Calichief 3,016 Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Foles had some wide open opportunities as it was clear that 1. The Colts suck 2. They didn't gameplan for bombs, at all. I think Foles does put it a deep pass element that's been lacking, but he'll also rocket a pass well over the targets head on a short target...which will still be the bread and butter of the Offense. The Chiefs suddenly aren't going to morph into an Air Coryell offense. The actual truth is somewhere between Phata whiteknighting for Alex and others lusting for Foles because dink and dunk has grown tiring on them. Foles will have his good short stint to rehab his image and keep the boat upright, which he should do. He's not going to be the starter. As I've said 100 times is less about the dink and dunk and more about the defense having no respect for down the field ability. You have to be willing to push it during a game to make the defense respect it. Alex, in the last two games, has been willing to do so. It has to be there to win in the playoffs. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 As I've said 100 times is less about the dink and dunk and more about the defense having no respect for down the field ability. You have to be willing to push it during a game to make the defense respect it. Alex, in the last two games, has been willing to do so. It has to be there to win in the playoffs. Period. That's something I've said over and over, but you have to be able to connect on some of those deep attempts. Alex is below average in that regard, but seems to at least be getting a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefmanzada 466 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 With our defense and offensive weapons, Foles can win games just as Smith can, but I don't trust him in the Superbowl. I'd rather see Smith at the helm in the championships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Hill is changing the way defenses must gameplan KC. I like both QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gochiefsgo 380 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2672968-is-nick-foles-the-best-option-at-qb-for-the-surging-kansas-city-chiefs Good breakdown on Foles vs Alex Smith. I'm not saying Foles should replace AS but it would be great if the Chiefs can keep this guy for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gochiefsgo 380 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Wouldn't it be something if this season plays out just like the last time the Chiefs won the SB in 69? You had Mike Livingston come in for Lenny the cool and win a five games. They had to go on the road to beat the Division leading Raiders in the AFC championship game and faced a Vikings team with a killer Defense in the Super Bowl where the head coach Hank Stram who had lost a Super Bowl before out foxed the Vikings and won. It's possible that there might be some weird parallels here for how this season is looking so far with who is currently winning in the NFC and the Raiders being in first place etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoStud 3,253 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The Chiefs offense looked much more dynamic with Foles in at QB. I really liked Smith at Utah, I was a fan when he was with SF, I thought it was a good acquisition for KC years back... It's clear to me now, and really since last season, that Smith does not see the field, he will never be comfortable attacking deep, and he doesn't utilize weapons in the passing game. In the end he will always hold them back. Harbaugh understood this, I am guessing Reid either does or is starting to as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That's something I've said over and over, but you have to be able to connect on some of those deep attempts. Alex is below average in that regard, but seems to at least be getting a little better. My take would be that Alex looked better this season because he has more weapons and a better line in front of him. The first year here, he won ten games with Bowe and ?????????? Same the next year when he won nine. Last year, Maclin improved the offense but it was still Kelce and Maclin and not much else. Now Conley is getting into the mix and Hill is a constant deep threat. Blame Smith of dink and dunk if you must, but at least take into account the supporting cast. Foles will probably connect on more deep throws or at least attempt them. The real question is whether he will win more games. Related question: If Foles were in this situation last year, would he have completed that first deep pass to Hill for 49 yds.? Of course not, because the Chiefs didn't have Hill then. The point being, the QB play reflects the weapons he has available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My take would be that Alex looked better this season because he has more weapons and a better line in front of him. The first year here, he won ten games with Bowe and ?????????? Same the next year when he won nine. Last year, Maclin improved the offense but it was still Kelce and Maclin and not much else. Now Conley is getting into the mix and Hill is a constant deep threat. Blame Smith of dink and dunk if you must, but at least take into account the supporting cast. Foles will probably connect on more deep throws or at least attempt them. The real question is whether he will win more games. Related question: If Foles were in this situation last year, would he have completed that first deep pass to Hill for 49 yds.? Of course not, because the Chiefs didn't have Hill then. The point being, the QB play reflects the weapons he has available. I think you are a great poster. I have seen you be critical of Smith before and I think you are just being fair with your posts. I think you are reasonable without being an apologist. We all hope