Arrowhead attendance

[andysredflag 7]

I'm curious if anyone has any opinions on why the Chiefs have struggled with attendance/demand for tickets at Arrowhead. In prior years with comparable teams--the 2003 and 2005 Chiefs, for example--it was incredibly difficult to get seats at face value or anywhere close. Lowers would go for twice the rate they're going for this year. 

 

The Chiefs have the most affordable tickets in the league, and easily have the most affordable tickets of all playoff caliber teams. And yet, as of this posting, there are currently 10,560 tickets available at Stubhub for the Titans game. You can get seats for as low as $18.

 

No other team in the league has more than 6,500 tickets available for next Sunday.

• Lowest price: Bills-Browns (also as low as $18)
• Next lowest: Falcons-49ers ($35).

The numbers above are Stubhub only. Here is how many tickets are available for Chiefs-Titans via Ticketmaster: 

 

 

 

Add it up, and it's quite possible that close to 30% of tickets are for sale or unsold for next week's game. 

 

I understand the weather in KC is poor, but it's always been bad in December. I can think of countless examples, even in the first Herm season, where tickets were extremely difficult to come by in December. Also, fans in other cold weather cities aren't struggling to fill their stadium. I checked Ticketmaster at kickoff of today's Bills-Steelers game (30 degrees at kickoff with 90 percent chance of precipitation and 15 mph wind) and there were maybe a couple hundred seats available. This is despite the Bills having virtually no chance of making the playoffs. 

 

This year's Chiefs team is having arguably the most thrilling season in franchise history. The team is likable, there have been amazing finishes, comeback wins, and there are lots of exciting big-name players. The Chiefs are also well positioned to get a coveted first round bye. And yet ... you can currently get a Chiefs-Titans lower level seat at the 50 yard line for $100. 

 

In fairness, this game is wedged in between a pair of primetime games against division rivals (Raiders last week, Broncos next week), and there does appear to be strong demand for the Christmas game. But still, the lack of demand seems highly unusual for such a successful team in a city that is known for packing the stadium.

 

I have my own theories, but I'm curious to see if anyone here has any? 

[DefensiveMan 758]

I'm thinking we need to win a home playoff game and a SB for the fans to completely buy in. The Royals did it - It's the 'Show Me State' so that's my theory.

[andysredflag 7]

I'm thinking we need to win a home playoff game and a SB for the fans to completely buy in. The Royals did it - It's the 'Show Me State' so that's my theory.

 

In 2005, the Chiefs hadn't won a playoff game of any kind since 1993 and were coming off the most disappointing season in franchise history. The stadium was packed for the Chiefs-Jets season opener and every game thereafter had high demand. So, I'm not sure if I'm buying that argument.

 

Also, I'd argue that excitement for this year's team is at its highest levels in at least a decade. The Chiefs have won 10+ games in back to back seasons for the first time in 20 years, they won a playoff game last year (before losing to the Patriots on the road, a forgivable loss), and are viewed by many as a legit Super Bowl contender. 

[SEMO 6,811]

People don't have the dough to shell out for the inflated ticket prices and parking fees like they did then.

[azchief21 5,278]

Huge, high def TVs, warm recliner, cheap beer and food, free parking at home

[andysredflag 7]

People don't have the dough to shell out for the inflated ticket prices and parking fees like they did then.

 

Tickets are higher priced elsewhere and are selling higher capacity at higher prices, even in small market cold weather cities such as Buffalo and Pittsburgh. I don't disagree that people are wanting to spend less, but there has never been a better opportunity to see a Chiefs team that's THIS good for such a low cost. 

 

As of this post, there are literally hundreds of upper level seats selling for $20 to $25 on Stubhub. A family of four could attend a Chiefs-Titans game for roughly the same price as a dinner at a nice restaurant or a trip to the movies (four movie tickets, four drinks and a couple of popcorns could easily push $100). 

[andysredflag 7]

Huge, high def TVs, warm recliner, cheap beer and food, free parking at home

 

Buffalo fans packed their stadium today to watch a non playoff team in poor weather, and have done the same in previous years. They haven't been to the playoffs since 1999. They have access to the same high def TVs, warm recliners, cheap beer and food, and free parking as Chiefs fans do. Their tickets cost more, and demand is presumably higher, even despite playing a terrible home schedule that has included games against the Jaguars, 49ers and next week ... the Browns. 

