Poe, Howard and Bailey on the field together.

 

I hope Dady can step in, but he needs some time to put some weight on to really be dominate. It will be interesting.

Hali may have another year, or two. He may be done. We don't know yet. We will have a better idea when he starts practicing. Last year Hali seemed to have been done. He finally got it going, but he was not nearly as good. Dorsey said Hali still had knee issues. The hope was Hali's biggest issues were resolved when he had them scoped. However, it seems the Chiefs are now preparing the fans to the idea that Hali has not responded well, or he will not as much as we hoped.

 

Dadi played DE, which speaks of his toughness. Can he convert to OLB? It took Hali a full year to fully integrate into the position. Dadi is inconsistent according to some of analysts. I believe Seth Keysor and or Nick Jacobs said something to that effect. Either way, I watched the game, and just now watched it again. He is wildly inconsistent. Who can blame him? Dadi Nicolas is 17 lbs lighter than Dee Ford, was a 6th round pick vs 1st round, and is a rookie as opposed to being in his third season. The striking thing to me is despite this inconsistent play, Dadi Nicolas is better already than Dee Ford. If this is all Dee Ford has to offer, cut him. The Chiefs could cut Dee Ford, and it will actually cost them $1.5 M against their cap.

 

I think the Chiefs will utilize a four man front, and try other options at OLB, when they opt to run a straight 3-4. Actually, the Chiefs do not use a pure 3-4 defense much anyway.

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Getting Hali back helps, but he was 39th in sacks last year. And another year older. His knees should be feeling better which helps. Sometime we have got to get pressure from the left side to give Hali a chance. Right now I go with Dadi, but when things get desperate, I find a way to get Jones, Poe, Howard and Bailey on the field together.

 

I hope Dady can step in, but he needs some time to put some weight on to really be dominate. It will be interesting.

 

Dadi didn't even go against the twos in  Los Angeles. I like what I see but it's all been against the threes and fours so far. I like him but, he needs to show a lot more. We need to see what he does against real talent. 

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I agree.  He was put in there against him for a reason.  Reid is trying to get him NFL ready.

 

 

I don't agree.  The guy  has great hands and eyes and shown it in both games. He has dropped nothing that was catchable.  We all know he has speed.  The coaches have not sent him deep yet.  They are getting him to work on short and intermediate routes and form some kind of timing relationship with the QB's.

 

He is finding out that you can't stop and then run sideways on punt returns in the NFL.  In college you can do that.  It takes awhile to break that instinct.  It is counter-intuitive to run through tiny openings between big guys who are running at you at 20 mph.  You have to be fuckin' crazy.  Dexter McCluster never learned to do that.  Neither has DAT, although he has gotten better.  The instinct for fast guys is that they can run around the outside on kick returns.  They can't in the big leagues.

You can disagree all you want, but he has been.

 

The talk has been all about how dangerous he is and all I see is a guy who mostly runs East to West. That's worthless.

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You can disagree all you want, but he has been.

 

The talk has been all about how dangerous he is and all I see is a guy who mostly runs East to West. That's worthless.

Yep.  As far as running east to west on passing routes, though, those are the plays he is being given.  So far, it looks like he is passing the test.  The deep routes will be next, and if he does that, they will use him as a secret weapon at times during games that count.

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Yep.  As far as running east to west on passing routes, though, those are the plays he is being given.  So far, it looks like he is passing the test.  The deep routes will be next, and if he does that, they will use him as a secret weapon at times during games that count.

He's doing fine. The Chiefs are not giving him as much exposure as some would like. That may be by plan. He has no deep patterns. The bigger issue is the LG. If an appropriate pass blocker can not be found for LG, Alex Smith will not have time to pass a deep pass to a receiver, even if he has 4.2 speed.

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I don't see Wilson as the #2 this year. It would be a surprise to me if/when it happens.

Wilson may end up being the better return guy. He is quicker than he is fast, and he is fairly fast. I would like to see the Chiefs give him a shot returning kicks, and later punts.

 

Wilson is a guy you want to have on the field. He is a greater gunner for special teams. I like his attitude.

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I don't see Wilson as the #2 this year. It would be a surprise to me if/when it happens.

Me, too.  It seems pretty obvious to me that Conley is the #2.  He is a weapon.  The offense has a lot of weapons.  It's going to need them.

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We were certainly getting a lot of calls on us. We were a bit sloppy, mostly defense and some of the oline.

 

Kelce's reception was not a catch. Hot the ground. There was another one later that Trent thought was a catch that also wasn't... Dude didn't dot his 2nd foot. Looked like he might have until the 3rd angle showed he clearly did not.

Thanks for the info.
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I don't see Wilson as the #2 this year. It would be a surprise to me if/when it happens.

I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe they will move him from that spot. He is exactly what they want in a #2 IMO. They have two starters that are really good east west guys.

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He has been a starter for most of 2 years. Career total of 711 yards and 2 TDs. 115th in the league for yards per game last year.  He is 5'9".  I seriously doubt he is exactly what they are looking for.