for the best, whether that is Foles or Smith. We just want our team to win. I don't see very many generalities made by you like on other boards. I even see generalities made against Foles, not just Smith. I hope my props were not too awkward. Just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think you are a great poster. I have seen you be critical of Smith before and I think you are just being fair with your posts. I think you are reasonable without being an apologist. We all hope for the best, whether that is Foles or Smith. We just want our team to win. I don't see very many generalities made by you like on other boards. I even see generalities made against Foles, not just Smith. I hope my props were not too awkward. Just right. Thanks. I've been a Chiefs fan ever since they moved to KC and a season ticket holder for many years. Winning is a lot more fun than losing even if the game has no impact on the playoffs. It's hard to understand how some get so wrapped up in love Smith-hate Smith when winning is the bottom line. No one here will prove that Foles is more likely to beat NE in a playoff game than Smith or the other way around. We have to trust the staff to do their best to win. Their jobs depend on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 The Chiefs offense looked much more dynamic with Foles in at QB. I really liked Smith at Utah, I was a fan when he was with SF, I thought it was a good acquisition for KC years back... It's clear to me now, and really since last season, that Smith does not see the field, he will never be comfortable attacking deep, and he doesn't utilize weapons in the passing game. In the end he will always hold them back. Harbaugh understood this, I am guessing Reid either does or is starting to as well. Yep Limited It's not an attack it's just fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Smith showed you in New England and plenty of other games what he has. When good defenses take away the short stuff, it's over. Foles makes all the throws. Alex is the starter for now. If you watched with open eyes, you saw the diffference. I love having Foles, but I think that Smith has been better for a few reasons. 1) Avoiding turnovers, which helps our defense and time of possession 2) Scrambling ability, which sustains drives and had much to do with winning 11 straight games last year. 2) Overall decision making, playbook knowledge, and brain processing speed. It is likely that Foles has a better deep ball, and maybe that is preferable now, since we have two deep threat guys who can stretch the defense out. But the short to intermediate passing game is extremely effective when executed right and wins a lot more games than it loses., especially with Smith's abilities to scramble and prevent turnovers. I am not aware of any special ability that Foles has with turning a busted play into a first down with his feet. I think Alex is best for winning a Super Bowl. But its beautiful to have a guy like Foles this year as a backup. It would be great to be able to keep both for next year, also. It really overwhelms opponents who have prepared all week for Smith's game and played half of a game like that suddenly have to shift gears and stop the deep game all of a sudden when Foles has to come in. That, alone, gives Reid a new strategic move at his disposal when our short game is being neutralized. When that happens, it would be best to bring in Foles rather than try to have Smith start throwing deep more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 I love having Foles, but I think that Smith has been better for a few reasons. 1) Avoiding turnovers, which helps our defense and time of possession 2) Scrambling ability, which sustains drives and had much to do with winning 11 straight games last year. 2) Overall decision making, playbook knowledge, and brain processing speed. It is likely that Foles has a better deep ball, and maybe that is preferable now, since we have two deep threat guys who can stretch the defense out. But the short to intermediate passing game is extremely effective when executed right and wins a lot more games than it loses., especially with Smith's abilities to scramble and prevent turnovers. I am not aware of any special ability that Foles has with turning a busted play into a first down with his feet. I think Alex is best for winning a Super Bowl. But its beautiful to have a guy like Foles this year as a backup. It would be great to be able to keep both for next year, also. It really overwhelms opponents who have prepared all week for Smith's game and played half of a game like that suddenly have to shift gears and stop the deep game all of a sudden when Foles has to come in. That, alone, gives Reid a new strategic move at his disposal when our short game is being neutralized. When that happens, it would be best to bring in Foles rather than try to have Smith start throwing deep more often. If Alex continues to push the ball, I agree. I have yet to see him do it regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Let me say I don't hate Smith and I don't love Foles. Statements like this are childish. As a Chiefs fan for a billion and a half years I reserve the right to like one QB over another on our roster. If you can throw the deep ball it's a lot easier to learn to dink & dunk. If can't throw the deep ball accurately after 11 or 12 years in the league, it's not happening. Let's say you're a D coordinator for an opponent. With Smith, keep everything in front and you'll contain, ask Billicheat. If you're entire passing attack is limited to 10-15 yards it's much easier to defend the run as well. Everybody can play up knowing they won't throw over you. Now consider that you have to protect against Hill or DAT flying down the sideline. Or Kelce on a deep seam. But you still have to protect against the