[SEMO 6,811]

I don't live in the KC area and can't speak specifics about why every seat doesn't have an ass in it. Logic would say what has already been said here. The expense of the live experience vs. the savings and comfort of watching it at home.

 

JMO

[SEMO 6,811]

Buffalo fans packed their stadium today to watch a non playoff team in poor weather, and have done the same in previous years. They haven't been to the playoffs since 1999. They have access to the same high def TVs, warm recliners, cheap beer and food, and free parking as Chiefs fans do. Their tickets cost more, and demand is presumably higher, even despite playing a terrible home schedule that has included games against the Jaguars, 49ers and next week ... the Browns.

It's Buffalo. What else do they have?

[andysredflag 7]

Just to illustrate, here are the available tickets via Ticketmaster to Buffalo's game against the winless Browns next week, a meaningless game that's likely to be played in 25 degree weather with wind on the heels of a week's worth of snowfall. 

 

[andysredflag 7]

It's Buffalo. What else do they have?

 

I don't disagree, but after spending a few days in KC this past weekend, I can't say it's much different there. 

[SEMO 6,811]

I just assumed that you worked for the Chiefs.

[jetlord 10,209]

The Titans aren't really an attraction compared to a lot of other teams, the weather is such that even with season tickets, there's a strong pull to just watch it at home, parking is still a hassle and too pricey, and it's easy to get better seats from ticket holders than to accept the cheap seats up in the wind.  Just my guesses.  A few years ago, my wife and I looked at each other about four hours before kickoff for a Dec. game and just decided to stay home and watch in front of the fire.  Even after having paid for the tickets, we didn't feel like going.  Sure, the Tenn. game is important to the Chiefs playoff seeding, but many of us just hate being cold for five hours.

[andysredflag 7]

The Titans aren't really an attraction compared to a lot of other teams, the weather is such that even with season tickets, there's a strong pull to just watch it at home, parking is still a hassle and too pricey, and it's easy to get better seats from ticket holders than to accept the cheap seats up in the wind.  Just my guesses.  A few years ago, my wife and I looked at each other about four hours before kickoff for a Dec. game and just decided to stay home and watch in front of the fire.  Even after having paid for the tickets, we didn't feel like going.  Sure, the Tenn. game is important to the Chiefs playoff seeding, but many of us just hate being cold for five hours.

 

If I had to guess, I think it's a combination of the following:

 

1. Lack of convenience. Arrowhead is inconvenient to get to, and parking...while improved in recent weeks...has been a hassle and has gotten bad publicity. Fans don't want to spend 3 hours at a football game and then another hour to get in and out. The cost to park also exceeds the cost of many tickets.

 

2. Still stung by previous regime. The Pioli era, I think, turned a lot of fans away. Say what you want about Carl Peterson, but he cared deeply about the fans, he walked around to tailgates before the games, and he was good at outreach. Pioli never cared about these things and restricted media access and fan access to levels never seen before. Even though it was only four years, it was mostly terrible football with two of the worst teams in Chiefs history, and it was boring game after boring game. Anybody who attended a Chiefs game between 2009 and 2012 probably had a miserable time, and the 2007 and 2008 seasons were bad too. After the excitement of the 90s and the Vermeil Era, the football and fan experience endured a bad, bad, bad stretch where ... if you attended a Chiefs game ... you probably didn't have much fun. Even the 2010 team, which made the playoffs, had a forgettable season. The schedule stunk, especially the home schedule: 49ers, Jaguars, Bills, Cardinals, Titans. And everyone knew the team was terribly flawed. 

 

3. Fan experience has worsened. Thursday night was the first Chiefs game I've attended that didn't have Rock & Roll Part II after touchdowns. And, I must say, it REALLY takes away from the gameday experience. Instead of a 150-second post TD party that takes you to the ensuing kickoff, it's 30 seconds of indifference followed by sitting on your ass until it's time to kickoff again. Further, there's minimal fan engagement during TV timeouts, the rock anthems that used to blare are few and far between (haven't heard much Black Betty, Hey Baby, Crazy Train, etc.) There seems to be more emphasis on the Tomahawk Chop nowadays, which is cool. But that's about it. 

