Going on Record

[PhataLerror 370]

This is the place for you to go on record for what you believe in. This is no place for hedging, no place for beating around the bush. John Dorsey has managed the cap well, the pieces are in place, the Chiefs' Super Bowl window is wide open, and there's no reason to believe that this is the only year the Chiefs can compete for a deep run in the playoffs and even a Super Bowl appearance. There's no room for dithering about "this year".

 

You believe that Nick Foles has a better ceiling, a better deep ball, and a better potential than Alex Smith will ever have

 

-or-

 

You believe that Alex Smith has demonstrated consistency, growth, versatility, leadership, and pretty much every intangible there is.

 

Don't couch your opinions in clever words. Come right out and say what you mean. Get it off your chest. And then we'll all watch together as the league, staffs, and players sort the mess out.

[DefensiveMan 758]

Alex Smith, is the man for now. It's his team - he has the leadership, he's a proven winner (even in the playoffs). Give the guy time to shine under a solidified O-Line and a plethora of lethal weapons at his disposal.

Wouldn't be fair to pull another Kap here with Foles. I'm glad we have Foles by all means, but let's not jump on the bandwagon if he throws for 3 TD's and 300+ at home against the Jags. Would you swap 50 yd bombs for INTs? I wouldn't at this point. The team is catered already to a clock managing, smart QB in Smith.

Smith, has a feisty competitiveness in him that I like. He doesnt back down against big name QBs. With all that being said we need to win the AFC West first then make our playoff run.

[SEMO 6,811]

Smith is the starter.

[jetlord 10,209]

Smith gives the Chiefs the best chance to win at this time.  If the Chiefs can somehow keep Foles through next year, then it's an open competition for 2018.  If Foles gets a game or so while Smith recovers and Foles shows well, he will be signed big time by another team that needs an immediate starter.  The Chiefs thrive when there's long drives and few turnovers.  The long pass will happen with Smith this season, just not often enough to satisfy the Smith haters.  The best chance to win this year is with Smith.

[azchief21 5,278]

I'd like to see what Foles can do with these weapons. Already seen what Alex does. Foles may flop, who knows. Smith hasn't set the world on fire in 4+ years.  As long as defense plays lights out either one should be fine. Still believe this franchise needs to go get a franchise QB in the draft, whatever it takes. Said it a million times, tired of QBs that other teams didn't think were good enough. Is that on record enough?

[azchief21 5,278]

Also on the record just because I think Alex has been and always will be an average QB. Doesn't mean I hate him. He's a good guy. With guys like Brett Favre and Pete Carroll you can call me a hater. I never "hate" Chiefs players, I just seem to believe some are better than others. 

[jetlord 10,209]

I'd like to see what Foles can do with these weapons. Already seen what Alex does. Foles may flop, who knows. Smith hasn't set the world on fire in 4+ years.  As long as defense plays lights out either one should be fine. Still believe this franchise needs to go get a franchise QB in the draft, whatever it takes. Said it a million times, tired of QBs that other teams didn't think were good enough. Is that on record enough?

Not disagreeing, but curious.  How do the Chiefs get that franchise QB in the draft?  They won't be picking in the top twenty and even the QBs taken in the top ten have a massive fail rate.  Sure, there's QB taken in the second and later rounds that become great, but it's a crap shoot.  The Chiefs got Murray, Croyle, Hogan, and probably others that don't come to mind immediately and none are still here.  The Chiefs are geared to winning now and shouldn't trade away the franchise to get the top QB in the draft.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Not disagreeing, but curious. How do the Chiefs get that franchise QB in the draft? They won't be picking in the top twenty and even the QBs taken in the top ten have a massive fail rate. Sure, there's QB taken in the second and later rounds that become great, but it's a crap shoot. The Chiefs got Murray, Croyle, Hogan, and probably others that don't come to mind immediately and none are still here. The Chiefs are geared to winning now and shouldn't trade away the franchise to get the top QB in the draft.