screen to Ware or a slant to Maclin. And of course, the running game. Wouldn't it be much more difficult if a team had to be really concerned about the top being blown off the top of their defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Let me say I don't hate Smith and I don't love Foles. Statements like this are childish. As a Chiefs fan for a billion and a half years I reserve the right to like one QB over another on our roster. If you can throw the deep ball it's a lot easier to learn to dink & dunk. If can't throw the deep ball accurately after 11 or 12 years in the league, it's not happening. Let's say you're a D coordinator for an opponent. With Smith, keep everything in front and you'll contain, ask Billicheat. If you're entire passing attack is limited to 10-15 yards it's much easier to defend the run as well. Everybody can play up knowing they won't throw over you. Now consider that you have to protect against Hill or DAT flying down the sideline. Or Kelce on a deep seam. But you still have to protect against the screen to Ware or a slant to Maclin. And of course, the running game. Wouldn't it be much more difficult if a team had to be really concerned about the top being blown off the top of their defense? This offense is limited with all these weapons if Alex does his usual one read and dunk. If he pushes it like he did in New Orleans it's one thing, but he's proven over a career, he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Let me say I don't hate Smith and I don't love Foles. Statements like this are childish. As a Chiefs fan for a billion and a half years I reserve the right to like one QB over another on our roster. If you can throw the deep ball it's a lot easier to learn to dink & dunk. If can't throw the deep ball accurately after 11 or 12 years in the league, it's not happening. Let's say you're a D coordinator for an opponent. With Smith, keep everything in front and you'll contain, ask Billicheat. If you're entire passing attack is limited to 10-15 yards it's much easier to defend the run as well. Everybody can play up knowing they won't throw over you. Now consider that you have to protect against Hill or DAT flying down the sideline. Or Kelce on a deep seam. But you still have to protect against the screen to Ware or a slant to Maclin. And of course, the running game. Wouldn't it be much more difficult if a team had to be really concerned about the top being blown off the top of their defense? I'm not talking about quarterbacks, but when we talk about an offense that has a lot of short intermediate passes (WCO), if it were so easy just to keep everything in front of you and contain, we wouldn't win very many games. I understand we have good to great running backs, but if everyone can stack the box, that should make it harder for short intermediate passes and harder for the runningbacks. It should also make it easier for the day pass and therefore, we want of course one quarterback who does both often without high risk (and has mobility). But the better the quarterback is at deep passes, the harder the deep passes will be because the defense will not be ignoring them. Smith was finally taking advantage of defenses moving forward. I do think the pass to Maclin on the left sideline was pretty good if not for a good defensive play. The actual touchdown pass to Maclin was also made and part due to the defense thinking we were going to pass behind a line of scrimmage or something. So teams either still defend the deeper passes allowing our short stuff or are wholly ineffective at defending the short stuff even when they know it is coming. That would be a reason to keep throwing short intermediate passes if they can't or won't stop them and you are winning and protecting the ball and winning the time of possession. The strategy has been proven to work and I think we would've had a better chance even against Belicheat if we didn't turn the ball over. The margin of error is small, but if we can avoid that, we have as much chance as other teams due to our defense and smart quarterbacks. I am all for adding a quarterback who does that and has a better deep ball and is younger and has mobility. It will be hard to impossible to get that quarterback without trading up while we are trying to maximize our current window. I'll go with Andy Reid on Smith versus Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'll go with Andy Reid on Smith versus Foles. Really? What a surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Really? What a surprise! There are a lot of people here would assume that it would be Smith for me no matter what. I do support Smith and feel that he can get us where we want to go, and that is contrary to a lot of people here, but I just want our team to win and I will defer to Reid on this. I especially wanted Smith to do well and to win here because the fastest way to success would be for the current people to play out of their minds and win it all. When Murray and Bray were here I realized that getting them playing time would be best for them and if they succeeded, it would be long term. But I didn't want all that per se unless they were ready now. Given that Murray and Hogan are not on the team and Bray is third string, it was clear that they were not ready. I want us to win now every game I am going forward. It would have to be Smith or Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsy 1,137 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I would go with Foles. I think Andy can teach him to dink and dunk, but it's obvious that Andy can not get Alex to go deep and stretch the field. Why have all the weapons we have, if you're not going to utilize them??????? That's like having a Porsche, and never driving faster than 55 mph!!! Smith is a lot more cerebral, and he is more accurate 10-15 yds down the field, but