 

4. Andy Reid / Alex Smith. I'm thrilled with Andy Reid, and I think he's one of the best coaches in NFL history. I also think Alex Smith is a competent QB who can lead the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. That said, there is a stigma attached to both of these guys. Andy can't manage the clock ... Andy can't win the big one ... Andy has a boring offensive system ... Alex is a checkdown king ... Alex is Trent Dilfer ... Alex is not good at QB ... etc. I think in the minds of the casual fan, the Chiefs play a boring style of football that isn't fun to watch, and there isn't an offensive star that you're dying to see live. 

 

5. Obvious factors. Schedule, weather, easier to watch at home, etc. I don't disagree with any of these, but plenty of teams are selling out their games consistently regardless of opponent, regardless of weather conditions, and the Chiefs have been near the top of the league in that regard as well -- and as recently as the mid 2000s. 

 

For what it's worth, it's not like attendance is terrible. The Chiefs are still drawing well and better than a vast majority of other teams. But given the success of the team (10+ wins in three of the last four years) and the upward trajectory, I expect more. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Attendance is down league wide, 30-40 bucks just to park your Hyundai and the team doesn't win with big glitzy exciting huge plays. They dink and dunk and barely hang on which doesn't mesh with the ADD crowd.

 

The Chiefs also lost out a lot with the younger generation because they sucked a lot for the better part of a decade.

 

The quality of play on the field has also declined with the practice changes in the last CBA.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

Buffalo fans packed their stadium today to watch a non playoff team in poor weather, and have done the same in previous years. They haven't been to the playoffs since 1999. They have access to the same high def TVs, warm recliners, cheap beer and food, and free parking as Chiefs fans do. Their tickets cost more, and demand is presumably higher, even despite playing a terrible home schedule that has included games against the Jaguars, 49ers and next week ... the Browns.

And what else is there to do in Buffalo? Not only that Midwesterners may be looked at as backwards and unknowing by the coasters but they are smart enough to know what to spend their money on.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Buffalo is the cheapest place to attend a game

[Okiechief1 425]

There was an article from last year that said attendance was down league wide. This year ratings have taken a dip as well.

 

Combo of a few things imo. Inconsistent officiating which gives the conspiracy theorists more talking points. Goodell is inconsistent with his punishment and then rule changes have not set well with people. Hand brushes across a QBs helmet its a penalty. Celebrate a TD to much its a TD. Try and define what a catch is now.

 

CTEs have had an effect as well. I know patents who won't let their kids play football. I have heard former players say the same thing. If they aren't letting their kids play Chances are they aren't watching as much or going to as many games. Aikman has said the game won't be around in 20 years because of it.

 

Cost is some of, more entertainment options as well.

 

As it relates specific to KC. All those reasons above plus I think the prior regime soured quite a few people and the fact some will say they have seen this play out in the 90s. So until they do something of note in the post season, those people will stay away.

 

Don't think it's any one thing just a combo of several things.

[oldtimer 8,686]

If I had to guess, I think it's a combination of the following:

 

1. Lack of convenience. Arrowhead is inconvenient to get to, and parking...while improved in recent weeks...has been a hassle and has gotten bad publicity. Fans don't want to spend 3 hours at a football game and then another hour to get in and out. The cost to park also exceeds the cost of many tickets.

 

2. Still stung by previous regime. The Pioli era, I think, turned a lot of fans away. Say what you want about Carl Peterson, but he cared deeply about the fans, he walked around to tailgates before the games, and he was good at outreach. Pioli never cared about these things and restricted media access and fan access to levels never seen before. Even though it was only four years, it was mostly terrible football with two of the worst teams in Chiefs history, and it was boring game after boring game. Anybody who attended a Chiefs game between 2009 and 2012 probably had a miserable time, and the 2007 and 2008 seasons were bad too. After the excitement of the 90s and the Vermeil Era, the football and fan experience endured a bad, bad, bad stretch where ... if you attended a Chiefs game ... you probably didn't have much fun. Even the 2010 team, which made the playoffs, had a forgettable season. The schedule stunk, especially the home schedule: 49ers, Jaguars, Bills, Cardinals, Titans. And everyone knew the team was terribly flawed. 