If there is a can't miss QB (in Dorsey's opinion) that the top picking teams don't want (unlikely), I could see a trade up if the guy us NFL ready (Smith or Foles wouldn't stay), the roster is completish with depth, standard number of picks to trade, cost of rookie QB being low relatively, etc. Those are not likely so with a standard low pick, we'd need the rest of the team to make up for rookie learning curves or sit while Smith or Foles plays.

[azchief21 5,278]

Not disagreeing, but curious.  How do the Chiefs get that franchise QB in the draft?  They won't be picking in the top twenty and even the QBs taken in the top ten have a massive fail rate.  Sure, there's QB taken in the second and later rounds that become great, but it's a crap shoot.  The Chiefs got Murray, Croyle, Hogan, and probably others that don't come to mind immediately and none are still here.  The Chiefs are geared to winning now and shouldn't trade away the franchise to get the top QB in the draft.

Jet you've been a Chiefs fan longer than I, my friend, but we've had great defenses, great olines, one of the greatest TEs ever, great secondaries, etc but always average QBs. No Super Bowls. I've said it many times, we've got to at least attempt to move up and take a franchise QB. Of course they aren't available every year but don't you think there has been one since Len Dawson hung them up? My point is it has to be an organizational mandate. Of  course these coaches we get every 3,4,5 years want to win now so they go out and get the best available QBs. But they aren't even the best on their previous  team. Why do we always settle? Then we talk up these QBs for 2 or 3 years then realize why they were available in the first place then start over again with some savior coach and QB combo. We get Cassel, Grbac, Bono, Smith and draft a QB in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds and they will be groomed behind the current journeyman QB of the day. Make a plan. Be determined with a 2, 3 year plan. This one is on Hunt. Every new coach will want to win now with with Kreig, Deberg and on and on. Having said that I'll cheer for Smith to help us win a Super Bowl because he's here now. I'm a Chiefs fan first. Go Chiefs!!!

[Okiechief1 425]

I think you can find a potential franchise QB without having to be in the top half of the draft. Carr and Dalton were 2nd rounders, Wilson was a 3rd rounder and Prescott was 4th rounder. Will admit to early to tell about Prescott though.

 

I would stick with Smith for a couple reasons. I don't think you get any more wins with Foles than you do with Smith you just would get them in a different way. I also don't think they invest a first or second round pick on potential QB if Foles is their guy cause they won't see a need to. I also think Smith would be a really good mentor for a couple years as well.

 

If the reports are true they were at least looking at life past Smith when it was reported they wanted to draft Lynch.

[jetlord 10,209]

We never know where the next top QB is going to come from.  Green Bay got Farve via trade.  Cleveland has drafted several and never hit gold.  Same with the Jets and Rams.  Maybe PHL struck gold, time will tell, but I don't see the Rams emerging from their losing ways soon.  To be honest, I'm not willing to see the Chiefs go through another 2-14 season just to get a QB that will take another three seasons to become, hopefully, the QBOTF.  I'm not willing to see the Chiefs trade their future to get that pick.  MINN traded their draft to get Walker years ago and the only winner in that deal was Dallas.  Maybe if a Luck, Elway, Manning was on the board and the Chiefs were definitely not current contenders, then the move might be made.  That's not what's likely to happen.  How would you feel if the Chiefs trade up, lost some very good players, and ended up with RG3?  Manzell?  Gino?  

