Something Has To Change

[KCSLC2008 606]

You can fuck off and go back to being a 49ers fan too. I hate all of you bandwagoners. And yes, franchises do listen to their fans. Maybe you weren't around for SOC. When fans boo the product, owners listen. And there will NEVER be a CONVERSATION between PhatalAssFucker and myself.

I wasn't, am not, and won't be a Niners fan. I went to USC so I wanted Cassel to work out, but he was a backup for the Trojans. My uncle introduced me to the Chiefs as he went to law school in Missouri. I went to Utah for a semester while Smith was there, but we all have different college allegiances. There's my bias, Chiefs and Utes, but we don't go back to our college teams, we keep our NFL team and college teams separate.

 

I've advocated for drafting a long term QB solution.

 

I just didn't think the responses were towards PhataLerror were responding to what he said. Didn't say fans couldn't pressure the organization. I do think that there are other places for that pressure other than boards like this, so Alexapologists on these boards aren't the reason, those who could be rallying at KC headquarters but aren't would be the problem. No one is going to rally to keep things the same.

[kccrow 529]

I wasn't, am not, and won't be a Niners fan. I went to USC so I wanted Cassel to work out, but he was a backup for the Trojans. My uncle introduced me to the Chiefs as he went to law school in Missouri. I went to Utah for a semester while Smith was there, but we all have different college allegiances. There's my bias, Chiefs and Utes, but we don't go back to our college teams, we keep our NFL team and college teams separate.

 

I've advocated for drafting a long term QB solution.

 

I just didn't think the responses were towards PhataLerror were responding to what he said. Didn't say fans couldn't pressure the organization. I do think that there are other places for that pressure other than boards like this, so Alexapologists on these boards aren't the reason, those who could be rallying at KC headquarters but aren't would be the problem. No one is going to rally to keep things the same.

 

Maybe I confused you with someone else, so my sincere apologies.

 

I have zero respect for Phatal and it spans two forums, so he can say whatever the hell he wants. I won't be paying attention. He just pretends he's not someone else on the other board. Similar to how Mugsy probably never disclosed that he was banned as BlackBob on another board, but he's finally been freed and is still awkward.

 

I have a very strong and negative view of Alex Smith, and to that point and with countless All-22 visuals to back me up, I retain that view. I will not waiver. At least Matt Cassel sucked and the team was bad around him, so it was more easily noticed. Alex Smith sucks with a great team around him, so they still win. Then you enter in the SF fans that have transcended upon Chiefs Kingdom to back their shit QB, it compounds the anger and frustrations of a fan base that has watched this same shit for 40+ years. Phatal doesn't seem to grasp that this group of people he spews his shit upon has watched this same utter fucking crap for generations. Of course, he had the opportunity to cheer on great teams behind great QBs like Joe Montana and Steve Young. He hasn't a clue what this fan base has been through. So don't waltz in here spewing bullshit takes on a terrible fucking player and expect us to put on our rose colored glasses and sing Kumbaya.

 

And if anyone thinks for a second that teams PR teams don't scan fan boards to get a pulse on how their fans feel about the team, they are sadly mistaken. It may take a greater act than just posting on a fan board to elicit complete change, but it is entirely possible for fans to be heard.

[Calichief 3,016]

Maybe I confused you with someone else, so my sincere apologies.

 

I have zero respect for Phatal and it spans two forums, so he can say whatever the hell he wants. I won't be paying attention. He just pretends he's not someone else on the other board. Similar to how Mugsy probably never disclosed that he was banned as BlackBob on another board, but he's finally been freed and is still awkward.

 

I have a very strong and negative view of Alex Smith, and to that point and with countless All-22 visuals to back me up, I retain that view. I will not waiver. At least Matt Cassel sucked and the team was bad around him, so it was more easily noticed. Alex Smith sucks with a great team around him, so they still win. Then you enter in the SF fans that have transcended upon Chiefs Kingdom to back their shit QB, it compounds the anger and frustrations of a fan base that has watched this same shit for 40+ years. Phatal doesn't seem to grasp that this group of people he spews his shit upon has watched this same utter fucking crap for generations. Of course, he had the opportunity to cheer on great teams behind great QBs like Joe Montana and Steve Young. He hasn't a clue what this fan base has been through. So don't waltz in here spewing bullshit takes on a terrible fucking player and expect us to put on our rose colored glasses and sing Kumbaya.