 

3. Fan experience has worsened. Thursday night was the first Chiefs game I've attended that didn't have Rock & Roll Part II after touchdowns. And, I must say, it REALLY takes away from the gameday experience. Instead of a 150-second post TD party that takes you to the ensuing kickoff, it's 30 seconds of indifference followed by sitting on your ass until it's time to kickoff again. Further, there's minimal fan engagement during TV timeouts, the rock anthems that used to blare are few and far between (haven't heard much Black Betty, Hey Baby, Crazy Train, etc.) There seems to be more emphasis on the Tomahawk Chop nowadays, which is cool. But that's about it. 

 

4. Andy Reid / Alex Smith. I'm thrilled with Andy Reid, and I think he's one of the best coaches in NFL history. I also think Alex Smith is a competent QB who can lead the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. That said, there is a stigma attached to both of these guys. Andy can't manage the clock ... Andy can't win the big one ... Andy has a boring offensive system ... Alex is a checkdown king ... Alex is Trent Dilfer ... Alex is not good at QB ... etc. I think in the minds of the casual fan, the Chiefs play a boring style of football that isn't fun to watch, and there isn't an offensive star that you're dying to see live. 

 

5. Obvious factors. Schedule, weather, easier to watch at home, etc. I don't disagree with any of these, but plenty of teams are selling out their games consistently regardless of opponent, regardless of weather conditions, and the Chiefs have been near the top of the league in that regard as well -- and as recently as the mid 2000s. 

 

For what it's worth, it's not like attendance is terrible. The Chiefs are still drawing well and better than a vast majority of other teams. But given the success of the team (10+ wins in three of the last four years) and the upward trajectory, I expect more. 

 

I'm going to take issue with this.

 

 Arrowhead is not inconvenient. i'm not a veteran of other stadiums but no matter what side of Arrowhead stadium I have live in no way is it inconvenient.. I have to think you have an agenda with that position....work for 610 radio do you? WRONG!

 

 People have forgotten  about Pioli erra..yes ther are those who have been stung but thats because we have been fans for 40+ years..Pioli is just a faded memory .. Wrong again

 

 The R& R song has been removed from all stadiums  to the best of my recollection because Gary Glitter was a convicted pedifile and the royalties went to him.

 

 if you have been a veteran of  Chiefs games for any time you'd know that Arrowhead and the KC fan base thrive on Defense. Thats where a fan feels they personally can make a difference. Martyball  never set the world on fire so using the offense as an excuse is not viable.. Vermiels days  no matter how good the offense was never did get the crowd into what they once were or is now for that matter. 

 

 Will it ever be Comarohead  like it once was?? ..most likely no but I think dissing on the "Experience" is just BS and comes from a person is does not nor has experienced  Arrowhead  on a weekly basis.. OBTW we had season tickets for 43 years

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Arrowhead is certainly inconvenient. 

 

Traffic is always shit entering and exiting the stadium.  Not the worst situation, but certainly very lacking.

[andysredflag 7]

I'm going to take issue with this.

 

 Arrowhead is not inconvenient. i'm not a veteran of other stadiums but no matter what side of Arrowhead stadium I have live in no way is it inconvenient.. I have to think you have an agenda with that position....work for 610 radio do you? WRONG!

 

 People have forgotten  about Pioli erra..yes ther are those who have been stung but thats because we have been fans for 40+ years..Pioli is just a faded memory .. Wrong again

 

 The R& R song has been removed from all stadiums  to the best of my recollection because Gary Glitter was a convicted pedifile and the royalties went to him.

 

 if you have been a veteran of  Chiefs games for any time you'd know that Arrowhead and the KC fan base thrive on Defense. Thats where a fan feels they personally can make a difference. Martyball  never set the world on fire so using the offense as an excuse is not viable.. Vermiels days  no matter how good the offense was never did get the crowd into what they once were or is now for that matter. 

 

 Will it ever be Comarohead  like it once was?? ..most likely no but I think dissing on the "Experience" is just BS and comes from a person is does not nor has experienced  Arrowhead  on a weekly basis.. OBTW we had season tickets for 43 years

 

I have no agenda here and don't work for 610 radio. Arrowhead Stadium is my favorite venue on earth, Kansas City is my favorite city, and I was a season ticket holder when I was fortunate enough to call the Midwest home. I care deeply about Arrowhead's reputation, the tradition and would like to see the stadium remain as one of the best NFL stadiums in the league. But: It has slipped in the last decade, and undeniably so, and I don't doubt that there are underlying reasons why. This thread was an effort to get feedback from those who have their own theories and to offer my own.

