Something Has To Change

[PhataLerror 370]

We've heard several times in the last few years that we are the best or one of the best teams in the league when you look at us top to bottom without factoring in the QB. It speaks volumes that we can't overcome that year after year while teams like Denver and New England have dominated and won Super Bowls with terrible offensive lines and weapons that are proven to be subpar once they leave the team and don't have Brady/manning throwing to them. How many WRs have we watched jump from teams with elite QBs to others and their careers were lost...while their replacement flourished due to the talent of the QB? The QB elevates the team...not the other way around. That's just the way it is in the NFL these days and that's why this team won't be in a Super Bowl with Alex Smith at QB.

You could make an argument that some of the receivers that have played for what you label as "elite" quarterbacks didn't do well playing for other teams. But then, what does it say about Smith when many of his receivers didn't have a career to speak of anywhere? Tom Brady might have made guys like Wes Welker look great (Wes Welker never won a Super Bowl anywhere). Alex Smith on the other hand made it possible for some receivers to have jobs. None of the other teams in the league would hire most of the guys that played for Smith, and the ones who did never got anything out of them. Crabtree is a notable exception, but Crabtree never did anything until he played across from a legitimate WR1, something he himself never was.

 

The whole 'only elite quarterbacks play in the Super Bowl' argument is cyclical: Quarterbacks are elite because they win the Super Bowl, and therefore only elite quarterbacks can win in the Super Bowl.

[PhataLerror 370]

if anything Ben gets more protection, seeing as defenses will have to drop more defenders into coverage at the threat of a long ball...and don't even pretend that Alex doesn't screw up any of those long throws that Ben made on his scoring drives...

Do you have numbers for this? Did the Chiefs send fewer pass rushers against Roethlisberger than they did against the quarterbacks other teams? Do league defenses in general prefer to send fewer pass rushers against Roethlisberger than against the quarterbacks of other teams? I doubt the tape actually backs up your claim. But then, that's how most of the arguments against Smith come to an end.

 

More tape. Less trope.

[KCSLC2008 606]

Those are phatal and kcsl and 63on multiple sites. All 3 of them.

I have repeatedly blamed Smith and the offense for several things this season. I've stated that KC should draft a long term QB. I've never predicted us to win the SB and part of that is our style of playing that emphasizes bad bounces or missed shots on few drives.

 

For every time that I've dismissed stats like yards or how we score (run vs. pass TD), I've criticized our third down conversions and red zone play. For every time I've mentioned the Chargers comeback or game tying/winning drives, I've mentioned the Arizona loss two years ago where there was NO urgency despite NOTHING to lose, the Niners INT to lose the game, etc.

 

I understand that I've stated that we could win with Smith (though I knew we also wouldn't be favorites), but I resent being categorized as part of the three. I don't like extremes like can't, never, always, etc. and Smith has been a target of those, and thus I've been vocal against those, but I think the same for all of our players. I try to avoid extremes.

[PhataLerror 370]

I understand that I've stated that we could win with Smith (though I knew we also wouldn't be favorites), but I resent being categorized as part of the three. I don't like extremes like can't, never, always, etc. and Smith has been a target of those, and thus I've been vocal against those, but I think the same for all of our players. I try to avoid extremes.

For what it's worth, I seldom use "can't", "never", or "always". But people have this insatiable urge to put people in buckets: Themselves and those who think exactly like them in one, and everyone else in another.

 

But I am not surprised. Once people don't have a legitimate argument to back up their opinion, they attack the source of the opposing view. I don't view my opinion as being extreme, so much as it is rare. I can bring a bunch of statistics that show that the things people point to as being the reason behind Smith's lack of success late in the playoffs have no correlation to winning in the first place. I've also seen plenty of film that shows that other quarterbacks do the same exact things Smith does. But people don't get the sense of the importance of correlation, and they go blind when watching film that doesn't continue to prop up their preconceptions.

 

I'm sorry you've been associated with me when you feel that your opinion is moderate and mine being extreme. Then again, if you're not calling for Smith's head right now, you're apparently "anti-Chief".

[KCSLC2008 606]

For what it's worth, I seldom use "can't", "never", or "always". But people have this insatiable urge to put people in buckets: Themselves and those who think exactly like them in one, and everyone else in another.