[azchief21 5,278]

Great dicussion. Sometimes you guys make so much sense and then I realize we haven't won a Super Bowl since 1970. Aside from once in a generation defenses, 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 15 Bears it pretty much takes an elite QB to win it all. Now if Houston comes back healthy and Ford continues to improve maybe we can take that route. I'll take. Trent Dilfer has a ring.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Jet you've been a Chiefs fan longer than I, my friend, but we've had great defenses, great olines, one of the greatest TEs ever, great secondaries, etc but always average QBs. No Super Bowls. I've said it many times, we've got to at least attempt to move up and take a franchise QB. Of course they aren't available every year but don't you think there has been one since Len Dawson hung them up? My point is it has to be an organizational mandate. Of course these coaches we get every 3,4,5 years want to win now so they go out and get the best available QBs. But they aren't even the best on their previous team. Why do we always settle? Then we talk up these QBs for 2 or 3 years then realize why they were available in the first place then start over again with some savior coach and QB combo. We get Cassel, Grbac, Bono, Smith and draft a QB in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds and they will be groomed behind the current journeyman QB of the day. Make a plan. Be determined with a 2, 3 year plan. This one is on Hunt. Every new coach will want to win now with with Kreig, Deberg and on and on. Having said that I'll cheer for Smith to help us win a Super Bowl because he's here now. I'm a Chiefs fan first. Go Chiefs!!!

I agree mostly. I don't agree with Smith not being the best quarterback on his previous team. Kaepernick may have had more potential, was the one they chose, and could do better than he did with a better coach since, but I think a lot of his success was because he had a new system defenses weren't ready for and he had nothing to lose so he was taking every risk. Once people figured him out and he was the guy, he was more conservative and people figured him out before Harbaugh left.

 

Smith's better play started 5-6 games before Harbaugh came, but good coaching pushed him and the team. Smith was winning as the highest rated QB at the time (not saying the best, of course, just saying where it was) he was replaced and had the true hot hand.

[KCSLC2008 606]

I think the results of this poll would be much different if people were asking about drafting a quarterback soon and possibly doing it early. But as it stands, going with the quarterback that has been here for a while and has built some chemistry, has had deeper attempts this year than before, and had all the reps this off-season, and is winning, is probably the best way to go in our window.

 

Have the whole team play well and with who we have and that might get to Foles at some point. And then give the next guy a loaded team with continuity at coaching.

[azchief21 5,278]

Looks like I'm on the short end of this poll. I agree that it's probably better to keep Smith for continuity at this point. Maybe Reid will let Smith rest this week and I can get to see Foles in a complete game running with the ones. Keep voting though, I want to see what it feels like to be 1 percenter.

[jetlord 10,209]

It might be worthwhile to see Foles play this weekend just to see what he brings.  Assuming the Chiefs beat the Jags, Foles could use the work.  But still it seems that Smith gives the Chiefs the best chance to win and after this game, the schedule gets tougher.  It's the wrong time to switch QBs except for the Jags.

[Calichief 3,016]

Looks like I'm on the short end of this poll. I agree that it's probably better to keep Smith for continuity at this point. Maybe Reid will let Smith rest this week and I can get to see Foles in a complete game running with the ones. Keep voting though, I want to see what it feels like to be 1 percenter.

I'm with you buddy.

[kcxiv 35]

  I'd still go with Foles. Yes, alex wont fuck it up, but he also will not take a game over with his arm. Chances are little to none that it happens.    A QB like alex's only chance to win big in the play offs is for his defense to be perfect.    Thats the hardest possible way to win a Super Bowl.  We have been down this road so much and it has never ended well for the Chiefs.  foles looked pretty good made some damned nice throws in the game. I would love to see more of what he can do in Andy's offense.  I know what alex can do.

[KCSLC2008 606]

This is a good article to read. It's against bad defenses, but it shows that we went deep just as often percentage-wise of pass attempts with Smith as with Foles in the past few games since the bye. It also says that Smith is completing those deep passes as often as most quarterbacks do. It even says the percentage of deep attempts since the bye is at an aggressive rate. Foles is better deep in my and most opinions, but the one game percentages isn't sustainable.

 

Then, it talks about Adjusted Y/A and how Smith is 13 of 33 quarterbacks since 2014. Foles is 33/33 but that was with Fisher as coach. Smith's exceptional 2012 is not in there and neither is Foles 2013.

 

It also talks about how Smith targeted Kelce more than Foles did.