 

I personally have never found Arrowhead to be inconvenient. As someone who routinely gets lost in traffic, I've always preferred Arrowhead's present location to a proverbial downtown location. But many of my friends who live in KC -- particularly those on the opposite side of the Metro area -- have told me that Arrowhead is inconvenient, that the parking situation has been a nightmare, and that the gameday atmosphere has suffered in recent years, for a variety of reasons. 

 

I don't deny that people have mostly forgotten the Pioli era. But that doesn't mean they forgot the horrible experience they likely had at Arrowhead when attending games during those years. In the six years before Andy's arrival, the Chiefs went 15-33 at home, the worst home stretch in decades if not ever. They lost by double digits in NINETEEN of those 33 losses. That's a lot of bad football, and the games were so boring, so meaningless, the stadium so empty, that it was almost impossible to want to come back. 

 

I'm well aware of Rock & Roll Part II being removed at all stadiums. But that song meant more to Arrowhead than any other stadium and was a massive part of the gameday experience. And let's not pretend like Chiefs fans didn't care: There were petitions to keep the song at Arrowhead, and Chiefs ownership recognized these concerns. One year, they tried to use a cover version of R&R Pt II. Last year, they held a fan vote to decide the new TD song. 

 

I've been to plenty of Chiefs games through the years, and from a crowd standpoint, I'd put the Chiefs crowds of 2003 and 2005 up against any from the 1990s. I was not at the Dante Hall punt return TD game against the Broncos in 2003, but many who were say that was the loudest they've ever heard Arrowhead. I was at the '03 playoff game against the Colts, and never heard Arrowhead as loud as it was when Dante ran it back to pull within 38-31 (the Price Chopper cardboard posters that served as Thundersticks certainly helped). Reasonable people can disagree, of course. Loud is loud. 

 

I understand the Chiefs fanbase loves defense, and has loved defense. But the single biggest talking point since Vermeil left town is fan desire for a franchise QB and an offense that hums. The football in KC has been mostly boring, and contrary to what you might think, the Marty era offenses were actually quite good. The 90s Chiefs had seasons where they finished 6th, 10th, 7th, 8th, 5th, 8th and 9th in points scored and were top 10 in yards per game four times. Gunther's Chiefs finished 8th and 9th in points and 12th and 8th in yards. (It was actually Gunther's underachieving defense that led to his demise.) 

 

I know what Arrowhead was, and I know what it can be. 

 

Arrowhead has not been what it was, and it's not as good as it could be. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

As much as it was tradition, the Chiefs absolutely should not pay royalties to a child molester.

[andysredflag 7]

By the way, regarding Arrowhead's convenience, the opinion of some is certainly not the opinion of ALL, and I didn't mean to suggest that Arrowhead is inconvenient. On the whole, I'm guessing that more find it convenient than inconvenient. 

 

Here is a 2014 article from the Buffalo News, who compared Arrowhead to similarly old Ralph Wilson Stadium (the two were built one year apart):

 

For one thing, Arrowhead is conveniently located at the intersection of two interstates 15 minutes east of downtown Kansas City and with major suburbs in every other direction, whereas the Ralph is at the south end of the metro area and especially inconvenient for fans coming from Canada.

 

[...]

 

Arrowhead is part of the sprawling Harry S. Truman Sports Complex, at the intersection of two big highways - Interstates 70 and 435 - and with six entrances and vast parking lots in every direction. The complex’s accessibility is astounding by modern professional sports standards: For example, on a recent Wednesday night, it was possible to leave downtown Kansas City at 6:15 p.m., drive to the stadium complex, park, buy a ticket and a barbecue sandwich and a beer, and be in your seat to see a Royals game by 7 p.m.

 

“The Truman Sports Complex is one of the things that makes it different,” Donovan said. “Of course, the cost ramifications of a new building were considered – and $375 million is a lot more palatable than a billion plus.”

 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

There's a significant  difference between 15-25k people filing in to a Royals game and 70k+ rolling in and out for the Chiefs game.

 

They didn't make the exits to and from the stadium big enough for the Chiefs.

[andysredflag 7]

There's a significant  difference between 15-25k people filing in to a Royals game and 70k+ rolling in and out for the Chiefs game.

 

They didn't make the exits to and from the stadium big enough for the Chiefs.

 

Yeah, can't disagree there.