 

But I am not surprised. Once people don't have a legitimate argument to back up their opinion, they attack the source of the opposing view. I don't view my opinion as being extreme, so much as it is rare. I can bring a bunch of statistics that show that the things people point to as being the reason behind Smith's lack of success late in the playoffs have no correlation to winning in the first place. I've also seen plenty of film that shows that other quarterbacks do the same exact things Smith does. But people don't get the sense of the importance of correlation, and they go blind when watching film that doesn't continue to prop up their preconceptions.

 

I'm sorry you've been associated with me when you feel that your opinion is moderate and mine being extreme. Then again, if you're not calling for Smith's head right now, you're apparently "anti-Chief".

When I said extremes, I was referring to statements. I like to listen to the messages and not pay too much attention to the messenger. I will say, one's history of posting can provide context and everyone has some bias, but if one can't read a post for its message, in its detail, there's not much help in discussion.

 

As far as being associated with you, I don't like being associated with anybody. When somebody does that, I think they're being lazy. I don't associate Calichief with azchief other than 'chief' in their names.

[kcxiv 35]

You could make an argument that some of the receivers that have played for what you label as "elite" quarterbacks didn't do well playing for other teams. But then, what does it say about Smith when many of his receivers didn't have a career to speak of anywhere? Tom Brady might have made guys like Wes Welker look great (Wes Welker never won a Super Bowl anywhere). Alex Smith on the other hand made it possible for some receivers to have jobs. None of the other teams in the league would hire most of the guys that played for Smith, and the ones who did never got anything out of them. Crabtree is a notable exception, but Crabtree never did anything until he played across from a legitimate WR1, something he himself never was.

 

The whole 'only elite quarterbacks play in the Super Bowl' argument is cyclical: Quarterbacks are elite because they win the Super Bowl, and therefore only elite quarterbacks can win in the Super Bowl.

 

Elite QB's make their team better! Elite QB's can take over a game.   Its hard to win the Superbowl only 1 team doe sit a year (captain obvious i know). Matt Ryan completely fell apart at the end, but i still consider him a franchise qb.  I would love to have someone like him.  Someone like him makes it easier to build around. A QB like Alex Smith is harder to build around, because you have to make everythign perfect for him.

 

 

 Hell, i'd be fucking ecstatic  with a QB like Matt Stafford on this team.   I just want QB  that isnt afraid to do that. I want a QB that doesnt  crumble to false pressure.  A QB with some damned pocket presence.  We dont have that.  I dont know how many times i have seen alex pull the ball down and run and there was no pressure at all.    I dont see alex stepping up to take a hit in order to make that play.

[kccrow 529]

Alexpologists will be delusional until the day they die, unfortunately, so I've basically gone the route of starting to ignore them.

 

This team needs to find a true franchise QB to compete. Say what you will about Belichick, he found Tom Brady. He's won alot of games with lesser QBs he's found, including Matt fucking Cassel. Tom Brady is the GOAT, IMO, but that doesn't mean Bill isn't the best coach. Bill gets talent that fits his scheme and fits the personality he looks for. You don't go to 9 Super Bowls just because of a great QB, ask Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, John Elway, etc. You have to have a bit more than that. 

[Calichief 3,016]

Alexpologists will be delusional until the day they die, unfortunately, so I've basically gone the route of starting to ignore them.

 

This team needs to find a true franchise QB to compete. Say what you will about Belichick, he found Tom Brady. He's won alot of games with lesser QBs he's found, including Matt fucking Cassel. Tom Brady is the GOAT, IMO, but that doesn't mean Bill isn't the best coach. Bill gets talent that fits his scheme and fits the personality he looks for. You don't go to 9 Super Bowls just because of a great QB, ask Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, John Elway, etc. You have to have a bit more than that.

But in this case, all you need is a better qb and we are there. Which makes it more depressing because nothing will change.

[PhataLerror 370]

Matt Ryan completely fell apart at the end, but i still consider him a franchise qb.

Matt Ryan outplayed Tom Brady. Bill Belichick outcoached Dan Quinn.

 

Quarterbacking isn't everything.

[West 6,714]

20% of the roster will turn over if history is a guide.

 

Nothing will change is a fallacious argument.

 

The question on the table is CAN WE FIND A BETTER QB for the coming year or Two?

 

I have yet to see a reasonable suggestion except TRADE UP and pray.

 

That's reality.

 

w

[DefensiveMan 758]

20% of the roster will turn over if history is a guide.

 

Nothing will change is a fallacious argument.

 

The question on the table is CAN WE FIND A BETTER QB for the coming year or Two?

 

I have yet to see a reasonable suggestion except TRADE UP and pray.