 

And if anyone thinks for a second that teams PR teams don't scan fan boards to get a pulse on how their fans feel about the team, they are sadly mistaken. It may take a greater act than just posting on a fan board to elicit complete change, but it is entirely possible for fans to be heard.

All facts.

[PhataLerror 370]

The plan is the draft. We've had at least 7 rounds per year for 47 years. Nothing. We've had 4 years since getting Smith. Nothing. Every year we say there is nothing in the draft or we can't move up or fill in the blank QB is better than we could get in the draft. Meanwhile other teams have been drafting QBs and going to the Super Bowl. I keep saying this isn't a "this year" problem. As a lifetime Chiefs fan, this is a lifetime problem. 

Which quarterback drafted during the past four years has a Super Bowl win? Which quarterback drafted during the past four years has even just a post-season win? There are only four quarterbacks drafted since 2013 that have played in the post-season during their NFL career, and then no more than once: Teddy Bridgewater, AJ McCarron, Dak Prescott, and Connor Cook. Not a single playoff win for any of them. Only Prescott's team scored more than 16 points. You may be right about the classes prior to 2013, but the quarterbacks coming out of college as of late have not been difference-makers.

 

The Chiefs are where they are because of past decisions. If one is going to revisit the Chiefs' decision to trade for Alex Smith back in 2013 and try to argue that the Chiefs should have gone after someone else, I have to ask: Who? Or were Bridgewater, AJ McCarron, Prescott, and Cook just playing on terrible teams? No, of course they weren't. It takes more than a quarterback. If your argument was based on fact and facts mattered to you, you never would have wrote what you did.

 

 

[PhataLerror 370]

I have zero respect for Phatal and it spans two forums

I'm curious: Which forum, and under what name? I'm on three, and I have no idea who you are elsewhere.

[PhataLerror 370]

Remember stats don't matter when comparing QBs. The top 2 were in the super bowl. Doesn't matter. Look at #16 & 17. Doesn't matter.

It was interesting to see former Super Bowl winners Eli Manning and Joe Flacco ranked behind Smith, and former Super Bowl loser Cam Newton ranked behind them. You don't have to be efficient to win a Super Bowl, or to at least play in it. In fact, you don't even have to be good. You just need a good team. People talk about how you need to have a great quarterback to have a shot at winning the Super Bowl. Eli Manning has two Super Bowl rings. He's never been inside of two tiers from elite at the position.

[PhataLerror 370]

 Personally I am for 80% of Smith at 50% of the cost..frees up money for a better supporting cast

I get the concept. It's what I was saying back when Peyton Manning was a free agent. 80% of Manning at 50% of the cost would have been great. So who fits that description? Take a look at overthecap.com's rankings by annual average salary. Smith is ranked 21st out of the lot. Here's a list of the 20 players that are currently on NFL rosters whose cost is 50% or less of what the Chiefs pay Smith, and who have a career win-loss percentage that is 80% of Smith's (.459 is 80% of Smith's career record of .574) or better:

 

Jimmy Garoppolo

Dak Prescott

Drew Stanton

Teddy Bridgewater

Trevor Siemian

TJ Yates

Nick Foles

Mark Sanchez

Matt Moore

Matt Schaub

Jacoby Brissett

Landry Jones

Chase Daniel

Paxton Lynch

Brian Hoyer

AJ McCarron

Tom Savage

Shaun Hill

Jameis Winston

Derek Carr

 

So on the list, there are four quarterbacks that were regular starters last year. The rest are career backups, with the exception of Teddy Bridgewater, who was unable to play this year, and Matt Schaub and Mark Sanchez, who have started enough games so that people know what they are and what they aren't. How many of these would you trust to lead the Chiefs? Half of these don't have a full season of games to their résumé. None of these current starters have started three seasons' worth of games. Derek Carr is heading into a contract year, Jameis Winston is two years into his rookie contract (although he is eligible for the fifth-year option), Trevor Siemian has two years left on his rookie contract, and Dak Prescott hasn't started enough games to know what he is.