 

Maclin 6'

 

Desean Jackson 5'10"

 

Avery 5'10"

 

2014 (Wilson's Rookie Year)

 

Tried to sign Emmanuel Sanders 5'11"

 

Drafted De'Anthony Thomas 5'8"

 

Signed Weston Dressler  5'8"

 

Signed Jerrell Jackson 6'

 

Signed Darrell Surgent 6'

 

Signed Fred Williams 6'

 

Signed Kyle Williams 5'10"

 

Signed Deon Anthony 6'

 

All of those guys are small per NFL standards.

 

Furthermore, Alex Smith doesn't throw the ball all over the place. He was 20th in passing yards in 2014 and 2015. Also, most of those yards come from yards after the catch. We don't throw it down the field very often. In Reid's KC offense, the #2 WR is the fourth option most of the time behind WR #1, TE, and RB. Did you see how wide open Wilson was in the end zone the first game and Alex didn't even notice? It's because he's the 4th read.

 

Most of the time, our #2 WR runs east west crossing routes. I would say up to 50% of the time. That's why when the #2 receiver scores it's almost always a long TD. They put the corner to sleep and Alex hits a big one now and again. I think you are misunderstanding this and thinking they want to throw the ball down field regularly. That really isn't the case. 

 

Below is a decent article that has a similar take that is much more detailed...

 

 

Why the Kansas City Chiefs don’t need a prolific number two wide receiver

 

 

 

 

The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs don’t need a prolific number two wide receiver.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again (right now in fact).

 

The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs DO NOT NEED A PROLIFIC NUMBER TWO WIDE RECEIVER.

 

Right now some of you are already angry with me. You may not even be reading these words. Some of you read that opening and jumped straight to the comments to tell me what an idiot I am and that I don’t know anything about football. Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion and in the NFL I’ve learned almost anything is possible.

 

That having been said, I feel like I can lay out for you pretty much undeniable proof that the Chiefs simply don’t need a prolific number two wide receiver to achieve their goals on offense this season. Most of these points I’ve made here and there in other places, but I thought this week I’d put them all together in one place.

 

First, let me be very clear when I say that I hope the Chiefs have a wide receiver (or three) step up this season and prove themselves valuable contributors on offense. If someone like Chris Conley, Rod Streater, or even Tyreek Hill steps up and gives Alex Smith a new weapon or adds a new dimension to the offense this season it will certainly make the team better.

 

I understand that if (knocks on wood) something happens to Jeremy Maclin that KC needs good enough other wideouts on the team to step up in his place. What they do not need is an individual to start opposite Maclin that puts up 75 reception, 900 yards, and 7 touchdowns. In fact, I will go so far as to say that if they do get those numbers from their number two wideout then something has gone wrong somewhere else on the team.

 

In today’s pass happy NFL it is not unusual to see number two wide receivers put up over 1,000 yards receiving. Just a couple of seasons ago we saw the Denver Broncos have four different players with double digit receiving touchdowns. The line between actual NFL statistics and the silly totals fans put up on their PlayStation or Xbox are becoming more and more blurred with every year that goes by. So its easy to have statistical envy.

 

It’s easy to covet the massive totals of other teams second receivers, but let’s go back to the Broncos for a second. Did that team that put up video game type numbers in 2013 win the Super Bowl? Nope. The Broncos did just win a Super Bowl, but it was with a team that played great defense and had a more balanced offense.

 

So ask yourself this…If the 2016 Kansas City Chiefs are going to win a Super Bowl is it going to more closely resemble the out of this world passing numbers like the 2013 Broncos or the balanced offense of the 2015 team? We all know the answer is the second.

 

So if the Chiefs are going to win with a good defense and a solid running game what does that mean for passing production?

 

Let’s take a look…

 

So if we can all agree that a winning formula for the current Chiefs includes a good defense and a good running game let’s see if we can look around the NFL and see how those effect the numbers put up in the passing game.

 

Something you have to keep in mind is that many of the teams that have produced huge passing games either (A) have little to no run game on offense, ( B) have poor defenses that lead to high scoring shoot outs, or © both of the above. If a team does have a good defense and a good run game you simply aren’t going to see the same numbers in the passing game.

 

I went back over the past three seasons (2013-2015) and looked at the teams that were in the top ten in the NFL in defensive points allowed, defensive yards allowed, and rushing yards per game. Over those three seasons a team has finished in all three of those areas 11 times (two of them being Chiefs teams). I then looked at the player (regardless of position) that finished second on those eleven teams in receptions. Here is the average production for a team’s number two player for those teams.

 

57.2 receptions

790.2 yards

6.7 touchdowns

 

That’s what the average number two passing weapon looks like on a team with a good defense and good running game in today’s NFL. I now give you Travis Kelce’s numbers from last season.

 

72 receptions

875 yards

5 touchdowns

 

The Kansas City Chiefs actually already have about as prolific of second receiver as a good defensive and running team can expect and his name is Travis Kelce. Kelce’s 72 receptions was actually the second highest of any number two target on the list (behind only John Brown’s 80 receptions for Arizona last season).