 

That's reality.

 

w

 

If Alex Smith is the man we need to stack that defense! Houston, can he return to his former self? Ford, is not consistent. I like Charles Harris from Mizzou. We need more pass rushers in a QB driven league. ILB can be filled later in the draft - if DJ and Mauga return that should be plenty of help against the run along with the return of Howard and Bailey. Wilson or Mauga doesn't matter. Need another viable #2 TE option as well since throwing to the TEs is Alex's bread & butter. If JC can't return we need a dynamic RB by day 2. Luxury, has it that we don't have many gaping holes to fill. Dorsey, can continue to stack the defense. We have enough play-makers. With the return of Ehinger that should greatly improve the running game once again. 

[WichitaZRide 321]

Matt Ryan outplayed Tom Brady. Bill Belichick outcoached Dan Quinn.

 

Quarterbacking isn't everything.

Then explain why Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlesberger were the last four QBs standing...it last year why it was Brady, Manning, Newton, and Palmer...

 

It may not be everything...but it's definitely something...

[PhataLerror 370]

If Alex Smith is the man we need to stack that defense! Houston, can he return to his former self? Ford, is not consistent. I like Charles Harris from Mizzou. We need more pass rushers in a QB driven league. ILB can be filled later in the draft - if DJ and Mauga return that should be plenty of help against the run along with the return of Howard and Bailey. Wilson or Mauga doesn't matter. Need another viable #2 TE option as well since throwing to the TEs is Alex's bread & butter. If JC can't return we need a dynamic RB by day 2. Luxury, has it that we don't have many gaping holes to fill. Dorsey, can continue to stack the defense. We have enough play-makers. With the return of Ehinger that should greatly improve the running game once again. 

Maybe the problem isn't Alex Smith. Maybe the problem is in all of the other stuff you listed:

 

• Tying up tens of millions of dollars in cap room for a do-it-all outside linebacker doing it all from the sideline.

• Getting third-round production from a pass rushing linebacker selected in the first round.

• Missing a solid inside linebacker who will be over the hill by the time he gets onto the field again

• Missing a runningback likewise soaking up precious cap room.

 

It didn't seem to me that either the Patriots or the Falcons were missing that many key players. The Steelers weren't either, even after Le'Veon Bell left the game against the Patriots.

[PhataLerror 370]

Matt Ryan outplayed Tom Brady. Bill Belichick outcoached Dan Quinn.

 

Quarterbacking isn't everything.

Then explain why Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlesberger were the last four QBs standing...it last year why it was Brady, Manning, Newton, and Palmer...

It may not be everything...but it's definitely something...

So wait... Newton and Palmer were on your list, and then they mysteriously disappear. Why? Could it be that their teams didn't give their quarterback the requisite support needed by playoff quarterbacks? At least Smith was in the post-season the last two years. Newton's and Palmer's teams were irrelevant long before week 17.

 

Smith was a few dropped passes from being one of the last four quarterbacks standing. Instead, Smith outplayed Roethlisberger (much like Ryan outplayed Brady), but then got hosed by his supporting cast.

[azchief21 5,278]

"Playing this game to not make mistakes is da mistake let them nuts hang blood it's life you live and u learn. Ps dink and dunk football." Marcus Peters after a 12-4 season.

[PhataLerror 370]

"Playing this game to not make mistakes is da mistake let them nuts hang blood it's life you live and u learn. Ps dink and dunk football." Marcus Peters after a 12-4 season.

Well there's a quote taken way out of context. Didn't Marcus Peters tweet this during the Super Bowl? Yes, he did.

 

You just want this to be a shot at Alex Smith.

 

#narrative

[azchief21 5,278]

Well there's a quote taken way out of context. Didn't Marcus Peters tweet this during the Super Bowl? Yes, he did.

 

You just want this to be a shot at Alex Smith.

 

#narrative

*Yawn*

[liquidfriend 1,151]

So wait... Newton and Palmer were on your list, and then they mysteriously disappear. Why? Could it be that their teams didn't give their quarterback the requisite support needed by playoff quarterbacks? At least Smith was in the post-season the last two years. Newton's and Palmer's teams were irrelevant long before week 17.

 

Smith was a few dropped passes from being one of the last four quarterbacks standing. Instead, Smith outplayed Roethlisberger (much like Ryan outplayed Brady), but then got hosed by his supporting cast.

You're doing projecting off 100% pure speculation.