[azchief21 5,278]

Which quarterback drafted during the past four years has a Super Bowl win? Which quarterback drafted during the past four years has even just a post-season win? There are only four quarterbacks drafted since 2013 that have played in the post-season during their NFL career, and then no more than once: Teddy Bridgewater, AJ McCarron, Dak Prescott, and Connor Cook. Not a single playoff win for any of them. Only Prescott's team scored more than 16 points. You may be right about the classes prior to 2013, but the quarterbacks coming out of college as of late have not been difference-makers.

 

The Chiefs are where they are because of past decisions. If one is going to revisit the Chiefs' decision to trade for Alex Smith back in 2013 and try to argue that the Chiefs should have gone after someone else, I have to ask: Who? Or were Bridgewater, AJ McCarron, Prescott, and Cook just playing on terrible teams? No, of course they weren't. It takes more than a quarterback. If your argument was based on fact and facts mattered to you, you never would have wrote what you did.

*Yawn*

[azchief21 5,278]

It was interesting to see former Super Bowl winners Eli Manning and Joe Flacco ranked behind Smith, and former Super Bowl loser Cam Newton ranked behind them. You don't have to be efficient to win a Super Bowl, or to at least play in it. In fact, you don't even have to be good. You just need a good team. People talk about how you need to have a great quarterback to have a shot at winning the Super Bowl. Eli Manning has two Super Bowl rings. He's never been inside of two tiers from elite at the position.

*Yawn*

[West 6,714]

I like the Idea of Smith at a reduced Contract.

 

What I do not like is losing Berry, that should not happen.  He and Justin Houston are the heartbeat of the defense.

 

It is going to take real creativity to get a new starting QB not named Smith or Foles.  I hope Dorsey is exploring every possibility.

 

I also hope he is looking at the O-line and ILB.

 

w

[PhataLerror 370]

He and Justin Houston are the heartbeat of the defense.

Justin Houston's biggest contribution this year was chewing out Travis Kelce after Kelce was an idiot. He hasn't done much on defense for years.

[oldtimer 8,686]

Justin Houston's biggest contribution this year was chewing out Travis Kelce after Kelce was an idiot. He hasn't done much on defense for years.

 

 

so your advocating shedding the roster of Houston or just condemning the man for not recovering from obviously subpar( my opinion) medical treatment?

 

 OR did you say the same thing abut getting rid of Berry when he was going through Cancer Treatment? Because other than emotional support he contributed absolutely nothing  yet collected a hefty pay check same as Houston

[SEMO 6,811]

so your advocating shedding the roster of Houston or just condemning the man for not recovering from obviously subpar( my opinion) medical treatment?

 

 OR did you say the same thing abut getting rid of Berry when he was going through Cancer Treatment? Because other than emotional support he contributed absolutely nothing  yet collected a hefty pay check same as Houston

Save your energy, brother.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

so your advocating shedding the roster of Houston or just condemning the man for not recovering from obviously subpar( my opinion) medical treatment?

 

 OR did you say the same thing abut getting rid of Berry when he was going through Cancer Treatment? Because other than emotional support he contributed absolutely nothing  yet collected a hefty pay check same as Houston

Well you see, if he had played better than Alex Smith would be better.  It's Houstons fault.

[eraser 722]

I hope Justin Houston is back to health in 2017. We have to prepare for the case where he is not as good. I think he can play. Whether the quickness is there or not is unknown. He is the best OLB on the team whether he has the old quickness back or not. The Chiefs need an OLB. Dee Ford will be coming to the end of his rookie contract soon. Tamba Hali is coming to the end of his career. This is just the way it works in the NFL. Teams need to continually revamp their team. I remember when Derrick Thomas passed away. I was in disbelief. Time moves on. Good organizations know this, and know they must continue to change.

[Calichief 3,016]

so your advocating shedding the roster of Houston or just condemning the man for not recovering from obviously subpar( my opinion) medical treatment?

 

OR did you say the same thing abut getting rid of Berry when he was going through Cancer Treatment? Because other than emotional support he contributed absolutely nothing yet collected a hefty pay check same as Houston

This is how he does business. He says thing about Houston and Charles and others like he defends for smith..

[PhataLerror 370]

so your advocating shedding the roster of Houston or just condemning the man for not recovering from obviously subpar( my opinion) medical treatment?

 

 OR did you say the same thing abut getting rid of Berry when he was going through Cancer Treatment? Because other than emotional support he contributed absolutely nothing  yet collected a hefty pay check same as Houston

Well, you could paint me as a black heart, or you could take my comments within the context they were intended.