 

It's just one game for Foles so they could go up or down either way. If Smith is out, we would get a better sample size this week.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2016/11/2/13476846/six-things-to-know-about-alex-smith-vs-nick-foles-and-the-qb-non

[PhataLerror 370]

A QB like alex's only chance to win big in the play offs is for his defense to be perfect.    Thats the hardest possible way to win a Super Bowl.

36-32 vs. Saints.

44-45 @ Indianapolis.

30-0 @ Houston.

 

It's like you sleep through Alex Smith's best performances.

 

And I'm not sure how you'd prove the "hardest possible way to win a Super Bowl" bit. A great many Super Bowl winning teams hold their opponents to well under their average offensive scoring on the season.

[Goldbrick 364]

36-32 vs. Saints.

44-45 @ Indianapolis.

30-0 @ Houston.

 

It's like you sleep through Alex Smith's best performances.

 

And I'm not sure how you'd prove the "hardest possible way to win a Super Bowl" bit. A great many Super Bowl winning teams hold their opponents to well under their average offensive scoring on the season.

 

It seems more like willful ignorance.

[KCSLC2008 606]

36-32 vs. Saints.

44-45 @ Indianapolis.

30-0 @ Houston.

 

It's like you sleep through Alex Smith's best performances.

 

And I'm not sure how you'd prove the "hardest possible way to win a Super Bowl" bit. A great many Super Bowl winning teams hold their opponents to well under their average offensive scoring on the season.

Some of the 44 points that we scored was helped by the defense and some of the offense hurt the defense, but needing to hold a team to 43 points with all that, still isn't what is considered perfect defense. I don't mind people making a few generalities, but talking about needing perfect is stupid.

 

We needed smart play calling on the last drive to get a field goal and instead got a would be sack. I don't think that it's a big deal about the intentional grounding because we only lost two more yards the sack would've been. He was going to be sacked 8 yards behind the line scrimmage and lose the down. Instead, it was 10 yards and lose the down.

 

I do think we should have been able to throw it in the direction of one of our players past the line of scrimmage. So many people screamed about the loss of down, though. A sack loses that too. A throw away loses the down, too.

[artsy 1,137]

I voted foles. Andy can coach foles to throw underneath and checkdown to play it "safe." But, Foles' deep ball aggressiveness is something Smith cant/wont do.

I'll take foles ALLLLLL DAY!

[KCSLC2008 606]

Looks like I'm on the short end of this poll. I agree that it's probably better to keep Smith for continuity at this point. Maybe Reid will let Smith rest this week and I can get to see Foles in a complete game running with the ones. Keep voting though, I want to see what it feels like to be 1 percenter.

However you vote is legitimate, too. But I just wanted to note that those who vote the other way for Smith doesn't mean the other posters don't want to better quarterback. It doesn't mean they would not support drafting a quarterback, even early. It doesn't mean they don't want Smith to attack deep more. It just is talking about this year with an open mind for next year and beyond. (That could still include Nick Foles, just saying that the poll doesn't actually leave you alone.)

[KCSLC2008 606]

I voted foles. Andy can coach foles to throw underneath and checkdown to play it "safe." But, Foles' deep ball aggressiveness is something Smith cant/wont do.

I'll take foles ALLLLLL DAY!

Smith threw deep the same percentagewise as Foles at an aggressive rate since the bye with about the same connection percentagewise as most QBs. You might note the opponents, but that was the same for this game. Will be the same for this next game.

 

Having said that, I do understand that Foles threw deeper in his career before.

 

Then, it talks about Adjusted Y/A and how Smith is 13 of 33 quarterbacks since 2014. Foles is 33/33 but that was with Fisher as coach. Smith's exceptional 2012 is not in there and neither is Foles 2013.

 

It's just one game for Foles so they could go up or down either way. If Smith is out, we would get a better sample size this week.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2016/11/2/13476846/six-things-to-know-about-alex-smith-vs-nick-foles-and-the-qb-non