[eraser 722]

I went back to the original tweet. Marcus Peters did not call out his own QB. He was making a statement that may have had a connection to the Chiefs' offense in the past. However, the Chiefs went down field more during the second half of the season. In fact, the reason they lost against Pittsburgh was not because of Andy Reid's play calling. The reason the Chiefs lost to the Steelers was not because of Alex Smith. It was because of lack of execution. Smith dropped a dime on a pass to Travis Kelce, and he dropped the pass. That was a sure touchdown. There were others. The Chiefs did not play a good game. Their defense did not control the Steelers' running game. It was just a bad game, and that may have had to do with the week off. It was not due to the poor play calling. It was not because there weren't any shots down the field.

 

The Falcons lost the game in the second half. I leaned over to my wife at halftime, and said I thought the Patriots would come back, and win the game. Part of that was because her cousin is a Falcon fan, and she was rooting for Atlanta. However, another part of it was the fact the Patriots have a habit of coming back after halftime, and the Falcons have a habit of blowing games. The Falcons barely controlled anything in the second half. They did not run the ball. They dinked, and dunked the ball. They only had one good series.

 

The Chiefs need to do better. Alex Smith is not the long term answer. The Chiefs have been guilty of being too conservative in the past. However, I now see Peters' tweet in a new light.

[eraser 722]

Oh, and Roethlisberger was horrible. He is likely going to retire after this season. He may be washed up. Smith did play better than big Ben. Big Ben was not very good.

[azchief21 5,278]

I went back to the original tweet. Marcus Peters did not call out his own QB. He was making a statement that may have had a connection to the Chiefs' offense in the past. However, the Chiefs went down field more during the second half of the season. In fact, the reason they lost against Pittsburgh was not because of Andy Reid's play calling. The reason the Chiefs lost to the Steelers was not because of Alex Smith. It was because of lack of execution. Smith dropped a dime on a pass to Travis Kelce, and he dropped the pass. That was a sure touchdown. There were others. The Chiefs did not play a good game. Their defense did not control the Steelers' running game. It was just a bad game, and that may have had to do with the week off. It was not due to the poor play calling. It was not because there weren't any shots down the field.

 

The Falcons lost the game in the second half. I leaned over to my wife at halftime, and said I thought the Patriots would come back, and win the game. Part of that was because her cousin is a Falcon fan, and she was rooting for Atlanta. However, another part of it was the fact the Patriots have a habit of coming back after halftime, and the Falcons have a habit of blowing games. The Falcons barely controlled anything in the second half. They did not run the ball. They dinked, and dunked the ball. They only had one good series.

 

The Chiefs need to do better. Alex Smith is not the long term answer. The Chiefs have been guilty of being too conservative in the past. However, I now see Peters' tweet in a new light.

My mistake. How could Peters confuse us with a dink and dunk offense.

[azchief21 5,278]

Oh, and Roethlisberger was horrible. He is likely going to retire after this season. He may be washed up. Smith did play better than big Ben. Big Ben was not very good.

And we can't give credit to our defense for the way they played against Ben because we have to blame them for the loss

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Ben was a hell lot better at home than on the road last season, for whatever reason.

[kccrow 529]

Maybe the problem isn't Alex Smith. Maybe the problem is in all of the other stuff you listed:

 

• Tying up tens of millions of dollars in cap room for a do-it-all outside linebacker doing it all from the sideline.

• Getting third-round production from a pass rushing linebacker selected in the first round.

• Missing a solid inside linebacker who will be over the hill by the time he gets onto the field again

• Missing a runningback likewise soaking up precious cap room.

 

It didn't seem to me that either the Patriots or the Falcons were missing that many key players. The Steelers weren't either, even after Le'Veon Bell left the game against the Patriots.

 

Ah fuck it. I'll not ignore you one last time.  I don't even give a fuck if I get banned. Banning sprees are the reason this board fell apart to begin with.

 

Maybe the problem is Alex Smith cockslobberin' fucks like you apologizing for him and giving this goddamned franchise another reason to continue their exercise in futility over and over again. It's people like you that are the fucking problem. Never expect more if you don't ask for more. Pathetic. Go back to San Francisco. Wash someone's nuts over there. 

[PhataLerror 370]

Ah...

Do you know what the difference between you and I is? Well, yeah, there's decorum. There's also this:

 

You wish NFL teams listened to their fans' hot takes on what to do next. I don't. Quite frankly, the guys who are truly football people wouldn't waste their time on fanboards like this one.