 

Since Andy Reid rolled into Kansas City with his version of the West Coast Offense, KC’s star running back Jamaal Charles has been a major force in the passing game. Yes, he missed most of last season with an injury, but if you take all the games he has played in Reid’s system and average out his receiving totals per 16 games played you get this.

 

59.9 receptions

530.7 receptions

5.9 touchdowns

 

So in Andy Reid’s offense Jamaal Charles has averaged more receptions per 16 games then the typical second receiving target on a team with a good defense and good running game across the NFL has. Now, should we expect JC to get 60 receptions in 2016?

 

Probably not, but given Reid’s offense and Alex Smith’s propensity to check down I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to predict that all of KC’s running backs combined will total 60 receptions. Last season KC backs totaled 53 receptions with Charles missing most of the season.

 

So if you have a good defense, a good running game, a true number one receiver in Jeremy Maclin, a true second target in tight end Travis Kelce, and a backfield that is going to catch about 60 passes what do you really have left to work with for the other receivers?

 

I’m glad you asked, I’ve got those numbers for you too….

 

The Kansas City Chiefs offense in 2016 isn’t going to be drastically different from the past three seasons. Andy Reid is still calling the plays, Alex Smith is still the quarterback, and has already been mentioned the Chiefs are still going to have a solid defense and a good running game. Therefore, it stands to reason that the number of passing plays isn’t going to be drastically different than the past three years.

 

The total pass completions for each of those seasons are 333 (2013), 320 (2014), 310 (2015). That’s an average of 321 passes completed per season during the Andy Reid/Alex Smith era in KC. Barring a serious injury to a key player or a complete collapse on defense it is safe to assume that the total completions for the coming season will be in that general area.

 

Jeremy Maclin had 87 receptions in his first season with the Chiefs. Assuming he stays healthy, a second year of working with Smith should only improve their relationship so let’s bump that 87 up a couple to an even 90 receptions for 2016.

 

Travis Kelce is in his prime, but let’s say his offseason reality dating show kept him from taking a step forward. We bumped Maclin up a couple, let’s knock a couple off Kelce and give him an even 70 receptions for 2016. We previously said that 60 receptions is a pretty safe estimate for KC’s combined backs. If you add those three together that already gives us 220 receptions. That’s only 100 shy of our expected total for the season.

 

To get my point across I’m going to make a way to early guess of which wideouts and tight ends make the 53 man roster. Let’s say they keep five more wideouts to go with Maclin and two more tight ends other than Kelce. If you want to keep more than that, fine, but that’s even more players to divide those remaining 100 receptions between.

You can also swap out guys that you think will beat out the players I picked, but that doesn’t really matter for the sake of the receiving totals, which is really what I’m getting at. So here are the remaining receivers and tight ends and reception predictions that add up to the remaining 100 that are available.

 

Chris Conley – 20

Albert Wilson – 15

Rod Streater – 15

Tyreek Hill – 15

Demarcus Robinson – 5

James O’Shaughnessy – 20

Demetrius Harris – 10

 

So you want a number two wide receiver to catch 75 passes, huh? Where are you taking those from? You taking them from Maclin, Kelce, and the running backs? If not you are basically saying that nobody else on the offense is going to contribute other than whomever your pick for the number two wideout is. Even if Maclin only catches 80 balls, Kelce 60, and the running backs a combined 50 (all of which seem low to me) that only gives you 30 more receptions to add to that list above. You still aren’t getting any of those guys up to 75 receptions.

 

If any of you that are still sitting there saying “nope, we have to have a number two receiver put up big numbers” are the same people yelling at Andy Reid to “just run the damn ball!” then you really need to check your basic math because the numbers involved in those two statements just don’t add up.

 

I understand that KC will benefit if one of those guys can become a reliable deep threat that can open up the middle of the field. I understand that these other wideouts have to develop so that if Maclin misses time the KC offense can still be successful. That doesn’t change the fact that if KC is going to be a team that plays good defense, runs the ball, and uses Maclin, Kelce, and their running backs the same as they previously have there just aren’t enough passes to go around for a number two wide receiver to be prolific in this offense.

 

So there you have it, Addicts. I know some of you will argue with me until you’re blue in the face about this, but if you want me to take your argument seriously you have to do one of two things. If you think KC will have more receptions than this tell me if that’s because the defense is going to be noticeably worse or because they are going to run the ball a lot less. Otherwise, your only argument for a number two wideout producing more has to be that somebody else is going to have significantly less receptions than I’ve predicted.

 

If you can’t account for one of those two things in your argument and it’s just “You’re dumb if you don’t think KC needs bigger numbers from their second wide receiver” then sorry, I got nothing for you. If you do have a solid argument for why I’m wrong I look forward to reading it in the comments below.

 

As always, thanks for reading and GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!

 

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2016/06/13/why-the-kansas-city-chiefs-dont-need-a-prolific-number-two-wide-receiver/2/

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