AS11 has proven that he won't throw the ball if his guys are covered, and he refuses to stay in the pocket and allow the deep routes to open up. When he does go deep, it's very often an under/over throw. Andy can teach Foles to dink and dunk, if that's what he wants. But Foles has the balls and Arm talent to go deep too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 If Alex continues to push the ball, I agree. I have yet to see him do it regularly. Haven't seen Foles regularly either. Any QB coming into a game has an advantage over the starter, simply because the other team has spent all week game planning for the other QB and playing half the game against the other QB. I am pretty sure what we would find with Foles as starter is that teams will have planned and learn how to defense him all week, and he would be less consistent. Then Alex would come in and suddenly look like the savior. Teams that switch back and forth, like SF did with Smith and Kaepernick end up losing out in the end, because they get fooled by that simple dynamic. Fans, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSLC2008 606 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I would go with Foles. I think Andy can teach him to dink and dunk, but it's obvious that Andy can not get Alex to go deep and stretch the field. Why have all the weapons we have, if you're not going to utilize them??????? That's like having a Porsche, and never driving faster than 55 mph!!! Smith is a lot more cerebral, and he is more accurate 10-15 yds down the field, but AS11 has proven that he won't throw the ball if his guys are covered, and he refuses to stay in the pocket and allow the deep routes to open up. When he does go deep, it's very often an under/over throw. Andy can teach Foles to dink and dunk, if that's what he wants. But Foles has the balls and Arm talent to go deep too. Smith will do that with Hill and Maclin and maybe Conley but it's not very often. I will assume that for Foles due to his previous games in his career, but a few of the deeper attempts in this last game were wide open. One of which was just like the one Smith had against New Orleans. It's not often enough, but the absolutes don't work. He has thrown deep and he has connected. And he has had the balls to throw passes in tight windows that have a higher chance of being intercepted then some of the passes that he has passed on. He of course doesn't do it often, misses receivers, and will prefer an overthrow versus a risky pass. Some of his overthrows, I think are not him mistaking the depth of the throw but being conservative with it. That is a problem in itself, but it isn't him just not being able to throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilyous2 884 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I would go with Foles. I think Andy can teach him to dink and dunk, but it's obvious that Andy can not get Alex to go deep and stretch the field. Why have all the weapons we have, if you're not going to utilize them??????? That's like having a Porsche, and never driving faster than 55 mph!!! Smith is a lot more cerebral, and he is more accurate 10-15 yds down the field, but AS11 has proven that he won't throw the ball if his guys are covered, and he refuses to stay in the pocket and allow the deep routes to open up. When he does go deep, it's very often an under/over throw. Andy can teach Foles to dink and dunk, if that's what he wants. But Foles has the balls and Arm talent to go deep too. Good points, but there is no guarantee that Foles can dink and dunk as well as Alex can, because decisions have to come a lot faster. We would lose that scrambling ability to some extent, also. Andy will probably go with Foles next week but will not say so until game time and probably play up that Smith is the likely starting, simply to gain that advantage of uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiechief1 425 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I seen an article a bit ago from the head trainer where he said Alex wasn't concussed at all during the game. He said Alex passed both concussion tests and now they are starting the return to play protocol and that he could possibly practice on wed and play on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Foles will struggle because his mechanics are never consistent. If you have 2 athletes like DeSean Jackson and Maclin in their prime, an effective Riley Cooper and a well-designed Chip Kelly offense that will give you very easy throwing options, yeah he could work. The shit Colts secondary gave Foles some very easy throws. His launch point is allover the place and it has been for all 5 years of his career. You're not going to easily just fix that now and it's largely why he's too inconsistent. Alexs flaws in his throwing motion is due to his lower body and not being fluid in his motion. He stiffens up and he loses his power in throws, in result. Not a good thing but he's consistent otherwise. Andy wants consistency, which he gets more out of Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefensiveMan 758 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks. I've been a Chiefs fan ever since they moved to KC and a season ticket holder for many years. Winning is a lot more fun than losing even if the game has no impact on the playoffs. It's hard to understand how some get so wrapped up in love Smith-hate Smith when winning is the bottom line. No one here will prove that Foles is more likely to beat NE in a playoff game than Smith or the other way around. We have to trust the staff to do their best to win. Their jobs depend on it. So what you're saying is the Chiefs will go into NE and win the Lamar Hunt Trophy and represent the AFC in the Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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