 

West suggested that Houston and Berry were key to the Chiefs' defense. I've been very consistent in my viewpoint concerning safeties. The fact is that when the front seven is doing their job, no position on the defense is less important than that of the safeties. You don't want someone that is unintelligent or untalented, but you can get, to borrow a phrase, "80% of Eric Berry at 50% of the cost". I wasn't a fan of giving Berry a long-term contract, but in the lack of a suitable replacement, I approved of the move to Franchise Tag him. Doing so again could be very tricky, and at some point, you have to ask whether it's better to just take the third-round compensatory pick in return for him walking out the door. Blowing up the cap for yet one more defensive player being paid for skills that don't warrant the resources spent is not sound business or sound football. If Berry wants to stay in Kansas City, he can take a page from Tom Brady's book and take long-term guarantees in exchange for cash and not condemn the Chiefs to being entrenched as a Wild Card competitor always having the toughest climb throughout the post-season.

 

As for Justin Houston, the quality of his previously administered health care is largely irrelevant. If he can't play, no one can justify the cap room he is eating up. I for one am not OK with a $22 million cap hit when right now the Chiefs have been getting 70% of 2013 Justin Houston about 20% of the time. When a player with a $2 million cap hit doesn't play for a couple years, it's an annoyance. The Chiefs dedicated far more money to Justin Houston, and Houston hasn't been able to play. The result has not been merely annoying, but rather, crippling. The Chiefs lacked adequate depth on the offensive and defensive lines last year because of money that was going to yet another costly player too injured to contribute effectively.

 

I've got an eerie feeling that the Justin Houston deemed to be worth a $101 million contract will never exist again. If the Chiefs have any inkling that this could be the case, now is the time to cut Houston, and have his albatross off of the books by the time the Chiefs hit 2018. That decision needs to be made by March 11, before another $9.5 million in guarantees are locked in for Houston.

[oldtimer 8,686]

I agree with much of what you say..

[West 6,714]

so do I...

 

No one "on the outside" really knows if Houston came back to soon and caused more serious damage.  The fact the dude tried, means alot to me.  He put the team first.  I have no doubt that if he were at 100% the Chiefs would have beaten the Steelers.  However, like most things, woulda, coulda shoulda carries no weight.

 

w

[azchief21 5,278]

Injuries are a tough part of the game especially when you lose one or two or three of the best in the game at their positions. What are we supposed to do, not pay to keep elite players because they might get hurt. Hard to pay them when we are not getting production from them while they are injured.  It's equally difficult to pay someone that is playing but we're not getting production from them on the field. 

[KC Warpaint 3,235]

The PR Damage to the chiefs if they were to cut houston and not attempt to resign berry would doom us more than having

them on the roster. the signal it would send to FA's and agents would make us worse than the browns. nobody would sign with

the chiefs

[West 6,714]

Houston would be a "injury settlement".  He would not be cut.

 

Chiefs need to resign Berry because he is a really good player and a great leader.

 

w

[eraser 722]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/justin-houston-7789/

 

The Chiefs will not move on from Houston in 2017, but they may have the ability to rewrite his contract. The Chiefs can save significant money in 2018, and much more in 2019.

 

Houston may return to his former self, or he could become a decent (not great) player in the future. If his repaired knee does not allow him to be an effective edge rush OLB. Houston became a complete OLB before the injury. So, he still has value, even if he never comes back to his former standard.

[DieHard 2,061]

Houston is fine. I believe (as long as he doesn't over do it in the off season). You can't predict injuries when you sign a player. The status of Houston and Berry are summed up in one play. The deep reception to Brown.

 

Houston got stuck in covering Brown with no help. He almost broke up the pass forty yards down field.

 

Berry had the right side with two deep safeties. He did not see that the best WR in football was alone on a linebacker. He ran towards the left side of the field where the other safety was and left his side open.

 

This play is an example of how I view these two players. Houston can do everything. Berry is great at run support, a great leader and a great athlete. If the ball is tipped, he can get to it and make the catch. But he is not close to the best safety in football in the passing game IMO.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I know the motto is re-sign Berry at all costs, but they can't let that make themselves hostages on his conquest to get paid like a top tier CB.

 

The Chiefs will have to draw the line somewhere, and I don't think Berry has any interest in signing an appropriate deal.